Let's make me a good bassist... tips?
- Thread starter (__Joonas__)
- Start date
Been progressing a lot...
I found a book, Music Theory for the Bassist, or something like that, by Ariane Cap, she has a youtube channel also... one of the few existing books that have bass as approach. Gone thru intervals at this point. Learned to think where to jump from one note to the next if intending to sound tense, warm, frictionate, open etc.
Changed from using pick primarily to using fingers primarily! This was a huge and unexpected change. Been a sworn pick user, cos my nervous system developed for that with guitar. But I got sick as fuck for all the people going 'real bassists don't use a pick.' And it feels more intimate and more challenging in an strange way, it's also possible to to certain things with chords/intervals... I use whichever the band in question does with bassist. When it comes to sheer speed tho I still laser thru with a pick faster.
Played over about 100 albums at this point. Gotta fix my fucking amp soon to get access to albums on youtube.
I've developed a playing position that feels quite nice and fluid.
My tenosynovitis is haunting still, my current job is so fucking strainful on the wrists. Can never get rest. It could all end any day.
But I feel I could play bass without my left thumb if it came to it, just not optimal but still possible to an extent. Also trying my best to not use the left thumb at work whenever possible. I lift iron all day with speed, so... trying to eat D-vitamin and calcium and maybe use ice therapy...
QUESTION of the day, this is something I find interesting...
The bass itself sounds gay when we go over 12th fret. Sometimes you go there in some songs, the flutey tone comes into play at some fast sections. Musically it's a challenge to create dark sounding things with gay sounds. It's not enough just to use minor scale notes, you need to think what kinds of licks sound dark. Bass in itself sounds warm, anything you play down there sounds dark, but then anything you play up the strings and frets tends to sound hippy and out of place in any dark or cold musical environment.
I also got my mom to knot for me a bassist's wrist band with a Type O Negative colour theme, hehe. It's hard to find these things online, one I have is black&white with sports sponsors and all.
I found a book, Music Theory for the Bassist, or something like that, by Ariane Cap, she has a youtube channel also... one of the few existing books that have bass as approach. Gone thru intervals at this point. Learned to think where to jump from one note to the next if intending to sound tense, warm, frictionate, open etc.
Changed from using pick primarily to using fingers primarily! This was a huge and unexpected change. Been a sworn pick user, cos my nervous system developed for that with guitar. But I got sick as fuck for all the people going 'real bassists don't use a pick.' And it feels more intimate and more challenging in an strange way, it's also possible to to certain things with chords/intervals... I use whichever the band in question does with bassist. When it comes to sheer speed tho I still laser thru with a pick faster.
Played over about 100 albums at this point. Gotta fix my fucking amp soon to get access to albums on youtube.
I've developed a playing position that feels quite nice and fluid.
My tenosynovitis is haunting still, my current job is so fucking strainful on the wrists. Can never get rest. It could all end any day.
But I feel I could play bass without my left thumb if it came to it, just not optimal but still possible to an extent. Also trying my best to not use the left thumb at work whenever possible. I lift iron all day with speed, so... trying to eat D-vitamin and calcium and maybe use ice therapy...QUESTION of the day, this is something I find interesting...
The bass itself sounds gay when we go over 12th fret. Sometimes you go there in some songs, the flutey tone comes into play at some fast sections. Musically it's a challenge to create dark sounding things with gay sounds. It's not enough just to use minor scale notes, you need to think what kinds of licks sound dark. Bass in itself sounds warm, anything you play down there sounds dark, but then anything you play up the strings and frets tends to sound hippy and out of place in any dark or cold musical environment.
I also got my mom to knot for me a bassist's wrist band with a Type O Negative colour theme, hehe. It's hard to find these things online, one I have is black&white with sports sponsors and all.
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I've played over almost all my physical CD:s, just nine left. Got my player fixed so then I can connect the sound to youtube and access hundreds more. I've been practicing intervals, triad chords and their inversions. I intend to have the book practiced down and understanding how to tool around with the knowledge as soon as I can, I have about an hour per day playing and a few hours a week reading.
CliffBurton
Member
J00nasssss I thought you were into keyboards and raw veganism.
Play root notes on 1beat and keep in time with drums, sometimes play 5ths on the 3rd beat, maybe the 2nd if you feeling peppy. glhf
Play root notes on 1beat and keep in time with drums, sometimes play 5ths on the 3rd beat, maybe the 2nd if you feeling peppy. glhf
Well I think the reason why bass is often subjugated into a supporting role in metal to provide heaviness is: the character of the instrument is warm and soft, in a genre where (in most subgenres, not all) you desire the instruments to sound cold, sharp. Maybe if you had a bass guitar with very long, thin strings, you could use it more adventurously...
I think to say "just play root then 5th" etc is usually a guitarist enslaving someone below them with ego to make clear who is the songwriter. It's also a humbling guideline to restrict tasteless improvisation, and reminding of the importance of rhythm and groove, which is good. To adventure in proud manner while having a sense of spontaneous articulation one needs to have quite good skills as bassist.
Here is a wonderful example of the bass as "the instrument you can't hear, but you can feel."
I think to say "just play root then 5th" etc is usually a guitarist enslaving someone below them with ego to make clear who is the songwriter. It's also a humbling guideline to restrict tasteless improvisation, and reminding of the importance of rhythm and groove, which is good. To adventure in proud manner while having a sense of spontaneous articulation one needs to have quite good skills as bassist.
Here is a wonderful example of the bass as "the instrument you can't hear, but you can feel."
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Inceptionist
It's Not My Funeral
- Jan 19, 2013
- 292
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Man, is this off their most recent album? Sad where they are now... also almost all of this song the bass is following the root, but that’s what in flames has always done anyway
In Flames is kinda tricky on bass cos it's constant mash of low riffs. Takes a precise ear. They lost their primitive anger after Come Clarity.
I've just tried playing thru the whole discography of Dark Tranquillity, all except a few older albums where the bass is inaudible... They're great fun to play on bass. Good band that remains quite unknown as they don't have those breakthru hits. Every album sounds very similar and very similar style constantly thru almost every song, but it's quality stuff. Forward Momentum was one of the most memorable songs of last year, gripping atmosphere, wildly epic solo, and the song ends in a chilling climax.
2:50 -> the singer jumps in the crowd surfing and keeps singing. Great trust and attitude to fans. (Understandably it would not be wise for every band to pull such a move, as each band has their distinct type of fans.) Cool song too. Good thing the fans guided him back to the stage, it would've been funny to see him drift out of sight and range of wireless mic.
I've just tried playing thru the whole discography of Dark Tranquillity, all except a few older albums where the bass is inaudible... They're great fun to play on bass. Good band that remains quite unknown as they don't have those breakthru hits. Every album sounds very similar and very similar style constantly thru almost every song, but it's quality stuff. Forward Momentum was one of the most memorable songs of last year, gripping atmosphere, wildly epic solo, and the song ends in a chilling climax.
2:50 -> the singer jumps in the crowd surfing and keeps singing. Great trust and attitude to fans. (Understandably it would not be wise for every band to pull such a move, as each band has their distinct type of fans.) Cool song too. Good thing the fans guided him back to the stage, it would've been funny to see him drift out of sight and range of wireless mic.
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The most recent albums I've played after running out of physical CDs:
Akira Yamaoka – Guadalajara Live (video, not album)
Amon Amarth – Surtur Rising
Astarot – Echoes of Mystical Forest
Dark Tranquillity – Atoma
Dark Tranquillity – Character
Dark Tranquillity – Construct
Dark Tranquillity – Damage Done
Dark Tranquillity – Haven
Dark Tranquillity – Projector
Dark Tranquillity – We Are The Void
In Flames – Sounds Of A Playground Fading
Make Them Suffer – Neverbloom
Make Them Suffer – Old Souls
Make Them Suffer – Worlds Apart
Raventale – Mortal Aspirations
Rob Zombie – Hellbilly Deluxe
Satyricon – Now, Diabolical
Savatage – Hall of the Mountain King
Trees of Eternity – Hour of the Nightingale
Type O Negative – Bloody Kisses
Yngwie Malmsteen – Trilogy
Today while playing a Make Them Suffer album I figured they weren't the traditional B minor scale I use as foundation, but their notes were C minor. Btw with this band I also figured some sections need you to pluck with three fingers, tips only, while pressing your palm against the wood. Don't know what technique that's called, but felt natural to me, cos it was some rapid tempo.
Akira Yamaoka – Guadalajara Live (video, not album)
Amon Amarth – Surtur Rising
Astarot – Echoes of Mystical Forest
Dark Tranquillity – Atoma
Dark Tranquillity – Character
Dark Tranquillity – Construct
Dark Tranquillity – Damage Done
Dark Tranquillity – Haven
Dark Tranquillity – Projector
Dark Tranquillity – We Are The Void
In Flames – Sounds Of A Playground Fading
Make Them Suffer – Neverbloom
Make Them Suffer – Old Souls
Make Them Suffer – Worlds Apart
Raventale – Mortal Aspirations
Rob Zombie – Hellbilly Deluxe
Satyricon – Now, Diabolical
Savatage – Hall of the Mountain King
Trees of Eternity – Hour of the Nightingale
Type O Negative – Bloody Kisses
Yngwie Malmsteen – Trilogy
Today while playing a Make Them Suffer album I figured they weren't the traditional B minor scale I use as foundation, but their notes were C minor. Btw with this band I also figured some sections need you to pluck with three fingers, tips only, while pressing your palm against the wood. Don't know what technique that's called, but felt natural to me, cos it was some rapid tempo.
Great CD for ear training on bass, it's instrumental and sounds+mixing is dandy... Clear sounds means less challenge, of course.
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I twitched the amp setup again, this time... 0 bass, 10 mid, 0 treble. Nice, clear and crispy for room playing. I usually keep the bass around 3 and altering mid and treble between 4-8.
I now started playing stuff over drum jam. Trying to figure out some stuff.
I now started playing stuff over drum jam. Trying to figure out some stuff.
Ear training issue...
I'm not sure if listening to bass in music is the best way to train ear for bass... because it boils down to playing what you hear the guitars or keyboards play an octave lower. If you wanna learn to play in a band, that is, and not just learn to play ready songs. So would you attempt straight to figure the octave lower note of the guitars, or first find the guitar pitch and then jump the octave lower?
Today I tried this note audio practice, I tried to first find the lower octave of the note being played, and many times I found a note that was in between, maybe my ears made a compromise or it's the softer dissonance in that interval distance...
I'm not sure if listening to bass in music is the best way to train ear for bass... because it boils down to playing what you hear the guitars or keyboards play an octave lower. If you wanna learn to play in a band, that is, and not just learn to play ready songs. So would you attempt straight to figure the octave lower note of the guitars, or first find the guitar pitch and then jump the octave lower?
Today I tried this note audio practice, I tried to first find the lower octave of the note being played, and many times I found a note that was in between, maybe my ears made a compromise or it's the softer dissonance in that interval distance...
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ESA1996
Active Member
Most of the time playing the root note of whatever chord is currently being played is a good idea. If there is no evident root note the bass will most of the time play whatever the guitars play, just in a lower octave. Some bassists of course do some more experimental stuff but I don't think there's any tricks into learning those apart from being really damn good in listening to what they are playing.
I've been investing lots of time for slowly trying to crack the mystery of the Cycle of Fifths. So confusing. But slowly you start connecting tiny bits. Trying to grasp logical understanding of it and how to apply it's wisdom quickly to practice. It's like prying open a coconut with your bare fingertips. But I believe it holds a useful power and insight.
I can't believe it. I was going thru modes, comparing how they feel... and I combined two aspects I liked from two different modes, and came up with a scale that doesn't seem to exist. Did some searching and only found it appearing once as a certain mode of a certain scale. Can this be possible? Surely all possible scales have been invented? Or is there a theory limitation why certain combinations cannot work?
Oh I found a similar one, Javaneese / Pelog scale, some Indonesian stuff. It's also a phrygian mode of Melodic Minor, and I think a mixolydian mode of Hindu...
Anyway, it's:
Root – minor 2nd – minor 3rd – perfect 4th – perfect 5th – major 6th – minor 7th
I tried to come up with a 7 note scale that I'd find the most interesting to use and came up with this.
Oh I found a similar one, Javaneese / Pelog scale, some Indonesian stuff. It's also a phrygian mode of Melodic Minor, and I think a mixolydian mode of Hindu...
Anyway, it's:
Root – minor 2nd – minor 3rd – perfect 4th – perfect 5th – major 6th – minor 7th
I tried to come up with a 7 note scale that I'd find the most interesting to use and came up with this.
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ESA1996
Active Member
There's no real limitations to what can work and what can not. Certain scales are just easier to make work (Minor and Major are used for that reason). Some scales may be so odd that no one has bothered to name them, or, if they have, the names haven't become commonly used (AFAIK all the modes of melodic minor and all but one mode of harmonic minor belong in this category (5th mode of harmonic minor / phygrian dominant)).
The scale you came up with is indeed the 2nd mode of melodic minor (I'd advise you to call scales like these as Nth mode of X. I'm not quite sure if it's technically wrong to call them phygrian mode of X etc. but I think it might be. I can't remember hearing such names being used at least). I've never seen it used anywhere, but, considering it is a mode of melodic minor which is a very well known scale if not the most used one, I'm sure it's been used by someone somewhere.
The scale you came up with is indeed the 2nd mode of melodic minor (I'd advise you to call scales like these as Nth mode of X. I'm not quite sure if it's technically wrong to call them phygrian mode of X etc. but I think it might be. I can't remember hearing such names being used at least). I've never seen it used anywhere, but, considering it is a mode of melodic minor which is a very well known scale if not the most used one, I'm sure it's been used by someone somewhere.
Well apparently Indonesian people used it in their religious seremonies to connect with Buddha or something.
I now want to get into sheet music... reading and writing. And doing it for all instruments.
I now want to get into sheet music... reading and writing. And doing it for all instruments.
I need some music program where I can try drum beats... and would be nice if I could write all the stuff to it. Been doing it on paper. Tux Guitar wouldn't open on my laptop.
ESA1996
Active Member
Sounds very strange as I've never had any problems with TG on any computer I've tried it with. Did it give any error messages? They would probably help in solving the problem.
If you're using Windows you need to have Java Runtime installed on your computer for TG to work. You can get that here: https://java.com/en/download/
If you have a Mac or Linux you need to make sure you've got the right version of TG. You can get different versions of TG here: http://www.tuxguitar.com.ar/download.html
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