Ideological Relevance of Black Metal

[JontRevolting]

I think i'd personally hate them with a passion.For being lying,deceitful christians,once i found out of course.

 

[Dak]

Yeah i can see it maybe being done completely tongue in cheek like that but not a band taking themselves seriously and trying to spread the good word to all us uncultured heathens by means of black metal, thats just silly.

Mainly because the vocals are generally unintelligable anyway. Ironically this is something that the average Christian would agree with you on. Most Christians would probably say metal and Christianity should have nothing to do with each other, but 40 years ago, they said that about pop/rap/rock as well.

Times change perceptions, and interchangability of thought occurs. Music is a medium, and the idealogies can be interchanged.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

First of all, if it were a mere clone of Darkthrone, I most likely wouldn't be interested in listening to it in the first place. Second of all, no, I wouldn't consider it black metal because ideology is more important than aesthetics in terms of what defines black metal.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

You wouldn't take any music with Christian idealogy seriously, so your opinion on Christian BM is worthless.

Yeah, I'm the one with the lack of reading comprehension. I said nothing of the sort. Black metal aesthetics combined with a Christian ideology is not something I would consider black metal let alone take seriously. I said nothing about my opinion on Christian ideology in metal or music in general.

 

[Dak]

I said nothing of the sort.

Did I say you did?

Black metal aesthetics combined with a Christian ideology is not something I would consider black metal let alone take seriously. I said nothing about my opinion on Christian ideology in metal or music in general.

But you have no reason as to why, other than that's the way you think it is.

 

[unknown]

as a musician, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of ideology determining a music's genre more than the actual sound of the instruments and musical composition.

so if a band that was death metal in sound but had a black metal ideology, they would be black metal?

 

[JontRevolting]

Alot of the old BM bands refer to themselves as Death Metal,it is quite common for death metal to have satanic lyrics,MA,Deicide are two examples...hmm i see where you're going with this,it can get a bit confusing.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Did I say you did?

You wouldn't take any music with Christian idealogy seriously

But you have no reason as to why, other than that's the way you think it is.

I gave several reasons why.

How can you honestly not understand how intensely stupid "Christian black metal" sounds? I could have never listened to black metal in my life and that would still sound like a completely ridiculous and oxymoronic classification.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

as a musician, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of ideology determining a music's genre more than the actual sound of the instruments and musical composition.

so if a band that was death metal in sound but had a black metal ideology, they would be black metal?

They could be considered both. If there are consistant Satanic themes in a band that is death metal in sound, I see no reason why they can't file under both black and death metal.

 

[damnromulans]

First of all, if it were a mere clone of Darkthrone, I most likely wouldn't be interested in listening to it in the first place. Second of all, no, I wouldn't consider it black metal because ideology is more important than aesthetics in terms of what defines black metal.

When you say "aesthetics" do you mean clothes and album art or are you talking about the qualities of the music itself? Because the music is far more important than just ideology. There are non-metal genres that have Satanic members and themes.

 

[unknown]

exactly what Krampus said. There are neo-folk and dark ambient bands with pagan, anti-christian beliefs but I wouldn't label them as black metal just because they share similar beliefs or ideologies

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I'm only saying that ideology is more important than musical aesthetics in black metal. The band obviously has to musically fit under the metal tag before being considered black metal.

I'm talking about the anti-Christian/Satanic themes found in the origins of black metal. I guess you could consider Pagan themes a branch of the ideological foundation of black metal.

 

[unknown]

interesting

 

[Manic Ferocity]

To elaborate, I feel like black metal with Pagan themes serve as an antithesis to Christianity in some way or another, rather than just expressing the themes themselves. I would consider that a form of progression from the blatant Satanic themes of the founders.

 

[Dak]

I think you are blathering on with unsound personal opinions.

Labels help define a genre, but they should not restrict a genre's contents based on the originator's ideals. Black metal by any other name would still sound how it does, and you could put any idealogical content into the lyrics you want without changing what it sounded like.

 

[Einherjar86]

To assume a band can be considered black metal based on mere aesthetics is a very superficial judgment and doing the genre a disservice. I don't think you understand how different black metal is from other metal genres.

First of all, if it were a mere clone of Darkthrone, I most likely wouldn't be interested in listening to it in the first place. Second of all, no, I wouldn't consider it black metal because ideology is more important than aesthetics in terms of what defines black metal.

You're putting the black metal on a pedestal.

Drunkard's right, in my opinion.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I think you are blathering on with unsound personal opinions.

Labels help define a genre, but they should not restrict a genre's contents based on the originator's ideals. Black metal by any other name would still sound how it does, and you could put any idealogical content into the lyrics you want without changing what it sounded like.

What sound are you talking about? Black metal hadn't developed into any sort of specific sound until the second wave. There is a large gap in musical characteristics between Mercyful Fate and Darkthrone yet both are black metal which, again, stresses my point of ideology being more important in defining black metal than musical aesthetics. Black metal doesn't and never did have a specific sound. There are common musical characteristics that bands shared starting with the second wave but the genre has been very musically diverse since its inception. Black metal is an all encompassing ideology of the recurring antithetical themes of Christianity within metal. Saying that there can be Christian black metal solely based on the fact that the band is using musical methods common to black metal is an insult to the genre.

I am putting black metal on a pedestal because it is worthy of that position and probably the greatest overall step in the evolution of metal. Plain and simple.

 

[Einherjar86]

Fair enough.

 

[Dak]

I am putting black metal on a pedestal because it is worthy of that position and probably the greatest overall step in the evolution of metal. Plain and simple.

 

[damnromulans]

To elaborate, I feel like black metal with Pagan themes serve as an antithesis to Christianity in some way or another, rather than just expressing the themes themselves. I would consider that a form of progression from the blatant Satanic themes of the founders.

Hmm, I suppose if I try really hard I can see that. But here's one, how is DSBM relevant to anti-Christianity? Poetic lyrics about being sad set to music with similar applied techniques to other black metal. Would you still consider it to be BM?