If you are upset about Opeth signing to Road Runner

[Blackthorned]

For the band - they will reach more people than they ever did and they deserve to be rewarded for their talents. The video is a means to an end of reaching people and attracting them to investigate further.

I really do feel that certain bands attract 'fans' who can't wait to shout "sell out" at the first opportunity - it's like they are primed and ready as soon as a band shows some signs of ambition. It's happended with certain other metal bands and I suspect it always will. Shame.

 

[Manbient]

For the several people to criticize me for not wanting to hang out with ignorant 14 year olds at Opeth shows: The whole thing is that at one point, if you can believe it, opeth was one of those bands you HAD to be quite knowledgable about metal to have even heard of. Now it's just like... anyone with even a casual interest in metal knows who they are. Not a big deal, maybe, but if you saw how the board was in 2001-2002, and keep in mind up to that point Opeth RARELY played live (even a mere 4 years ago, it was not a band talked about that much), you'll see that the quality of the average Opeth fan has dropped significantly. I mean, consider that within the first week of GR's release, there were more reviews for that album on amazon.com than there were TOTAL reviews anywhere for the first 4 Opeth albums up until the release of BWP. Now to me, that's a significant change. All i'm really getting at is that Opeth used to be a special band for those who took the time to really explore music, and as such the fans weren't annoying ignorant goobs. Now, any idiot and his dog could get to know Opeth and never have anything useful to say, like gunhaver. The "good" fans already found the band 5-10 years ago. I guess i do understand that's not possible for the young ones to have done that, but i think it's going to be hard for them to appreciate just what it is Opeth is doing when Opeth is one of their first metal bands.

Whatever, i am whining again. I'll stop.

 

[Blackthorned]

Yes I see your point in part, if I'm honest some of the kids get on my nerves sometimes but what can you do? The simple fact is fans don't own bands because if they did there would only be a small club that nobody could join and that's just not right.
Just be content that you got there before them I suppose, but personally the bottom line is that I have never understood how one fan can be worth less than another. That kind of thought just doesn't seem very pleasant or justifiable at all to me and really, it's been rife in metal circles for far too long.

 

[Jude]

For the several people to criticize me for not wanting to hang out with ignorant 14 year olds at Opeth shows: The whole thing is that at one point, if you can believe it, opeth was one of those bands you HAD to be quite knowledgable about metal to have even heard of. Now it's just like... anyone with even a casual interest in metal knows who they are. Not a big deal, maybe, but if you saw how the board was in 2001-2002, and keep in mind up to that point Opeth RARELY played live (even a mere 4 years ago, it was not a band talked about that much), you'll see that the quality of the average Opeth fan has dropped significantly. I mean, consider that within the first week of GR's release, there were more reviews for that album on amazon.com than there were TOTAL reviews anywhere for the first 4 Opeth albums up until the release of BWP. Now to me, that's a significant change. All i'm really getting at is that Opeth used to be a special band for those who took the time to really explore music, and as such the fans weren't annoying ignorant goobs. Now, any idiot and his dog could get to know Opeth and never have anything useful to say, like gunhaver. The "good" fans already found the band 5-10 years ago. I guess i do understand that's not possible for the young ones to have done that, but i think it's going to be hard for them to appreciate just what it is Opeth is doing when Opeth is one of their first metal bands.

Whatever, i am whining again. I'll stop.

You're an idiotic elitist. How do little kids and casual listeners knowing about Opeth affect YOUR enjoyment of the music? I hate people like you that only listen to music because it's underground and obscure.

 

[Manbient]

You're an idiotic elitist. How do little kids and casual listeners knowing about Opeth affect YOUR enjoyment of the music? I hate people like you that only listen to music because it's underground and obscure.

I already told you how. 14 year old goth chicks at the shows crying for mikael, people on the message board who don't have anything interesting to say about the music or music in general. I like discussing the music i like, and i can't do that anymore here. Speaking of idiocy, what makes you so sure i only listen to music because it is underground and obscure? do you have any idea what other music i like or why i like it? I don't remember telling you anything about that. Perhaps you've been stalking me? A good rule of thumb is to make sure you know what you are talking about before you make a comment.

 

[Kir-ir-Bannog]

I see your point.....in part.

How do you know some of those 14 year olds have not been listening to Opeth since they were 8-10 years old AND are as knowlegeable about the band as you are??? Its possible they had an older brother who introduced them. Believe me, when i got into metal at that age, i didnt stop reading about the metal scene, everything i read and encountered i soaked up. I considered it important to know the facts and broaden my horizons as far as i could. There must be other kids like that, the fact that they act like teenagers (immature etc), does not necessarily mean they know nothing about the band. You could be making assumptions without actually knowing the facts...BUT I am sure there are also many examples of what you're saying being absolutely true.

I think your real problem is probably the immature attitude of most 14 y.o's, not that you are older and thus think you're "a more worthy fan"...am i right?

 

[Manbient]

I think your real problem is probably the immature attitude of most 14 y.o's, not that you are older and thus think you're "a more worthy fan"...am i right?

I think that's a big part of it, yes. But i have a general distaste for the way most people behave at any age. To put it simply, if i can, The type of person who was an Opeth fan in 1999 is so monumentally different from the type of person who is an Opeth fan in september of 2005. I can't describe it in any other way, but i can tell you it's a false assumption that people liked Opeth in 1999 mostly because they were "underground"... that wasn't what it was at all. If that were the case i wouldn't have mailed out upwards of 50 Opeth Cd's to people who i thought might be interested, and i wouldn't have mentioned them at every oppourtunity as a band that needed to be heard. You really just had to know these people and talk to them to understand why the fans seem so different now then they did then. Yes, i know this sounds elitist, yes i know i am an asshole, yes i am wrong, yes whatever else you would like to say about me, but i was there, i watched this happen, and this is how i interpret it. You don't have to agree or believe me, but i believe this topic was an attack on people like me, and i thought i should maybe make a comment about it. None of it really matters, anyway. It's not like i sit there and think about opeth and their fans all day long.

 

[Jude]

I already told you how. 14 year old goth chicks at the shows crying for mikael, people on the message board who don't have anything interesting to say about the music or music in general. I like discussing the music i like, and i can't do that anymore here.

Um...did all the intelligent members leave? That has nothing to do with the band...that has to do with the forum. And if there are 14 year old goths at Opeth shows, TOO BAD. There's no law that you can only go to shows if you've been listening to a band since their first release.

Speaking of idiocy, what makes you so sure i only listen to music because it is underground and obscure?

The fact that you think Opeth is somehow being ruined because people you don't like are listening to their music.

All i'm really getting at is that Opeth used to be a special band for those who took the time to really explore music, and as such the fans weren't annoying ignorant goobs. Now, any idiot and his dog could get to know Opeth and never have anything useful to say, like gunhaver. The "good" fans already found the band 5-10 years ago.

That's some of the most shameless elitism I've ever seen.

 

[Manbient]

Um...did all the intelligent members leave? That has nothing to do with the band...that has to do with the forum. And if there are 14 year old goths at Opeth shows, TOO BAD. There's no law that you can only go to shows if you've been listening to a band since their first release.

Yes, they did. And it is TOO BAD that these people are at the shows, remember? It takes away from my enjoyment of the music, which i think was the question. Does it seem like we are going in circles yet?

elitism is a word thrown about far too often. What happens when an "elitist" comment is truth? is it still a good idea to attach such negative dogma to it? Besides, you know nothing about me. I'm not that simple, neither is my taste in music and the reasons for it, so kindly stop pretending you've got me "figured out" based on a couple comments on one band that i've made.

 

[Jude]

Yes, they did. And it is TOO BAD that these people are at the shows, remember? It takes away from my enjoyment of the music, which i think was the question. Does it seem like we are going in circles yet?

elitism is a word thrown about far too often. What happens when an "elitist" comment is truth? is it still a good idea to attach such negative dogma to it? Besides, you know nothing about me. I'm not that simple, neither is my taste in music and the reasons for it, so kindly stop pretending you've got me "figured out" based on a couple comments on one band that i've made.

If you determine your enjoyment of music by who else listens to it, you just suck.

'Elitism' isn't truth because it's just the stuck-up opinions of people who think they are better than others for some imaginary reason. None of the elitist comments you made were truth at all, they were just you acting like you're a better Opeth fan than other people because you've been listening to them longer, and saying that you enjoy their music less because people you dislike listen to them. Which is ridiculous.

I mean, I love Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, but just because it's become trendy to like them in the past couple years, you don't see me liking them less. I really don't care if trend-hopping kids wear their Stairway to Heaven or Dark Side of the Moon T-shirts, I'm not going to stop wearing my Zeppelin shirts or listening to Another Brick In The Wall just because of that. Same with Opeth. And I really don't care who shows up at a concert as long as the show is good. I go to concerts to hear music, not to hang out with other stuck-up pricks gloating about how we're so sophisticated and cult because we listen to a band nobody has ever heard of.

 

[Manbient]

this being now the 3rd time you've tried to tell me you know the only reason i like the music I do is because it is underground, i refuse to acknowledge anything you have to say. I gave you a chance.

 

[Jude]

this being now the 3rd time you've tried to tell me you know the only reason i like the music I do is because it is underground, i refuse to acknowledge anything you have to say. I gave you a chance.

Right. What's funny is you all but said it yourself.

And it is TOO BAD that these people are at the shows, remember? It takes away from my enjoyment of the music

Speaks for itself.

 

[Mirrored Ghost]

@ Mumblefood...

Instead of complaining (which is almost becoming incessant at this point) about the current state of the board, why don't you start a topic that you think would open a lot of these newer "2005" fans up to intelligent conversation??

Your comments are contributing nothing but adding more arguments to the board. Do we need that??

 

[Manbient]

I'm trying to make people understand where some of us come from when we comment on how "different" everything is these days. It takes at least 2 to argue, remember, and i got flamed pretty hard by about 3 or 4 people for my opinion. Why am i the only one in the wrong?

Anyway, i will make a thread then. I'll see if it is worth the effort. Something tells me it won't be though.

 

[Mirrored Ghost]

I'm trying to make people understand where some of us come from when we comment on how "different" everything is these days. It takes at least 2 to argue, remember, and i got flamed pretty hard by about 3 or 4 people for my opinion. Why am i the only one in the wrong?

Anyway, i will make a thread then. I'll see if it is worth the effort. Something tells me it won't be though.

I understand the thought you are trying to convey. However, this thread (although I disagree with the making of it because this topic has already been beaten to death in many other threads) is actually on the positive side for Opeth. There are quite a few people here yelling too much about "selling out" due to signing with RR. Therefore, I believe that this thread is dedicated to those who think that way.

The reason why I'm calling you out is because you originally stated that you thought this thread was an attack towards you and then you retort by saying not very nice things about new fans. It's not an attack against you. It's about some people in general who are complaining about what label the band signs with. You then took that argument to another level which was not necessary... causing hard feelings.

On the flip side, good for you for starting a thread. I have a thread idea myself. Thinking that it won't be a good effort is being negative and that isn't very healthy.

I don't want to say any more on this because now I will be guilty of arguing too much and I don't feel like doing that. I'd just like to see a more positive vibe around here. After all, this place is what we make of it.

 

[Jude]

I'm trying to make people understand where some of us come from when we comment on how "different" everything is these days. It takes at least 2 to argue, remember, and i got flamed pretty hard by about 3 or 4 people for my opinion. Why am i the only one in the wrong?

Anyway, i will make a thread then. I'll see if it is worth the effort. Something tells me it won't be though.

Good luck, but it will only be a good thread if you get rid of your condescending attitude which implies that new fans are all idiots who don't really appreciate Opeth.

 

[MetalManCPA]

I love Opeth for what they are - great musicians. In my eyes, the record label has nothing to do with Opeth. Sure, some bands can be swayed more than others by label executives, but I believe it's those bands with less talent looking for a payoff that will let that happen. Opeth IS talented, and other than taking in suggestions, I believe what gets put on vinyl/CD's is Opeth and nobody else. Read Mikael's interviews and listen to Opeth's music. They sound as spectacular on GR as on all their other albums.

I'm happy for Opeth. I truly hope they have finally found their well-deserved financial success. How can anybody blame them? And unless my ears are deceiving me, how can anybody accuse them of "selling out"? Unless they paint their faces at their concerts, I just don't see any change in Opeth. They've matured and experimented, but their progression is normal and fresh. They're not hanging on to anything IMHO, they're just moving forward.

 

[the_drip]

The thing is, i take music seriously. It's not really a casual interest. There are people who will consider opeth and System of a Down, or Mudvayne equals. That tells me they aren't really paying attention to what they are listening to. I don't want to discuss music with those kinds of people.

then don't discuss music with them. Its not hard.

 

[DreamingofUr]

For the several people to criticize me for not wanting to hang out with ignorant 14 year olds at Opeth shows: The whole thing is that at one point, if you can believe it, opeth was one of those bands you HAD to be quite knowledgable about metal to have even heard of. Now it's just like... anyone with even a casual interest in metal knows who they are. Not a big deal, maybe, but if you saw how the board was in 2001-2002, and keep in mind up to that point Opeth RARELY played live (even a mere 4 years ago, it was not a band talked about that much), you'll see that the quality of the average Opeth fan has dropped significantly. I mean, consider that within the first week of GR's release, there were more reviews for that album on amazon.com than there were TOTAL reviews anywhere for the first 4 Opeth albums up until the release of BWP. Now to me, that's a significant change. All i'm really getting at is that Opeth used to be a special band for those who took the time to really explore music, and as such the fans weren't annoying ignorant goobs. Now, any idiot and his dog could get to know Opeth and never have anything useful to say, like gunhaver. The "good" fans already found the band 5-10 years ago. I guess i do understand that's not possible for the young ones to have done that, but i think it's going to be hard for them to appreciate just what it is Opeth is doing when Opeth is one of their first metal bands.

Whatever, i am whining again. I'll stop.

I know EXACTLY what you mean and it makes a lot of sense no matter what anybody says. There will still be fans that can truly appreciate them for what they have done but as they get more and more popular much more idiots will come around and ruin something that was once very special. I don't really have a problem with it because I enjoyed it while it lasted.

 

[Austin]

I think that's a big part of it, yes. But i have a general distaste for the way most people behave at any age. To put it simply, if i can, The type of person who was an Opeth fan in 1999 is so monumentally different from the type of person who is an Opeth fan in september of 2005. I can't describe it in any other way, but i can tell you it's a false assumption that people liked Opeth in 1999 mostly because they were "underground"... that wasn't what it was at all. If that were the case i wouldn't have mailed out upwards of 50 Opeth Cd's to people who i thought might be interested, and i wouldn't have mentioned them at every oppourtunity as a band that needed to be heard. You really just had to know these people and talk to them to understand why the fans seem so different now then they did then. Yes, i know this sounds elitist, yes i know i am an asshole, yes i am wrong, yes whatever else you would like to say about me, but i was there, i watched this happen, and this is how i interpret it. You don't have to agree or believe me, but i believe this topic was an attack on people like me, and i thought i should maybe make a comment about it. None of it really matters, anyway. It's not like i sit there and think about opeth and their fans all day long.

WHO FUCKING CARES? What can you enjoy? Pretty much every band is out....certainly Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath or Led Zep or Deep Purple...god knows you can't watch any movies in fear that some "goth 14 yearold" watches and enjoys the same one. Can you breathe oxygen? Because I'm pretty sure they do as well.

It is so fucked up that you are letting these kids pick what you can and cannot enjoy. They have total control over you! It's the anti-trend. All they have to do to spoil any fun you might have is join in.

THEY OWN YOU BABY!