Polar oppositionalism in black metal

[Oblivious Maximus]

My initial post was born out of Cryptkeeper and AnonymousNick talking about punk like it only existed in Hot Topic outlets.

I don't believe that punk only exists in Hot Topic outlets. Like you said, there is an underground. BUT, all those Hot Topic bands, like Sum 41 and Green Day, who arn't even punk at all became popular, and thanks to them, the mainstreem public thinks it's punk. I like some punk, mostly old stuff (GG Allin, Sex Pistols, Misfits).

 

[polarity]

Actually I more or less agreed with your analogy. My only gripe is that punk did evolve. Firstly into hardcore and then into more diverse bands like Nation of Ulysses and Fugazi.

Heh, that's true, I love Fugazi . Though, as I said, these bands are the exception.

 

[Astral Poetry]

I recently read an interview with a member of Deathspell Omega, where he brings up some interesting points.

I read that interview today. They have some very interesting views, and they are extremely well spoken. I disagree with their thoughts about some of the older bands of the genre never maturing, as Burzum's peak was/is unmatchable, but all in all it was an excellent interview.

Here's the link for anyone who hasn't read it: http://www.theajnaoffensive.com/NewsDetails.asp?NewsID=36

 

[no country for old wainds]

I'm very impressed.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I know this is one of the more intelligent threads, and I'm only trying to prod discussion...but come on now, that's not fair.

How is that not fair? Black metal is a sonic manifestation of the rejection of jeudeo-christian values and/ or a recognition of various other more organic or traditional values. Its going to be hard to express such concepts well when your mind is still in a "Christain" mindset. It's not all together unfathomable, just a lot less common. You can also of course take the sonic elements of black metal and put a new spirit behind it, but if you ask me that rarley works...

 

[Nico]

Fantastic topic. I wont comment yet because I just woke up, but I like where this is going.

 

[skeptik]

You can't forget some other valid points, however. You can only go so far before you're not even playing Black Metal anymore. Also, you can only innovate so much. When these innovations are set in place, others will follow. Then it won't be very innovative, now will it? You can't forget, as well, that Black Metal was founded on ideals and a basic sound. People liked it. People still like it. As long as there are a handful of capable bands playing the old-school style right (since for me, Black Metal is all about the riffs), I see nothing wrong. Sometimes, innovation can be overrated. Evolution is not always necessary. However, like that member of Deathspell Omega said, when there is no alternative, it's just stagnant. We have those alternatives.

 

[Pessimism]

i love these types of intelligent topics

now i just need to think of something to add.

 

[Erik]

You can't forget some other valid points, however. You can only go so far before you're not even playing Black Metal anymore.

These are my main thoughts when reading a discussion like this -- at a certain point, when black metal, musically or ideologically, has strayed far from what is accepted as the fundamentals of the genre, it might be time to let the "black metal" label go and think of something else, or you'll just end up with excessive confusion and dilution of the genre.

 

[Nico]

Agreed. I have no problems with bands that evolve the genre to such an extent that they create new genres. I dont have problems with bands that leave behind some of the fundementals of black metal if they're furthering the creative elements. As long as they retain their complete beleif in what they're doing, and remain true to their art.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

It's not all together unfathomable, just a lot less common. You can also of course take the sonic elements of black metal and put a new spirit behind it, but if you ask me that rarley works...

Now that's fair.

 

[Freanan]

In my opinion innovation and trueness are not antagonistic goals.
An artist who truely believes in what he does will express his feelings and opinions in his own special way, when he creates his music.
He will use the stylistic devices of Black Metal, like raw production, screaming, and so on, so on the surface the music may sound just as black metal listeners expect it, but it will still be different to other bands and sounds when you only look at the music itself.

The problem is just, that many of todays black metal bands are just bored and boring...

 

[Hell Mike]

It all comes down to feeling, not innovation or image. Some may need to come up with something new to portray these feelings, and some may need image and/or ideology to back it up, but what makes great music is simply that it stirs something up within the listener.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

That's why I love the new Dryados album. It does basically nothing new, but is such a wonderfully written symphonic black album that it makes me feel good when I listen to it. They didn't have to push any envelpes. All they did was write a great album. As long as bands keep writing great albums, innovation can wait.

 

[Wires & Waves]

ahahahahahahahhahaha oh my god i was such a faggot in 2004 as the OP demonstrates spectacularly

 

[unknown]

this was actually a pretty interesting read

 

[Mr_Haze]

ahahahahahahahhahaha oh my god i was such a faggot in 2004 as the OP demonstrates spectacularly

np: cynic - lifeless irony

 

[Wires & Waves]

funnily enough my "polarity" name was a reference to the cynic song veil of maya

 

[Evil?]

Whats with the bumping of ancient threads today?

 

[Alter]

you know yes the scene is dead period. i think metal is in a real emergency. but more on that later


I am a christain and i find no enslavment. I once listioned to black metal but decided that honestly it all(90%) of it eather sounds the same or has virtally no talent. I understand that they love the nature and there satanic indeologies but can they do something else other then play the same tremelo heavy riffs over and over again. At least darkthrone sounds differnt. But bands like kult of azeral and satanic warmaster all sound the same to me.

When it comes to ideologies they become even more fucked up. Nazism. Hitler was a christain. So why are these "satanic" warriors worshiping hitler. And what they dont know is that i bet if they moved to the world war two period of time i dont think they would have a chnace to make there music. or they would find them selfs being in a camp.

And really wat grown man dresses up with paint and a plastic sword ad runs around the forest to take pictures to go onto there (band or personall)myspace........

...but i agreee not all blackmetal is stupid like 98% of the scene.