Music as an environment vs music as melody

[Manbient]

Does anyone else ever think about the way we percieve music? People talk about "atmosphere" often, but what is it? What happens when taken to the extreme?

The way i see it, there are two distinct "kinds" of music. Music made from melody, designed to make you respond more to what notes are being played and the actual "progressions" of the chords, and music designed on simply a more cerebral, intrinsically psychological level. "Music" designed not on any melodic content, nor so much on a rhythmic content, but more on the atonal "colouration" of sounds to simulate environments; music made because the sound of a "bird" for example has associated thoughts and visualizations to go along with it. Or the sound of a train, jackhammer, rain, blowing wind, etc.

Obviously everyone understands and has explored a significant amount of the first... but how many of you have been consciously aware of the existence of music belonging to the second category? how many of you have really experimented and explored this kind of thing? The music does not necessarily need to be completely atonal or devoid of ALL melody, but the aspects "borrowed" from the first category are secondary to the creation of a sound environment.

I've spent a number of late nights alone in my room listening to certain music in the dark, and had some of the most insanely cool experiences because of it. Lately it's been my main interest in music, is the creation of these 3D sound environments you can simply get "lost" in. I highly reccomend that anyone looking for a new perspective on music do a bit of experimentation with it. Certainly it's an aspect of "music" ignored by the vast majority of people, and i think there is a lot to be said for it. It may seem strange to hear it, but most of my strongest emotional experiences have come from listening in this way.

 

[Ermz]

I appreciate these ambient soundscapes.. not to the degree that you do, but I do understand the power that sounds in themselves, not particular melodies, can have a strong emotional impact.

Having said that, I'm not the kind of person that can always sit there and listen to Raison D'etre's 'The Empty Hollows' because I need a degree of melody in my music.

When it comes down to it, I try my utmost best to mix in the best of both worlds. I love music (as in melodic, arranged etc.) that has actual movements and sections that simply fall apart to be soundscapes more than anything... or in fact just layering melodies, instruments, sound effects to create a soundscape.

So, as far as I go, it's a bit of both. Although I am beginning to appreciate, more and more, how an album consisting merely of non-musical sounds and movements, crescendos and everything else can move someone.

 

[R0l0]

Didn't read it all yet but that room sounds really cool... I often turn my lights off when listening to music because it seems to bring out the atmosphere. I imagine cutting light out completely could amplify the effect even more.

 

[A_Tossed_Dwarf]

If you deprave yourself of every sense except for hearing and pop an album in, it's an awesome experience - even with bands that aren't atmospheric or are just straight up brutal (Aborted, Pig Destroyer, etc.). If I pop some headphones on and shut my eyes while listening to "Atonement", I can envision myself walking upon this oasis in the middle of the desert. Pretty awesome.

 

[worldwide_suicide]

listening to opeth, lying on a bed with a tigerface on it, in the complete dark would really freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak me out

 

[NFU]

ok, im game here.


first of all, i respect your intelligent post and give you props for creating a thread which isnt a fucking poll or agalloch/forest metal inquiry thread.

but on topic...im supposed to assume that you have achieved a level of musical comprehension to the extent you claim because you put some tall surround speakers on some rubber storage bins? i think anyone with the right mindset (along with the right music) can achieve a more psychological understanding and appreciation of music without having to show off their 5'x8' dorm room adorned with speakers. however, im not saying you havent experienced this yourself...but i cant help but perhaps notice the motive of the thread being the token picture drop and showing off of the equipment you have. either way...id be happy to recommend some music for this type of experience if anyones interested. but yes...i think to completely appreciate music on a psychological level and as an audiophile, one needs to have such a multidimensional experience at some point to achieve that certain level of appreciation...without being just an instant gratification person with an ear for complexity. if that makes sense.

 

[Manbient]

ok, im game here.


first of all, i respect your intelligent post and give you props for creating a thread which isnt a fucking poll or agalloch/forest metal inquiry thread.

but on topic...im supposed to assume that you have achieved a level of musical comprehension to the extent you claim because you put some tall surround speakers on some rubber storage bins? i think anyone with the right mindset (along with the right music) can achieve a more psychological understanding and appreciation of music without having to show off their 5'x8' dorm room adorned with speakers. however, im not saying you havent experienced this yourself...but i cant help but perhaps notice the motive of the thread being the token picture drop and showing off of the equipment you have. either way...id be happy to recommend some music for this type of experience if anyones interested. but yes...i think to completely appreciate music on a psychological level and as an audiophile, one needs to have such a multidimensional experience at some point to achieve that certain level of appreciation...without being just an instant gratification person with an ear for complexity. if that makes sense.

If it aggrivates you and is detracting from the point of the thread then the pictures are gone. Anyway, it is mostly up to the listener to be able to create the kind of sound environment and imagery for sure, but if there is one thing i've learned, it's that the quality of the audio you hear has a MONUMENTAL effect on the intensity of the experience when it comes to music designed mainly as a "soundscape". For example, "melodic" music sounds good all the time. On a fischer price tape recorder, or in a studio. Of course in the studio it sounds much better, but you don't LOSE much of the greatness if you hear it on your grandma's old radio or something. The same is not at all true for soundscape music. ALL of it is lost as the fidelity drops. It is completely and utterly useless to listen to on grandma's radio. The degree to which an increase in sound quality affects the experience is so vastly huge, because it's not about the melodies, it's about the sound occupying a particular "space" in your listening room, so much so that it's hard to resist the urge to look at it. When the speakers become transparent.

If you wouldn't mind, i would like to know a few albums you'd consider good for this kind of thing. I'm always looking for something new.

 

[Ermz]

Mumble, if you take your sound reproduction systems so seriously, I'd suggest acoustically treating that room of yours.

In a square room like that, you'll probably notice that wide-band bass traps will have a phenomenal effect when it comes to clarity in the lower frequencies. Some diffusion boards in the right places and some deadening of surfaces and you'll be flyin'.

 

[Manbient]

Mumble, if you take your sound reproduction systems so seriously, I'd suggest acoustically treating that room of yours.

In a square room like that, you'll probably notice that wide-band bass traps will have a phenomenal effect when it comes to clarity in the lower frequencies. Some diffusion boards in the right places and some deadening of surfaces and you'll be flyin'.

i know man! I felt bad enough using the bins to hold up the speakers, but it didn't seem to affect the sound much which is good. a square room like i have is bad bad acoustically with all the straight reflections and such. Treating the room is the next step for me.

 

[FUBAR]

I wanna try the ritual room...:Spin:

 

[Opethian666]

Why spend so much money and effort to create such a room if you can just smoke weed before listening to the music to have the same experience :Spin:

 

[CAIRATH]

I love experiencing music in that way. Unfortunately I don't have any high quality audio equipment and my room is pretty terrible from an acoustic point of view so I can't really do it the same way you do. But I mainly use a good pair of headphones for it (up until recently a pair of Sennheiser HD497 headphones, but they broke and I replaced them with a pair of HD437 which I assumed would sound more or less the same but unfortunately I was wrong, they are muddy as hell, so I still have to buy a decent pair again soon).

I do generally like to stick with music that has some semblance of melody though. I'll be the first to admit I don't have the best attention span ever and if there is nothing carrying the sound itself then I tend to lose interest after a while. It doesn't need to be structured like a song, but it needs to have something other than just atonal noises otherwise I just cannot maintain my focus.

I think my favourite artists to get lost in completely are Neurosis and Coil. They both create music that can almost put me in a trance when I listen to it in the right mood and with no distractions. I once actually fell asleep to Through Silver In Blood and woke up with an *incredibly* uncomfortable feeling. It was like I just woke up out of a nightmare eventhough I couldn't remember any dreams at all. To be honest eventhough I've owned that album for like 4 years now it still frightens me a little in some way.

It would be nice if we could get some recommendations in this thread going actually. I'd been thinking about starting a thread about ambient/darkwave/dark electronic music because I noticed you among others seemed to have some interest in that and I'm always looking for new stuff (I tried downloading some stuff from you on DC a while ago but that seemed to be hopeless).

Some dark ambient'ish stuff I like to listen to: (I said 'ish because most of it is really quite musical so ambient purists would probably not call most of this ambient)

Atrium Carceri
Coil
Delerium (old)
Herbst9
Lustmord
Raison d'Etre

And some lighter (happier, for the lack of a better word) stuff:

Aphex Twin
Black Lung
Boards of Canada
Delerium (newer)
Global Communication
O Yuki Conjugate
Soma
Synaesthesia

And some bands that are not ambient or electronic at all but do create non-standard songs that you can also get lost in if you give it time:

Fields of the Nephilim
Jarboe (half of Swans)
Michael Gira (other half of Swans)
Neurosis
Swans

I probably missed some stuff but this is a pretty decent list I think.

 

[daz436]

Why spend so much money and effort to create such a room if you can just smoke weed before listening to the music to have the same experience :Spin:

so true

 

[Braighs]

I might as well start by saying that I am poor and crammed into a room with three people who like to play pop music.

My "ritual" is walking or biking through the forest (or closest semblance of one I can find near the city) with my mp3 player and Panasonic RP-HT355 headphones. My apreciation of the music is affected by the environment. (Sunny, snowy, rainy, windy etc.) Orchid is a favorite as it "sounds" or rather feels different under certain conditions.

These 3D soundscapes you talk of sound great. I wish I could hear that, but I do in a way. Your mind can construct music that technology can only approach. I've waken up from a dream where I've heard music. I went to my keyboard to recreate it. But there I realized that it was so lacking. How could I produce a 13th harmonic? How could I make the tone closer to a sine wave? etc. I know there is technology for this, but like I said. I don't have the funds.

Also, I have a deep apreciation for melodic music. I like it combined with atmosphere, but not to the point where the atmosphere is in control. With melodic music, you are in control of how it makes you feel. It is more versitile imo. I am going to see Sonata Arctica on Saturday, and I plan on enjoying myself.

Damn, long post.

 

[Manbient]

Why spend so much money and effort to create such a room if you can just smoke weed before listening to the music to have the same experience

because i'm not willing to deal with the possible negative consequences

I wanna try the ritual room...

Feel free to come to Canada then haha. I've actually had people i don't really know come over and spend the night just to hear it.

 

[BloodSword]

I've only been on here a short time, but this is the best thread I've read. I'd love to experience that room,especially with Adriana Lima. That said, A horse walking, a train rumbling are all rythmic sounds where music time 4/4,2/4,11/8 can be achieved (just some examples) If you haven't already heard this,I would love to hear "A Blessing of Tears" by Robert Fripp, a beautiful soundscape that you not only hear, but "feel" as well. This is an album I could listen to every night for the rest of my life and not get tired of it. I envy you man, because if I had that room, I would have the softest sweetest smelling woman laying right beside me.I can only imagine in that room what "touch" would signify.Peace.

 

[Kenneth R.]

lol see, that's what I was thinking, but I hesitated saying it.

 

[Hyperborean Exile]

The real difference isn't between "melodic" and "atmospheric" music, but between structuralist music -- music where both melody and meaning are constructed by an interlocking matrix of sound (even when "melody" as such isn't being constructed in any conventional sense, as with some ambient forms) and ideas that can only be perceived when the work is approached holistically (that is, when it is experienced in its totality) -- and popular music, which will always be more literal in that it breaks down into easily digestible subunits.

Structuralist music (classical music, much extreme metal, ambient, industrial and some hardcore and grindcore) will always tend to be "atmospheric" inasmuch as a listener cannot reconstuct and understand structuralist music without experiencing it immersively. The hallmark of popular music is that it can be apprehended (and comprehended) piecemeal. This is made possible by breaking melody into small sections defined by rhythm (or dispensing with melody entirely), usually in the form of verse/chorus songwriting. Hemmed in by rhythm, melody in popular music is compact enough that there is no need for deep contemplation or immersion in the work for its essential tenets and construction to be grasped.

 

[Kenneth R.]

oh look who finally decided to contribute something worthwhile.

In this case I would agree, to the most part. There are still examples where the lines are blurred between your two categories.

 

[Manbient]

The real difference isn't between "melodic" and "atmospheric" music, but between structuralist music -- music where both melody and meaning are constructed by an interlocking matrix of sound (even when "melody" as such isn't being constructed in any conventional sense, as with some ambient forms) and ideas that can only be perceived when the work is approached holistically (that is, when it is experienced in its totality) -- and popular music, which will always be more literal in that it breaks down into easily digestible subunits.

Structuralist music (classical music, much extreme metal, ambient, industrial and some hardcore and grindcore) will always tend to be "atmospheric" inasmuch as a listener cannot reconstuct and understand structuralist music without experiencing it immersively. The hallmark of popular music is that it can be apprehended (and comprehended) piecemeal. This is made possible by breaking melody into small sections defined by rhythm (or dispensing with melody entirely), usually in the form of verse/chorus songwriting. Hemmed in by rhythm, melody in popular music is compact enough that there is no need for deep contemplation or immersion in the work for its essential tenets and construction to be grasped.

For the most part i would agree with what you are saying, but there's more to it than that. What i mean for example is you can take a "normal" song, and if you put it through filters so it sounds like it is comming from an old radio 5 feet to your left, it no longer becomes "just" a melodic, easily digested song. The circumstance of the "song" becomes an important part of how it is percieved. Plus context becomes very important too. what i mean by that is, take said song and make it fade in after a fully immersive sound environment, and the striking contrast between the "fullness" of that and the "emptiness" (and the ability to pinpoint the exact locatoin of the "radio" which the song sounds like it is comming through) of the radio gives the song a completely new character and way of being percieved. In this sense, the production values of the song play a hugely important role.