Let's make me a good bassist... tips?

[ESA1996]

Great routine today... After playing over an album I sat down with 80 bpm metronome, went thru both the minor scales I know in every different way I could think of. Even spelling out the names of tones in modes while proceeding with only every second beat. Then I doubled speed in the 80 bpm going back and forth the fretboard in this X-motion, advancing one fret at a time (sweep picking), such as:

-1-------------4-2-------------5-3-------------6-----
---2---------3-----3---------4-----4---------5-------
-----3-----2---------4-----3---------5-----4---------
-------4-1-------------5-2-------------6-3-----------

Btw now I understand the reason why bass fretboard is easier to memorize than guitar is not just the fact it's got less strings, but because it's symmetrical, while the guitar has that one odd string due to the E-F / B-C rule which means one has to learn so frigging many shapes for the chords on guitar.

Yesterday I played over Behemoth - The Apostasy, couldn't tell much more than each song using one note more than others (is that what they call the key?)

Today played over Swallow the Sun - Emerald Forest and the Blackbird, obviously a dynamic and memorable album that covered the whole bass fretboard pretty much.

I actually used to play that same X shape pattern on guitar except that with 6 strings I always skipped the A and B strings, otherwise it was identical.

The root note is usually the most used note in a song so if there were say, more B notes than anything else, the song will most likely be in B something. Being Behemoth I'd imagine it would be B minor or perhaps some diminished scale.

B Diminished: B C# D E F G G# A#

As you can see the diminished scale have nothing in common with the normal major/minor scales. They are just alternating between fulltone, semitone, fulltone, semitone... They even have 8 notes per octave compared to the modal 7. A diminished scale mode exists where the thing starts with a semitone instead of a full tone so it would go B C D D# F F# G# A.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Did the same shit today. First played over album Swallow the Sun - Hope, then the routine I did yesterday, only today I practiced the modes also starting from the 2nd string. (Is this wrong? Also, can you use open notes in modes?) At least it helps to memorize the notes from up also. When going thru the modes and spelling the note names I play every second beat. Needed several attempts always to get it right.

I raised the metronome from 80 to 90 bpm. In the last X-figure practice when playing 2 notes /beat it was almost too much; one definitely doesn't develop so rapidly.

This song was pretty epic, it seemed to use B, G and A from many places on the fretboard. The enchanting female choir melody (starting 4:20) I even mimiced from the top of the fretboard - the bass is playing it at some points such as 5:55 from up in the middle. Maybe it's their other guitar that uses less distortion, playing on lower strings closer to the right, or maybe it's the bass, hard to say.

 

[ESA1996]

Did the same shit today. First played over album Swallow the Sun - Hope, then the routine I did yesterday, only today I practiced the modes also starting from the 2nd string. (Is this wrong? Also, can you use open notes in modes?) At least it helps to memorize the notes from up also. When going thru the modes and spelling the note names I play every second beat. Needed several attempts always to get it right.

I raised the metronome from 80 to 90 bpm. In the last X-figure practice when playing 2 notes /beat it was almost too much; one definitely doesn't develop so rapidly.

This song was pretty epic, it seemed to use B, G and A from many places on the fretboard. The enchanting female choir melody (starting 4:20) I even mimiced from the top of the fretboard - the bass is playing it at some points such as 5:55 from up in the middle. Maybe it's their other guitar that uses less distortion, playing on lower strings closer to the right, or maybe it's the bass, hard to say.

The modes, while not as commonly used as major/minor, are good to know all over the fret board just like the major and minor scales (Though I must admit I only know G major and C major by heart as they are the same as E and A minor). TLDR: No matter where you start practicing a scale it is never wrong as long as the notes you play belong in said scale. There's nothing wrong with playing open strings either.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Noticing I haven't memorized the upper notes much, I seem to have focused on the root, always telling the higher string notes deriving thru a root... so today I started spelling over modes starting from the top. Maybe someday every note can come instantly, like the ones that are now firm in the memory...

Question of the day: as I'm practicing in B tuning, will it be difficult to transpose the note shape of the fretboard in my mind if I want to play in E on another bass?

 

[ESA1996]

If you tune up to E and wish to play in B minor it will be a challenge but if you play in E minor the fret positions will be the exact same as B minor in B tuning.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Oh yeah. Then there's of course the possibility that I have my shit set in B, while a band I play might have their songs designed for E.

 

[ESA1996]

Oh yeah. Then there's of course the possibility that I have my shit set in B, while a band I play might have their songs designed for E.

That's not too hard. E minor in B tuning is the same as A minor in E tuning. The only difference is that the second note of the scale is dropped by one semitone.

B minor:
B C# D E F# G A

E minor:
E F# G A B C D

In this case said semitone would be the lowering of C# to a C. Otherwise the scales are identical.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

The natural minor shape is very easy to memorize, it's quite linear, but when you throw one note a half step away, like say the harmonic minor, the shape is all around the place, takes a bit more work to instantly tell the pattern with your eyes.

About drums:

There are sections in songs where pedal drum kicks faster than a guitar riff proceeds. Is there a general rule or do I juts have to listen to tell whether I play as fast as the pedals or as slow as the guitars?

Then there are rhythmic changes where drums suddenly do unexpected things during a stable guitar presence (tempo), should I then stay in the timing followed by guitars, or jump in to do the unexpected fills with drums?

They say a bassist has to lay the rhythmic foundation, but sometimes it seems unclear whether it's the guitars or drums that form the speed of the song.

 

[ESA1996]

The natural minor shape is very easy to memorize, it's quite linear, but when you throw one note a half step away, like say the harmonic minor, the shape is all around the place, takes a bit more work to instantly tell the pattern with your eyes.

About drums:

There are sections in songs where pedal drum kicks faster than a guitar riff proceeds. Is there a general rule or do I juts have to listen to tell whether I play as fast as the pedals or as slow as the guitars?

Then there are rhythmic changes where drums suddenly do unexpected things during a stable guitar presence (tempo), should I then stay in the timing followed by guitars, or jump in to do the unexpected fills with drums?

They say a bassist has to lay the rhythmic foundation, but sometimes it seems unclear whether it's the guitars or drums that form the speed of the song.

Totally agree about the scale shapes.

If the guitars play a riff in 8th notes, and the drums play 16th note doublebass the bass will very likely play 8th notes alongside the guitars. I don't think there're any official rules to it but as a general rule I'd say that the bass plays the root note of a chord at the same speed that the rhythm guitars play whatever they are playing. So if the rhythm guitars play 8th notes in a riff that has an underlying chord progression of Bm, G, A, Bm, the bass will play the root notes of the chord progression at 8th notes. If the riff at hand has no chord progression and thus no root note the bass will often double the rhythm guitars (One octave lower of course, being a bass). Also, for parts where the rhythm guitars play long chords the bass will often switch to following the drums a bit more. This usually results in it playing either 8th notes, quarter notes or just directly copying the drum track.

Guitar Hero bass FC videos are a surprisingly good source for answers on your question. They even have the bass track brought up in the mix so you can hear it much better. Done With Everything, Die for Nothing and If You Want Peace, Prepare for War GH Bass videos can both be found from YouTube.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Yeah that's how I sense it too. Well, supposedly the guitars try to lock in with the drums as well to an extent. There are sections however where drums do their thing while guitars do something else, that's when I've usually tried to stay with the drums, just playing the root note of the guitars. There's some room for artistic freedom it seems, not carved in stone as official rule. I find it's a dig sometimes to uncover from the messy sections should I join hands with drums or guitars when it comes to rhythm which they tell is the bassists utmost job or else he's ditched. The number one thing every bass instructor says is forget about showing off and instead make rhythm keeping your main job, as it's what 90-something % of bands want from a bassist.

I'm dying, this sounds too good... blast it so fucking loud, with coffee... 1:10-1:40... 4:30-5:30 (this section starts with bass, but leads to greatness). This band has so many earth shattering brilliant tracks, this isn't even among the best.



This was sheer fun to play on bass. I think it focused on notes G, A, B. Song's named after the artist's studio where Bodom recorded Follow the Reaper.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

About fingers vs pick:

I play with a pick, that's what I got used to playing guitar, and that's where I excel better when playing the stuff I intend to play. There's this stigma however that pick user aren't real bassists or whatever. I don't want people to look at me like I'm a cheater or something. Picks seem to diminish the artistic value of a bassist. Some music would be better with a softer touch, some sounds good with the sharper edge.

But I come to the conclusion why not just stick to the pick, as there's too little time in life for everything. If finger technique is dragging behind, should I learn that also anyways or just forget about it? There is a looming danger of not becoming a solid musician at all if it gets overwhelming. I'd rather be a good bassist with a pick than never be any kind of musician at all due to unrealistic aspirations.

If I could choose, yeah I'd probably be better with fingers, since it appears to be the sexy thing. However, I do not intend to slap or pop. Just metal music and other darkish music. (That's the other thing, deciding what style to play, or risk never becoming anything when trying to take everything into consideration.) Sure the finger touch is more sensual for the bass and it looks rad when the fingers are nimbling all over the strings. Personally I have no problem with being a picker tho. I'm simply more precise with a pick and it seems to suit me. I find it hard to go index-middle-index-middle with right hand while moving with left hand, not sure if I want to take a huge step back just to learn to play with fingers...

If someone has a strong opinion on this speak now or forever be silent.

 

[ESA1996]

About fingers vs pick:

I play with a pick, that's what I got used to playing guitar, and that's where I excel better when playing the stuff I intend to play. There's this stigma however that pick user aren't real bassists or whatever. I don't want people to look at me like I'm a cheater or something. Picks seem to diminish the artistic value of a bassist. Some music would be better with a softer touch, some sounds good with the sharper edge.

But I come to the conclusion why not just stick to the pick, as there's too little time in life for everything. If finger technique is dragging behind, should I learn that also anyways or just forget about it? There is a looming danger of not becoming a solid musician at all if it gets overwhelming. I'd rather be a good bassist with a pick than never be any kind of musician at all due to unrealistic aspirations.

If I could choose, yeah I'd probably be better with fingers, since it appears to be the sexy thing. However, I do not intend to slap or pop. Just metal music and other darkish music. (That's the other thing, deciding what style to play, or risk never becoming anything when trying to take everything into consideration.) Sure the finger touch is more sensual for the bass and it looks rad when the fingers are nimbling all over the strings. Personally I have no problem with being a picker tho. I'm simply more precise with a pick and it seems to suit me. I find it hard to go index-middle-index-middle with right hand while moving with left hand, not sure if I want to take a huge step back just to learn to play with fingers...

If someone has a strong opinion on this speak now or forever be silent.

Don't see any reason to learn both if you only use one. Stick to the pick is what I'd do. It's not like anyone considers Henkka a bad bassist because he plays with a pick.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

A curious note: he's not considered one of the great metal bassists. Nobody ever mentions 'check out Henkka from COB'. Why is that? Because he doesn't contribute to songwriting, or because he uses pick, or because Bodom doesn't use bass "in songwriting" other than to provide the necessary oomph for the guitars and drums.

I believe I will stick with pick.

 

[ESA1996]

Probably cos' he doesn't do anything exceptional. Cliff Burton is known for his inventive bass lines, even soloing occasionally. Henkka plays simpler stuff with the idea that it fits the song. He doesn't try to show off or do anything hard unless the song needs it. Another example might be Sami from Ensiferum whom I'd consider great for solely for his awesome stage performance (Not that he'd be a bad player, but what separates him from other good bassists is his stage performance, not his playing). He might well be the best performer I've ever seen.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Um. I love holding my bass low. It's just cool. I don't want to look like a nerd holding it like a jazz player. But I find it's hard to align my left wrist with the neck in the perfect position for playing fast runs (or chords) using more than two fingers.

How to overcome this? I've tried specific stances that would allow for a good access for a certain neck position. But really... most of the time you don't need that as metal bassist, but fuck... is there any way thru this?

 

[ESA1996]

Um. I love holding my bass low. It's just cool. I don't want to look like a nerd holding it like a jazz player. But I find it's hard to align my left wrist with the neck in the perfect position for playing fast runs (or chords) using more than two fingers.

How to overcome this? I've tried specific stances that would allow for a good access for a certain neck position. But really... most of the time you don't need that as metal bassist, but fuck... is there any way thru this?

Now that's a question I can't help with I mostly play sitting down and when I play standing up I keep my guitar at what I would call average height; not too high but not too low either as, like you said, it becomes hard to play certain stuff when it's too low and it looks ridiculous when it's too high.

Perhaps someone else can help?

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I play standing, cos I want to prepare myself to play live. It just looks sick when it's low, and I like the general feeling. But the left wrist struggles when trying to play wild stuff. I try to search for creative positions... Well, it's not like I know how to play wild stuff that makes musical sense, at this point.

It's like how Laiho puts his guitar on his knee when playing solo, but you can't do that with bass. There are some crazy positions I've been trying, tho... I'll tell if I come up with something nice. Or just keep it all to myself, hehe.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I had an issue with open A string buzz. I had filed the nut track a hair too deep so the string was finely contacting the first fret during open notes. I solved it by slotting a tiny piece of paper under the string, the piece is locked in tight and won't budge, hidden from sight too, all good now, the bass is rocking. Just gotta learn the hard way.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Well I'd forgotten how I solve the position thing. I have this long sweatband on my right wrist, so when I'm in a legs spread stance I push the body of the guitar closer to me with the arm which tilts the neck to an angle where I can access stuff more freely with the left hand. The band helps when sliding over the body while picking. This gets me pretty far at least.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I had this massive revelation over how I can reach the upper frets (1-9) nicely doing multi fingers while having the bass low. I know a bunch about physiology, so I've started thinking about this. Once I look more into the lower frets positioning and come up with the best ways, I might share it.

The thing I wrote about pushing the body closer to your abdomen with the right wrist is good for accessing frets 6-14. And that's on a low stance where your left leg is in front.