METALLICA HATERS

[Grazydine]

hahaha, dude metallica's first 4 albums are good at best, they are FAR from godly.


Also, just my random feelings about metallica... Once they were a fairly good band but once the black album was released they were finished, that album sucked. I lost all respect for them when they started to sue their fans for downloading music. thats how I feel anyway.

Hey i respect your previous opinions but i'm wondering why do you feel it wrong for Metallica to sue over their product. What if you were a fine craftsman who worked hard at making idk tables or something, would it be right for someone to steal it?

 

[skeptik]

shouldnt exist

defend this point

 

[Grazydine]

shouldnt exist

So your saying it's right for people to rape your thoughts and not give you any credit for it??

 

[Wires & Waves]

.

I always tell people, music is a form of communication that predates language, straight up. It's been around forever. And it wasn't until about the turn of the century that they figured out a way to bottle the water, you know? Before that, music was a river. It was a river and everyone could sup from that river. But then someone came along with the idea that, "Hey, we can bottle this, and we can sell this water." And people were like, "Well, that's kind of cool, that's convenient, because I can take it home with me, or I can put it in my pocket and take it on a walk and have something to drink," which is fine. That's a reasonable industry, to go ahead and put some water in a bottle and sell it. That's fine. But the problem is when they start trying to discourage people from going to the river, or trying to close the river, or even worse, poison the river -- then it's not all right. Then it stinks.

 

[Demilich]

ps if you have nothing to contribute but endless ad hominems can you jus not bother its pretty boring

dude, you do the same shit all the time (ref: your response to the thread starter)

you just pick the easy targets


i'm sure you mean to tell me that you routinely steal bottled water also, out of frustration at the commodification of something that has existed for much longer than music

anything could be exchanged free of monetary value, this argument is going absolutely nowhere except into the deep recesses of your vacant mind

 

[Wires & Waves]

So your saying it's right for people to rape your thoughts and not give you any credit for it??

i'm saying ideas don't exist as the property of any one person, rather they're part of an intangible mass of culture which anybody should be free to use, respond to or expand upon without fear of being quashed by this ridiculous concept of ownership of ideas which really does nobody any good other than anti-culture, pro-capitalist assholes.

 

[5thSeason]

there is nothing wrong with downloading music as long as you buy it if you like it. If someone downloads an album that they think is shit they will delete it and they wouldnt buy it anyway. If they like the album they should buy it.

Some albums are so obscure that downloading them is the ONLY way to be able to enjoy them. When an album is long out of print and you cant even find it on ebay how else are you supposed to listen to it? Personally I dont see anything wrong with that.

I do have a problem with people downloading gigs upon gigs worth of music and never actually going out and buying any albums. I dont have any problem with people downloading to check out bands they arent farmiliar with, or if its impossible to find a copy to buy, or if its an early leak of an album. Just buy it if you like it (and if you can find it).

Metallica blamed their decline in album sales on kids downloading music, however I was making and trading mp3s on my 14.4 modem on fucking AOL back when the black album was new and they never complained. Sure... it took HOURS to rip a cd to mp3 format and it took a long time to download a song... things are much faster and easier today however its not the reason their sales went down. The reason their sales declined was because they started putting out shitty albums.

Many people see downloading music as wrong, and in some ways I agree. I also think its wrong for a band with a huge fan base (like metallica) to start putting out shitty albums and have their die hard fans run out and buy them only to get home, pop them in the cd player and find out they suck and just wasted like $20.

Thats why I like downloading music, if I think its good I buy it, and the artist see's the reward for their efforts. If the artist is established and they get lazy and put out crap (metallica for example) after a while they cant get away with selling albums just on their name alone.

 

[skeptik]

.

1) Intellectual Property Rights extend far past just music.
2) Nobody is preventing you from freely sharing your own music, but you should have the option to not have your music stolen without proper compensation if you don't want people to have your music without proper compensation. The fact is that music has surpassed an art form and is an industry, so the idea that music is a river where all people are granted access is a very poor representation of reality.

 

[Wires & Waves]

dude, you do the same shit all the time (ref: your response to the thread starter)

my post actually contained something of substance also, yours are just trolling and vague allusions to making a point

i'm sure you mean to tell me that you routinely steal bottled water also, out of frustration at the commodification of something that has existed for much longer than music

anything could be exchanged free of monetary value, this argument is going absolutely nowhere except into the deep recesses of your vacant mind

did you miss the part of that quote where it says selling bottled water isn't a bad thing? that's a tangible product that has a reason to have monetary value attached to it. i buy hella cds, fyi.

 

[Wires & Waves]

1) Intellectual Property Rights extend far past just music.
2) Nobody is preventing you from freely sharing your own music, but you should have the option to not have your music stolen

it isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement

without proper compensation if you don't want people to have your music without proper compensation. The fact is that music has surpassed an art form and is an industry, so the idea that music is a river where all people are granted access is a very poor representation of reality.

well i guess nobody should have any beliefs that contradict the status quo because they don't represent the current reality then

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I don't understand how a metal fan with 2 ears and a brain could say metallica's 1st 4 albums are anything less than sensational

Thank you. These fucking noob's are idiots.

 

[skeptik]

well i guess nobody should have any beliefs that contradict the status quo because they don't represent the current reality then

To have a belief that isn't true is generally stupid, yes.

 

[Wires & Waves]

To have a belief that isn't true is generally stupid, yes.

the music industry is not music, nor is believing in the way something should be the same as believing it is that way

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

personally, I don't give a shit about metallica - I don't give a shit about any of their albums last 15 years - don't give a shit about lars or kirk or james

but listening, objectively (or as objectively as possible), I don't see how one would not notice the excellence in every one of their 83-88 albums

fine example of thrash/heavy metal

 

[Grazydine]

there is nothing wrong with downloading music as long as you buy it if you like it. If someone downloads an album that they think is shit they will delete it and they wouldnt buy it anyway. If they like the album they should buy it.

Some albums are so obscure that downloading them is the ONLY way to be able to enjoy them. When an album is long out of print and you cant even find it on ebay how else are you supposed to listen to it? Personally I dont see anything wrong with that.

I do have a problem with people downloading gigs upon gigs worth of music and never actually going out and buying any albums. I dont have any problem with people downloading to check out bands they arent farmiliar with, or if its impossible to find a copy to buy, or if its an early leak of an album. Just buy it if you like it (and if you can find it).

Metallica blamed their decline in album sales on kids downloading music, however I was making and trading mp3s on my 14.4 modem on fucking AOL back when the black album was new and they never complained. Sure... it took HOURS to rip a cd to mp3 format and it took a long time to download a song... things are much faster and easier today however its not the reason their sales went down. The reason their sales declined was because they started putting out shitty albums.

Many people see downloading music as wrong, and in some ways I agree. I also think its wrong for a band with a huge fan base (like metallica) to start putting out shitty albums and have their die hard fans run out and buy them only to get home, pop them in the cd player and find out they suck and just wasted like $20.

Thats why I like downloading music, if I think its good I buy it, and the artist see's the reward for their efforts. If the artist is established and they get lazy and put out crap (metallica for example) after a while they cant get away with selling albums just on their name alone.

Metallica never bothered about you downloading their music back in 91 because it wasn't as prevalent, easy, or accessible to do like it is nowadays so they probably didn't know or either care, but nowadays when you get 10,000...50,000, 1000,000 etc kids downloading stuff that's gonna take outta rightful chunk of what you should be getting. Some might say well Metallica are millionares so it's okay, but that that's not the point. It shouldn't be alright for Johnny new band or Metallica, so i could see where Lars is comming from. Unfortunately musics a business and untill we live in a world where ideas can be created freely without the worry of having to pay the bills it's gonna stay that way. The musics industry is a dinosaur on it's way out thank God that's the reason we have half the shit crap out today because you got some bald fat dude in a suit making decisions, that doesn't know shit about music. The situation is alot like cloning, eventually it will happen but it needs to be controlled, embraced and used intelligently to satisfy both the needs of the artist and the consumer.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Metallica never bothered about you downloading their music back in 91 because it wasn't as prevalent, easy, or accessible to do like it is nowadays so they probably didn't know or either care, but nowadays when you get 10,000...50,000, 1000,000 etc kids downloading stuff that's gonna take outta rightful chunk of what you should be getting. Some might say well Metallica are millionares so it's okay, but that that's not the point. It shouldn't be alright for Johnny new band or Metallica, so i could see where Lars is comming from. Unfortunately musics a business and untill we live in a world where ideas can be created freely without the worry of having to pay the bills it's gonna stay that way. The musics industry is a dinosaur on it's way out thank God that's the reason we have half the shit crap out today because you got some bald fat dude in a suit making decisions, that doesn't know shit about music. The situation is alot like cloning, eventually it will happen but it needs to be controlled, embraced and used intelligently to satisfy both the needs of the artist and the consumer.

is there really any proof that downloading is significantly damaging the revenue of the music industry??

that's what I would be interested in (I would research right now but I'm writing a paper for school)

 

[skeptik]

the music industry is not music, nor is believing in the way something should be the same as believing it is that way

...k, no shit

Copywrite infringement of commercial materials against the wishes of the creator of the intellectual property is legitimately looked down upon because the creator of the intellectual property has the (albeit obviously not inherent) right to protect his creation against unjust acquisition. There are many problems with this stance, of course, but it's very simple in terms of music. If you create a song and don't want people to download it with no intentions of ever giving you compensation for it, then you should be entitled to certain protections as a viable commercial interest or product.

 

[Wires & Waves]

...k, no shit

Copywrite infringement of commercial materials against the wishes of the creator of the intellectual property is legitimately looked down upon because the creator of the intellectual property has the (albeit obviously not inherent) right to protect his creation against unjust acquisition. There are many problems with this stance, of course, but it's very simple in terms of music. If you create a song and don't want people to download it with no intentions of ever giving you compensation for it, then you should be entitled to certain protections as a viable commercial interest or product.

i believe this is serving commercial interests to the detriment of the good of society as a whole, and that is wrong!...i thought this was pretty clear but for some reason you seem to think im ignorant of the current state of reality rather than simply being idealistic.

 

[Demilich]

Whinges and Waves, I'm going to stop trying to counter your ever-shifting, ever-crumbling tide of horrible arguments, for you'll just dance around the responses and will never produce any decent reasoning to support your claim.

The folk musicians of thousands of years ago didn't pay tens of thousands of dollars for equipment and studio expenses, did they? Trying to equate music of communal expression and celebration to art created to sell as a product is about as fortuitous as saying that all white people are of the same ethnic makeup.

 

[skeptik]

Not letting people download your song hardly amounts to a "detriment [to] the good of society as a whole," so that's where your argument dies. This argument works for other things such as **************s, advancement in agricultural technology, etc., but you'll have your work cut out for you trying to put forth a coherent argument defending the right to download music as a necessity for "society as a whole."

EDIT: HAHAHAHA pharma ceuticals

EDIT 2: DERON STOP CENSORING ME I DEMAND MY RIGHTS TO FREE SPEECH