Hey Kioch

[Goreripper]

So you just sit on a massive surplus (I have no problem with a government having a surplus) and do fuck all with it until election time, and then go, "Hey, how about we buy this run-down hospital in Launceston, put $1b into the worst highway in the country, and offer NSW another few billion to bulldoze a superhighway through a World Heritage area"? Economic management is about spending wisely, in the right areas, and at the right time. It's not about suddenly splashing massive sums around at election time.

 

[Priest of Evil]

So you just sit on a massive surplus (I have no problem with a government having a surplus) and do fuck all with it until election time, and then go, "Hey, how about we buy this run-down hospital in Launceston, put $1b into the worst highway in the country, and offer NSW another few billion to bulldoze a superhighway through a World Heritage area"? Economic management is about spending wisely, in the right areas, and at the right time. It's not about suddenly splashing massive sums around at election time.

NAILED! Great example

 

[Stonewall]

Mate, if the gov spent their surplus, as labor will do, do you have any grasp of the massive negative effects that will have on the economy? Being a pinko I would say that you would not have the slightest clue; the scary thing is that there are utopian retards like you who think that the Gov are pigs because they have a massive surplus; when the economy is growing strong Taxation is always greater than speanding, when the economy is in times of hardship then you spend, that is Adam Smith 1890 you fucken morons. Maybe learn something for a change, hey?

I like the way Dan starts a post with "Mate, ..." when he thinks he is about to have the final word.


I also like the scaremongering of the above passage. What exactly are these "massive negative effects"? Or perhaps we aren't permitted to know because it is all above our little heads.


And you are about 100 years off with Adam Smith you "fucken moron". If you want to quote theory at least include titles of work, and other useful information.

Also, Dan, whenever you quote something you sound like a religious fundamentalist, with the difference being you are talking about money.

 

[Goreripper]

I also like the way he just knows that Labor will squander the surplus. It was the previous Labor governments that laid the groundwork for the current boom and surplus. And it's the conservative government in the US, for example, that's blown the surplus there. It's easy for the Liberals to suggest that Labor will blow all the dough, but it was Labor who floated the dollar, Labor who increased taxes, Labor who began the privatisation of government assets, Labor who did all these things that Liberal has taken the credit for. Again, Dan's chosen to ignore all of that for the sake of current conservative dogma. I suggest he, as a student of economics, look at what Keating did as Treasurer and compare it to Howard's record in the same role.

 

[Goreripper]

NAILED! Great example

Oh and I forgot: use it to buy weapons.

 

[Shannow]

Oh and I forgot: use it to buy weapons.

Yeah that $500M on a pair of 36 seat 737s to replace the old 707 was a stroke of fiscally responsible genious (plus the new hangar in Canberra), plus the 60 plus Sydney to Canberra trips in AF1, the majority of which are pilots and cabin staff only.

A true Conservative.

 

[Dän]

If the Government's surplus was speant in the current climate the economy would overheat. Inflation is already at its maximum range in the 2-3% goal region, and so any more Demand side stimulation, which would be caused by an increase in government spending, would have the effect of increasing demand push inflation, suppliers then would not be able to keep up with the excess in Demand, and buyers would, in effect, bid up the price of goods, causing cost pull inflation. You'll find that the idea of spending to come out of a recession, or a time depression on the cycle, into, at times, a defecit, and that during times of economic expansion having a surplus is not unusual. Like I mentioned before it's an idea Adam Smith came up with in 1890's.

The only way you can overcome this is buy offering more incentives on the supply side to increase production; as the economy is at full employment, this is difficult. It doesn't help that Gillard says that Big business' will be hurt if Labor is elected, it is important to have producer confidence high, and to give them incentive to expand operation, not to penalise them for doing this. That is the main reaon why I fear a Labor Gov would have negative effects on the economy, I don't think that they will be able to deal with the economy performing so well, it doesn't happen by accident.

 

[Dän]

Um, so yeh keep bagging me in other threads but when facts are presented you run away. Cool.

 

[KoichCPA]

The goverments surplus IS being spended in the current climate, the current climate of the election.

 

[Bucko]

Quite warm in Canberra today ....

 

[Goreripper]

Um, so yeh keep bagging me in other threads but when facts are presented you run away. Cool.

I'm just taking a leaf out of your book.

 

[Shannow]

The Govt's surplus is excess taxation, that is money that they took from us that was surplus to the needs of Government.

Isn't that a little dishonest ?

Or are the Govt saying that they know what to do with our money and we do not ?

If the Govt reckons that they are better in control and spending of our money than we are, that sounds a little less like "conservative small Govt", and a little more like one of the larger structures that Dan is so against.

 

[Stonewall]

If the Government's surplus was speant in the current climate the economy would overheat. Inflation is already at its maximum range in the 2-3% goal region, and so any more Demand side stimulation, which would be caused by an increase in government spending, would have the effect of increasing demand push inflation, suppliers then would not be able to keep up with the excess in Demand, and buyers would, in effect, bid up the price of goods, causing cost pull inflation. You'll find that the idea of spending to come out of a recession, or a time depression on the cycle, into, at times, a defecit, and that during times of economic expansion having a surplus is not unusual. Like I mentioned before it's an idea Adam Smith came up with in 1890's.

The only way you can overcome this is buy offering more incentives on the supply side to increase production; as the economy is at full employment, this is difficult. It doesn't help that Gillard says that Big business' will be hurt if Labor is elected, it is important to have producer confidence high, and to give them incentive to expand operation, not to penalise them for doing this. That is the main reaon why I fear a Labor Gov would have negative effects on the economy, I don't think that they will be able to deal with the economy performing so well, it doesn't happen by accident.

Is that the Adam Smith of 'The Wealth of Nations' fame?

 

[Shannow]

all this talk of expansion...that IS with finite global resources isn't it ?

How can you have perpetual expansion (to keep fueling the debt based money system) when there's only a single blue marble floating in space to extract perpetual expansion from ?

 

[Southy]

Hope i'm not around when the system collapses

 

[Dän]

I'm just taking a leaf out of your book.

haha ok; I just like it that you run away when you can't debate a fact. I get bagged constantly but at least I front up and present my point.

 

[Dän]

Or are the Govt saying that they know what to do with our money and we do not ?

.

That is the EXACT reason why taxation exists. A gov can do more with say 17 bil that you can with 5k.

If the Gov were to give all the money back that they taxed from us the economy would just collapse; no welfare, services etc... and spending would run a riot.

 

[Dän]

all this talk of expansion...that IS with finite global resources isn't it ?

How can you have perpetual expansion (to keep fueling the debt based money system) when there's only a single blue marble floating in space to extract perpetual expansion from ?

200 years worth or iron ore was just uncovered at roxy downs, once all that goes western enginuity will kick in; humans wont cease to exist when faced with adversity, they will merely find different sources of energy etc... Don't worry the world won't implode on itself.

 

[Dän]

Is that the Adam Smith of 'The Wealth of Nations' fame?

It's just the underlying foundation that free market and liberalist economics is based on, and has been for the last 30-40 years. For all the pinkos to ignore it is funny because the ones who don't understand this premis are the same ones who argue that they are the ones who know how it all works, they want to get to utopia, but don't know how to get there.

 

[Stonewall]

I know what 'The Wealth of Nations' is about. But what I have been kinda driving at is that it was published in the 1770s and Smith himself died 1790s odd... So what exactly was he writing/publishing or as you say coming up with in the 1890s? That is what my question about sources on the previous page was about.