Metal Elitism (read before locking)

[unknown]

to kind of agree with Zeph and SouthernTrendkill and go off on what they said, I don't think there's a problem with elitism as an idea. Cultivating your taste and demanding more substance (however you define that) with the music you listen to is certainly admirable. And being able to articulate the differences between two bands is also a good trait to develop. The problem often lies within this last bit; people on this forum feel compelled to explain to other posters why Old School Death Metal Band A is infinitely better than New School Swedish Melo Death Metal Band B. Mud slinging and nose raising often ensues. That's not going to convince me to listen to the band you like. Explain to me, as a person, what it is that affects you, as a person, when you listen to the band you like and how it might develop my tastes as a music listener, if I want to develop my tastes.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

I'm not singling them out, but I feel that those two genres have more of a case to claim its true adherents as "justified elitists" because classical and jazz require a careful and dedicated study of music theory to fully appreciate, not just because they are more complex, but the methods of composition and performance demand careful instruction. That's not to say you can't enjoy Bach, Wagner and Miles Davis without music theory, but I think in order to be an "elitist" in those genres, you need that type of education.

I think with black metal and death metal the methods of composing a genuinely great and timeless album are rooted less in established doctrines and lie within a more abstract realm that's determined by genuine artistic talent/vision coupled with a true understanding of the aesthetic framework you're operating under (even if one is attempting to reinvent the wheel like some bands seem to be doing today). I never progressed past introduction to counterpoint in music theory (though I'm a pretty competent guitarist), but the amount of time and effort I've spent building my ability to hone in on and dissect the subtle nuances that distinguish inferior metal to superior metal is definitely not an amount that's comparable to a pedestrian fan.

I agree to some extent that becoming a classical or jazz connoisseur requires a bit more hard work and effort focused on attaining that one "goal", but doing the same with metal is more of a broad process that spans the fields of literature, philosophy, etc. Not to say that those fields aren't relevant in jazz or classical (especially for guys like Wagner that wanted an immaculate synthesis of all art forms), but the extra-musical aspects of metal seem to play a more active role in the grand scheme of things. If that statement is unfounded, let me know.

Edit: I just read what krampus wrote about pop music and feel the need to agree with it. I hate it when people shun rock's tendency to operate under a structural template without exception. Gunnar from Faustcoven mentioned in an interview that dynamics in technique/production/etc. can elevate otherwise predictable songs to a level of greatness, and I couldn't agree more.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

But "higher standards" aren't always a good thing, ne?

What makes having "higher standards" a bad thing? What's wrong with knowing what you like?

 

[Zephyrus]

]but the extra-musical aspects of metal seem to play a more active role in the grand scheme of things. If that statement is unfounded, let me know.

I'm a afraid it is unfounded, because "extra-musical" elements can and do attach themselves to many more serious genres of music than just metal. You may be right about there being a preponderance of "philosophy" in metal as compared to other genres, but I think that your deep grounding in the genre is making you think it special a bit more than is truth.

 

[Blind Guardian]

Interchangeability of thought occurs through the experience of listening thus formulating a change of discern.

 

[King Dedede]

I can already see that this thread is going to turn into long-winded, intellectual masturbation.

 

[Dak]

Interchangeability of thought occurs through the experience of listening thus formulating a change of discern.

/thread.

 

[damnromulans]

What makes having "higher standards" a bad thing? What's wrong with knowing what you like?

There's nothing wrong with knowing what you like, but some people (rare) get to a point where they refuse to listen to ANYTHING new and/or refuse to listen to any genres outside their comfort level.

 

[Draehl]

I can already see that this thread is going to turn into long-winded, intellectual masturbation.

90% of the internet is masturbation in one form or another.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

There's nothing wrong with knowing what you like, but some people (rare) get to a point where they refuse to listen to ANYTHING new and/or refuse to listen to any genres outside their comfort level.

So what? If people find their comfort level, why do they have to be expected to branch out? I know what appeals to me and what doesn't. Metal is a vast genre as it is (even when it's stripped down to its traditional roots, believe it or not) so I have more than enough "diversity" to satisfy my needs. I'm quite frankly not interested in listening to psychedellic/avant-garde/*insert inappropriately combined genre* black metal. Being of the opinion that certain genres shouldn't be combined doesn't make someone close-minded.

 

[damnromulans]

It kind of does, but whatever. But let's say there are new bands within the genres you like. Would you give them a try, or would you say "BAH HUMBUG I already know all the best bands so there is no point listening to new ones?"

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I would most likely give them a try. I never said otherwise. I only said that I'm less likely to check out bands that have too much outside influence that make the genre sound like a parody of itself.

 

[damnromulans]

Right. So it could be so much worse. Nothing wrong with being generally disinterested in a genre you've tried and don't like

 

[TheBahggs]

If you claim to not listen to anything aside from metal because metal is the only classification of music you enjoy, there is nothing wrong with that. However, if you state that you avoid all other forms of music because they are inferior, it makes you an ignorant elitist. I enjoy plenty of other styles and artists outside of the metal umbrella that range from Joy Division to George Gershwin, but metal is a place where I feel most at home.