kill crips and tards?

[Mort Divine]

Neil Boortz wrote something in his book "Someone's Gotta Say It" about this topic, and one thing in particular struck me as true.

It isn't a matter of pro-life and pro-choice, it is a matter of pro-choice and anti-choice.

You can be pro-choice and be against abortions. It is really the only respectable way to go if you're against them.

 

[Mort Divine]

Stop whining about semantics. Humans have *evolved* (tongue -> cheek) to a level that is so far beyond animals we exhibit traits never displayed or even hinted at in any animal.

It isn't semantics though - we're not better than any other species on this planet, end of that. Intelligence is really relative to a degree so I dislike saying we're the most intelligent.

 

[AchrisK]

Neil Boortz wrote something in his book "Someone's Gotta Say It" about this topic, and one thing in particular struck me as true.

It isn't a matter of pro-life and pro-choice, it is a matter of pro-choice and anti-choice.

You can be pro-choice and be against abortions. It is really the only respectable way to go if you're against them.

Or is it pro-life and anti-life?

semantics

 

[Mort Divine]

Yes it is, but I don't know any pro-choice people who LIKE abortion, just think that it is a choice that a woman should have as a (err I hate using this term) failsafe in the event of an unexpected/unplanned/young girl who can't take care of kid pregnancy or when having the child could lead to their death. It is a necessary evil of sorts.

Pro-lifers have committed murder in the past over abortion, so that throws the entire thing out of whack. How can one who is pro-life kill? Also the other ultimate enigma is that pro-lifers have this tendency to be supporters of the death penalty.

 

[AchrisK]

It isn't semantics though - we're not better than any other species on this planet, end of that. Intelligence is really relative to a degree so I dislike saying we're the most intelligent.

I didn't say better. We have some horrible traits. You could maybe say that animals are more noble than us, but I think they are just animals, doing what they do.

We are the most intelligent. Have you ever seen a badger invent an engine of any kind? Ever hear an elephant do a blast beat? We win!

 

[Mort Divine]

I didn't say better. We have some horrible traits. You could maybe say that animals are more noble than us, but I think they are just animals, doing what they do.

We are the most intelligent. Have you ever seen a badger invent an engine of any kind? Ever hear an elephant do a blast beat? We win!

I've seen pigs play video games and dolphins are damned smart in their own right.

 

[AchrisK]

Yes it is, but I don't know any pro-choice people who LIKE abortion, just think that it is a choice that a woman should have as a (err I hate using this term) failsafe in the event of an unexpected/unplanned/young girl who can't take care of kid pregnancy or when having the child could lead to their death. It is a necessary evil of sorts.

Pro-lifers have committed murder in the past over abortion, so that throws the entire thing out of whack. How can one who is pro-life kill? Also the other ultimate enigma is that pro-lifers have this tendency to be supporters of the death penalty.

Without getting into the death penalty thing, I mostly agree with you here. But I will say that there is a reason you don't like the word failsafe (which doesn't include the issue of endangering the mother IMO). That's the part of the whole issue I have the biggest problem with, because it IS used that way. It's not planned that way, but it is used that way.

 

[Valerie]

and quoting one of the stupidest bumper stickers I have ever seen.

Stupid because you don't like it?

The only failure in that quote's logic is that it can be applied to anything, murder for example. But concerning this subject, it makes perfect sense, and shouldn't be less valid than some other good point just because it ruffles your feathers.

Anyway, my main point: one or a few people making their conservative opinion about this law over 200 million other people is ridiculous and shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[AchrisK]

Stupid because you don't like it?

The only failure in that quote's logic is that it can be applied to anything, murder for example. But concerning this subject, it makes perfect sense, and shouldn't be less valid than some other good point just because it ruffles your feathers.

Anyway, my main point: one or a few people making their conservative opinion about this law over 200 million other people is ridiculous and shouldn't be tolerated.

So you didn't go back and read my posts then, eh?

 

[Valerie]

Nope, I can't go backwards in any way./ I can't even backspace to delete that slash.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

get rid of them.
just like in 300.
if a child is born sickly, or misshapen. discard them

 

[Valerie]

"Free abortion clinic?! This is blasphemy! This is madness!"
"This is Sp-"
"You know Leonidas, you really need to cut that shit out."

 

[Susperia]

This is just based on my own view of life having intrinsic value, and of babys being alive and fully human at conception.

LOL.

A)First of all, if life is so intrinsically valuable to you ------GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO DO SOMETHIGN WITH IT INSTEAD OF SITTING IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER SCREEN AMUSING YOURSELF TO DEATH.

B) Do you even know when conception happens? It doesn't happen during sex that's for sure. It usually takes from a few hours after intercourse to a few days for conception to occur. So in reality, conception could occur while the mother is taking a dump for all conception cares. And the fucking thing is NOT human at conception. It's a practically microscopic little cell-blob that is "pre-human" if anything. And the mother's immune system will fight to rid of it, because it is a foreign object. That is sometimes why miscarriages happen and she'll get her period a few days later, never knowing she was even pregnant. Never knowing that conception ever even happened. That's nature. Conception is not "holy holy holy godly" in nature. It just happens or it doesn't happen.

You don't understand what a multi-layered and confusing thing pregnancy is. You shoudlnt' be speaking of it.

 

[Susperia]

This is such a difficult thread to respond to, not only because it's a sensitive subject for some to talk about, but because I feel i'm contradicting myself with my answers. Normally (and i dont care who thinks i'm terrible for feeling this way) I'm prolife. It has nothing to do with religion but I just simply don't agree abortion. Unless rape or other terrible circumstances occur and it wasnt your choice to have the baby then ok, but other than that there are plenty ways to protect yourself. However, on this topic i find that my thoughts are conflicting. I feel as if the right thing to do would be to abort the baby that was destined to have a disability. It's not only a burden for the parents, but also a terrible life to lead. It's like your giving someone new legs, but they aren't aloud to walk anyway. Your giving someone a life who isn't able to live it to the fullest.

And if the condom broke or slipped off (which happens A LOT to many people, myself included, once) then we should just pay the penalty? Or, as Dodens would say "you shouldn't have had sex in the first place". ???

A woman has a choice wether to burden herself with bringing another LIFE into the world or not. If she is not ready to take on that RESPONSIBILITY AND SACRIFICE then she SHOULD NOT DO IT.

 

[CAIRATH]

What I said is that humans in general see human life as having intrinsic value, apart from any taught religious bias. Cookie has explained that away in true evolutionary form, but I disagree. We are so far from animals that it makes me cringe when people say humans are just another animal species. Animals don't even show signs of the behaviors of humans. Mass murder of your own kind. The creative drive which has given us music, painting, sculpture, writing and a myriad of other things classified and not. Hate. Evil. Love. Surrealism! Yeah, we act like animals sometimes and can be really stupid. But even our stupidity reveals us as entirely different from all animals.

The importance that is placed upon human life comes entirely from Judeo-Christian values. It is not something that people are born with at all. You only have to look at some of the different cultures (such as areas of the globe that are predominantly Hindu or Buddhist) to see that the idea that human beings are above everything else on the planet is not universal or "natural". It is an idea that is imprinted upon us by our own society and mainly by the Judeo-Christian doctrine which obviously holds mankind in an especially high regard. This belief has helped shape western moral constructs even in countries that nowadays are much more secular so it really doesn't apply just to religious people at all. It's simply an idea that people in most western countries are spoonfed with. That doesn't make it right or logical, however.

A human zygote which is nothing more than a lump of cells (with no central nervous system, no brain and therefor no sentience) already has more rights and is deemed more important than a full grown specimin of any other species (which in many cases is very much sentient and in some cases even fairly intelligent and capable of experiencing complex emotions just like humans). That tiny lump of cells has more rights than, say, a cow. The cow that spends her entire sentient life standing inside a 1x2 meter box in her own filth until we deem it necessary to kill her off so she might provide us with meat. That's fine. But if you kill that lump of cells (which incidentally for the first few weeks is basically the same as that of any other mammal aside from the chromosome count) you've suddenly committed murder.

That is the arrogance and the hypocrisy of the society we live in.

And yes you can argue all you want about how humans make beautiful music and whatever other great things we have accomplished. But those are also the same humans who are currently busy depleting the planet which we live on of its natural resources and destroying its eco system. Something very few other species on this planet can be accused of. Not to mention the various genocides and other indignities that mankind has orchestrated over the centuries. If you're going to judge a species' worth on its accomplishments you need to calculate it per saldo and not just look at the positives. And per saldo I don't think humanity comes off all that well. Certainly not well enough to feel superior over anything else on this planet. The fact that we have attained a level of self-conscience doesn't change any of that whatsoever.

 

[Susperia]

A fetus isn't a human. It is a parasite that feeds off a human. It is a potential being.

A parasite huh?

 

[AchrisK]

A woman has a choice wether to burden herself with bringing another LIFE into the world or not. If she is not ready to take on that RESPONSIBILITY AND SACRIFICE then she SHOULD NOT DO IT.

I agree, she should not "do it". She should keep her pants on. That's what the family is designed for: shared responsibility of raising children. And within a healthy family unit is where kids thrive.

 

[The Ozzman]

A parasite huh?

parasite: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Sounds like what a fetus is, doesn't it?

 

[A8]

And if the condom broke or slipped off (which happens A LOT to many people, myself included, once) then we should just pay the penalty? Or, as Dodens would say "you shouldn't have had sex in the first place". ???

A woman has a choice wether to burden herself with bringing another LIFE into the world or not. If she is not ready to take on that RESPONSIBILITY AND SACRIFICE then she SHOULD NOT DO IT.

dont attack me
It's my own opinion and you don't have to agree with it. You can voice your own and i respect that, but don't attack my values. Thank you

 

[AchrisK]

A)First of all, if life is so intrinsically valuable to you ------GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO DO SOMETHIGN WITH IT INSTEAD OF SITTING IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER SCREEN AMUSING YOURSELF TO DEATH.

Why even type this?

B) Do you even know when conception happens? It doesn't happen during sex that's for sure. It usually takes from a few hours after intercourse to a few days for conception to occur. So in reality, conception could occur while the mother is taking a dump for all conception cares. And the fucking thing is NOT human at conception. It's a practically microscopic little cell-blob that is "pre-human" if anything. And the mother's immune system will fight to rid of it, because it is a foreign object. That is sometimes why miscarriages happen and she'll get her period a few days later, never knowing she was even pregnant. Never knowing that conception ever even happened. That's nature. Conception is not "holy holy holy godly" in nature. It just happens or it doesn't happen.

You don't understand what a multi-layered and confusing thing pregnancy is. You shoudlnt' be speaking of it.

None of this matters. Fertilized eggs become humans. That's my point. Once it happens, you are dealing with a human life. No it doesn't look human, but it's not going to be anything else if it is allowed to exist. You can call it what you want.