Let's make me a good bassist... tips?

[ESA1996]

The natural minor shape is very easy to memorize, it's quite linear, but when you throw one note a half step away, like say the harmonic minor, the shape is all around the place, takes a bit more work to instantly tell the pattern with your eyes.

About drums:

There are sections in songs where pedal drum kicks faster than a guitar riff proceeds. Is there a general rule or do I juts have to listen to tell whether I play as fast as the pedals or as slow as the guitars?

Then there are rhythmic changes where drums suddenly do unexpected things during a stable guitar presence (tempo), should I then stay in the timing followed by guitars, or jump in to do the unexpected fills with drums?

They say a bassist has to lay the rhythmic foundation, but sometimes it seems unclear whether it's the guitars or drums that form the speed of the song.

Totally agree about the scale shapes.

If the guitars play a riff in 8th notes, and the drums play 16th note doublebass the bass will very likely play 8th notes alongside the guitars. I don't think there're any official rules to it but as a general rule I'd say that the bass plays the root note of a chord at the same speed that the rhythm guitars play whatever they are playing. So if the rhythm guitars play 8th notes in a riff that has an underlying chord progression of Bm, G, A, Bm, the bass will play the root notes of the chord progression at 8th notes. If the riff at hand has no chord progression and thus no root note the bass will often double the rhythm guitars (One octave lower of course, being a bass). Also, for parts where the rhythm guitars play long chords the bass will often switch to following the drums a bit more. This usually results in it playing either 8th notes, quarter notes or just directly copying the drum track.

Guitar Hero bass FC videos are a surprisingly good source for answers on your question. They even have the bass track brought up in the mix so you can hear it much better. Done With Everything, Die for Nothing and If You Want Peace, Prepare for War GH Bass videos can both be found from YouTube.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Yeah that's how I sense it too. Well, supposedly the guitars try to lock in with the drums as well to an extent. There are sections however where drums do their thing while guitars do something else, that's when I've usually tried to stay with the drums, just playing the root note of the guitars. There's some room for artistic freedom it seems, not carved in stone as official rule. I find it's a dig sometimes to uncover from the messy sections should I join hands with drums or guitars when it comes to rhythm which they tell is the bassists utmost job or else he's ditched. The number one thing every bass instructor says is forget about showing off and instead make rhythm keeping your main job, as it's what 90-something % of bands want from a bassist.

I'm dying, this sounds too good... blast it so fucking loud, with coffee... 1:10-1:40... 4:30-5:30 (this section starts with bass, but leads to greatness). This band has so many earth shattering brilliant tracks, this isn't even among the best.



This was sheer fun to play on bass. I think it focused on notes G, A, B. Song's named after the artist's studio where Bodom recorded Follow the Reaper.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

About fingers vs pick:

I play with a pick, that's what I got used to playing guitar, and that's where I excel better when playing the stuff I intend to play. There's this stigma however that pick user aren't real bassists or whatever. I don't want people to look at me like I'm a cheater or something. Picks seem to diminish the artistic value of a bassist. Some music would be better with a softer touch, some sounds good with the sharper edge.

But I come to the conclusion why not just stick to the pick, as there's too little time in life for everything. If finger technique is dragging behind, should I learn that also anyways or just forget about it? There is a looming danger of not becoming a solid musician at all if it gets overwhelming. I'd rather be a good bassist with a pick than never be any kind of musician at all due to unrealistic aspirations.

If I could choose, yeah I'd probably be better with fingers, since it appears to be the sexy thing. However, I do not intend to slap or pop. Just metal music and other darkish music. (That's the other thing, deciding what style to play, or risk never becoming anything when trying to take everything into consideration.) Sure the finger touch is more sensual for the bass and it looks rad when the fingers are nimbling all over the strings. Personally I have no problem with being a picker tho. I'm simply more precise with a pick and it seems to suit me. I find it hard to go index-middle-index-middle with right hand while moving with left hand, not sure if I want to take a huge step back just to learn to play with fingers...

If someone has a strong opinion on this speak now or forever be silent.

 

[ESA1996]

About fingers vs pick:

I play with a pick, that's what I got used to playing guitar, and that's where I excel better when playing the stuff I intend to play. There's this stigma however that pick user aren't real bassists or whatever. I don't want people to look at me like I'm a cheater or something. Picks seem to diminish the artistic value of a bassist. Some music would be better with a softer touch, some sounds good with the sharper edge.

But I come to the conclusion why not just stick to the pick, as there's too little time in life for everything. If finger technique is dragging behind, should I learn that also anyways or just forget about it? There is a looming danger of not becoming a solid musician at all if it gets overwhelming. I'd rather be a good bassist with a pick than never be any kind of musician at all due to unrealistic aspirations.

If I could choose, yeah I'd probably be better with fingers, since it appears to be the sexy thing. However, I do not intend to slap or pop. Just metal music and other darkish music. (That's the other thing, deciding what style to play, or risk never becoming anything when trying to take everything into consideration.) Sure the finger touch is more sensual for the bass and it looks rad when the fingers are nimbling all over the strings. Personally I have no problem with being a picker tho. I'm simply more precise with a pick and it seems to suit me. I find it hard to go index-middle-index-middle with right hand while moving with left hand, not sure if I want to take a huge step back just to learn to play with fingers...

If someone has a strong opinion on this speak now or forever be silent.

Don't see any reason to learn both if you only use one. Stick to the pick is what I'd do. It's not like anyone considers Henkka a bad bassist because he plays with a pick.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

A curious note: he's not considered one of the great metal bassists. Nobody ever mentions 'check out Henkka from COB'. Why is that? Because he doesn't contribute to songwriting, or because he uses pick, or because Bodom doesn't use bass "in songwriting" other than to provide the necessary oomph for the guitars and drums.

I believe I will stick with pick.

 

[ESA1996]

Probably cos' he doesn't do anything exceptional. Cliff Burton is known for his inventive bass lines, even soloing occasionally. Henkka plays simpler stuff with the idea that it fits the song. He doesn't try to show off or do anything hard unless the song needs it. Another example might be Sami from Ensiferum whom I'd consider great for solely for his awesome stage performance (Not that he'd be a bad player, but what separates him from other good bassists is his stage performance, not his playing). He might well be the best performer I've ever seen.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Um. I love holding my bass low. It's just cool. I don't want to look like a nerd holding it like a jazz player. But I find it's hard to align my left wrist with the neck in the perfect position for playing fast runs (or chords) using more than two fingers.

How to overcome this? I've tried specific stances that would allow for a good access for a certain neck position. But really... most of the time you don't need that as metal bassist, but fuck... is there any way thru this?

 

[ESA1996]

Um. I love holding my bass low. It's just cool. I don't want to look like a nerd holding it like a jazz player. But I find it's hard to align my left wrist with the neck in the perfect position for playing fast runs (or chords) using more than two fingers.

How to overcome this? I've tried specific stances that would allow for a good access for a certain neck position. But really... most of the time you don't need that as metal bassist, but fuck... is there any way thru this?

Now that's a question I can't help with I mostly play sitting down and when I play standing up I keep my guitar at what I would call average height; not too high but not too low either as, like you said, it becomes hard to play certain stuff when it's too low and it looks ridiculous when it's too high.

Perhaps someone else can help?

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I play standing, cos I want to prepare myself to play live. It just looks sick when it's low, and I like the general feeling. But the left wrist struggles when trying to play wild stuff. I try to search for creative positions... Well, it's not like I know how to play wild stuff that makes musical sense, at this point.

It's like how Laiho puts his guitar on his knee when playing solo, but you can't do that with bass. There are some crazy positions I've been trying, tho... I'll tell if I come up with something nice. Or just keep it all to myself, hehe.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I had an issue with open A string buzz. I had filed the nut track a hair too deep so the string was finely contacting the first fret during open notes. I solved it by slotting a tiny piece of paper under the string, the piece is locked in tight and won't budge, hidden from sight too, all good now, the bass is rocking. Just gotta learn the hard way.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Well I'd forgotten how I solve the position thing. I have this long sweatband on my right wrist, so when I'm in a legs spread stance I push the body of the guitar closer to me with the arm which tilts the neck to an angle where I can access stuff more freely with the left hand. The band helps when sliding over the body while picking. This gets me pretty far at least.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I had this massive revelation over how I can reach the upper frets (1-9) nicely doing multi fingers while having the bass low. I know a bunch about physiology, so I've started thinking about this. Once I look more into the lower frets positioning and come up with the best ways, I might share it.

The thing I wrote about pushing the body closer to your abdomen with the right wrist is good for accessing frets 6-14. And that's on a low stance where your left leg is in front.

 

[ESA1996]

You make it sound like science Not that I'm complaining though.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Been progressing a lot...

I found a book, Music Theory for the Bassist, or something like that, by Ariane Cap, she has a youtube channel also... one of the few existing books that have bass as approach. Gone thru intervals at this point. Learned to think where to jump from one note to the next if intending to sound tense, warm, frictionate, open etc.

Changed from using pick primarily to using fingers primarily! This was a huge and unexpected change. Been a sworn pick user, cos my nervous system developed for that with guitar. But I got sick as fuck for all the people going 'real bassists don't use a pick.' And it feels more intimate and more challenging in an strange way, it's also possible to to certain things with chords/intervals... I use whichever the band in question does with bassist. When it comes to sheer speed tho I still laser thru with a pick faster.

Played over about 100 albums at this point. Gotta fix my fucking amp soon to get access to albums on youtube.

I've developed a playing position that feels quite nice and fluid.

My tenosynovitis is haunting still, my current job is so fucking strainful on the wrists. Can never get rest. It could all end any day. But I feel I could play bass without my left thumb if it came to it, just not optimal but still possible to an extent. Also trying my best to not use the left thumb at work whenever possible. I lift iron all day with speed, so... trying to eat D-vitamin and calcium and maybe use ice therapy...

QUESTION of the day, this is something I find interesting...

The bass itself sounds gay when we go over 12th fret. Sometimes you go there in some songs, the flutey tone comes into play at some fast sections. Musically it's a challenge to create dark sounding things with gay sounds. It's not enough just to use minor scale notes, you need to think what kinds of licks sound dark. Bass in itself sounds warm, anything you play down there sounds dark, but then anything you play up the strings and frets tends to sound hippy and out of place in any dark or cold musical environment.

I also got my mom to knot for me a bassist's wrist band with a Type O Negative colour theme, hehe. It's hard to find these things online, one I have is black&white with sports sponsors and all.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I've played over almost all my physical CD:s, just nine left. Got my player fixed so then I can connect the sound to youtube and access hundreds more. I've been practicing intervals, triad chords and their inversions. I intend to have the book practiced down and understanding how to tool around with the knowledge as soon as I can, I have about an hour per day playing and a few hours a week reading.

 

[CliffBurton]

J00nasssss I thought you were into keyboards and raw veganism.
Play root notes on 1beat and keep in time with drums, sometimes play 5ths on the 3rd beat, maybe the 2nd if you feeling peppy. glhf

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Well I think the reason why bass is often subjugated into a supporting role in metal to provide heaviness is: the character of the instrument is warm and soft, in a genre where (in most subgenres, not all) you desire the instruments to sound cold, sharp. Maybe if you had a bass guitar with very long, thin strings, you could use it more adventurously...

I think to say "just play root then 5th" etc is usually a guitarist enslaving someone below them with ego to make clear who is the songwriter. It's also a humbling guideline to restrict tasteless improvisation, and reminding of the importance of rhythm and groove, which is good. To adventure in proud manner while having a sense of spontaneous articulation one needs to have quite good skills as bassist.

Here is a wonderful example of the bass as "the instrument you can't hear, but you can feel."

 

[Inceptionist]

Well I think the reason why bass is often subjugated into a supporting role in metal to provide heaviness is: the character of the instrument is warm and soft, in a genre where (in most subgenres, not all) you desire the instruments to sound cold, sharp. Maybe if you had a bass guitar with very long, thin strings, you could use it more adventurously...

I think to say "just play root then 5th" etc is usually a guitarist enslaving someone below them with ego to make clear who is the songwriter. It's also a humbling guideline to restrict tasteless improvisation, and reminding of the importance of rhythm and groove, which is good. To adventure in proud manner while having a sense of spontaneous articulation one needs to have quite good skills as bassist.

Here is a wonderful example of the bass as "the instrument you can't hear, but you can feel."

Man, is this off their most recent album? Sad where they are now... also almost all of this song the bass is following the root, but that’s what in flames has always done anyway

 

[(__Joonas__)]

In Flames is kinda tricky on bass cos it's constant mash of low riffs. Takes a precise ear. They lost their primitive anger after Come Clarity.

I've just tried playing thru the whole discography of Dark Tranquillity, all except a few older albums where the bass is inaudible... They're great fun to play on bass. Good band that remains quite unknown as they don't have those breakthru hits. Every album sounds very similar and very similar style constantly thru almost every song, but it's quality stuff. Forward Momentum was one of the most memorable songs of last year, gripping atmosphere, wildly epic solo, and the song ends in a chilling climax.

2:50 -> the singer jumps in the crowd surfing and keeps singing. Great trust and attitude to fans. (Understandably it would not be wise for every band to pull such a move, as each band has their distinct type of fans.) Cool song too. Good thing the fans guided him back to the stage, it would've been funny to see him drift out of sight and range of wireless mic.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Really fun bass song from an album I just played: