My Drumsolo - what do you think about it?

[Felix Neumann]

A photo just to show, that it´s a samson mic, indeed...



This is the correct placement for micing my kickdrum...



Another perspective...



Another one...



More pictures will follow

 

[Felix Neumann]

The most important element for the kick drum...

 

[Felix Neumann]

I'm sorry for the following words Felix but... YOU ARE A LIAR! ... please tell me you are, because I refuse to believe you got that kick sound from that samson mic. SERIOUSLY.

And the toms... I love the way they sound, it's like... I dunno, just love 'em.

Ok, you have to describe everything you did to the kick. Start from the heads, what brand are they and how are they tuned? Very loose I suppose? Any dampening inside the bass drum? I can see the mic and its position so that's good, but then what... does it pass through any analog gear or straight into your computer? What happens next, what processing?

Give me the info duuuuuude! *acts like a drug addict*

I still have the original super-old pearl drumhead on my kickdrum. I never saw a reason to change it at all. It still sounds TITS after 3 years..and the drumset is in use nearly 5 days/week.

I work with the Mackie Onyx 1640 firewire console, so the first way is actually through an analog console (also eqalizing set-up) into the PC via firewire. Then I edit the tracks with a well hated and unpopular software called Mackie´s Tracktion2 (love it for drumrecording). After that: Wave Equalizer - Wave Compressor -Wave Gate. Ready is the kick.

Dampening inside the bassdrum? Yes..but not that much, just a couple of ugly pillows

 

[Erkan]

Haha Felix, your naked kick beats the crap out of my "finished" kicks

Wow, thanks for the photos and info dude, really appreciated. It's not much different from what I do, so I don't get it why your kick sounds like 10 times better than mine. I've got Pearl Export too (yours is export right?), I mic at the same spot because I have found it to be the best sounding spot regardless of what I do, and I use similiar amount of dampening. I've even got Powerstroke 3 on the batter head, and yours still beats the crap out of mine!

Guess most of it comes down to the mic... your samson kit seems to beat the fucking crap out of my JJLabs kit. Both of those kits are low budget if I'm not mistaken, but the Samson kit clearly seems to be the winner of the low budget microphones. That, or there is something horribly wrong with my kick drum I've actually got another exact same kick in spare... should try switching to that one some day just to try.

 

[Felix Neumann]

That sounds very nice. While the sound of the toms itself is awesome - they lack a bit of attack for my taste , did you compress out much of that ? Do you have tested how they come out in a full mix ?

I should test myself as well how much I can get out of my shitty mics...

Thanks Wolf! I´m glad, you liked it as well

For the toms I used compression extreme sparingly also for the kick it´s no need to exaggerate it with compression. It sounds like paperboard then..I hate it! Certainly my drumsound works well in a full mix. On this I build it on!

 

[Felix Neumann]

Haha Felix, your naked kick beats the crap out of my "finished" kicks

Wow, thanks for the photos and info dude, really appreciated. It's not much different from what I do, so I don't get it why your kick sounds like 10 times better than mine. I've got Pearl Export too (yours is export right?), I mic at the same spot because I have found it to be the best sounding spot regardless of what I do, and I use similiar amount of dampening. I've even got Powerstroke 3 on the batter head, and yours still beats the crap out of mine!

Guess most of it comes down to the mic... your samson kit seems to beat the fucking crap out of my JJLabs kit. Both of those kits are low budget if I'm not mistaken, but the Samson kit clearly seems to be the winner of the low budget microphones. That, or there is something horribly wrong with my kick drum I've actually got another exact same kick in spare... should try switching to that one some day just to try.

You´re welcome, dude Maybe also important are the Mackie preamps(!!) This ones are famous for its great sound quality.
Concerning the samson 7kit again: A well experienced engineer gave me the tip to buy this. He raved especially for the kickdrum microphone..OF COURSE he was fucking right! I don´t wanna give it away, although I have the money to buy some expensive ones. I keep it! You asked about the tuning. It´s very loose indeed, but strong enough. Did you have similar EQ set ups for the kick in comparison with mine?

 

[Erkan]

You´re welcome, dude Maybe also important are the Mackie preamps(!!) This ones are famous for its great sound quality.
Concerning the samson 7kit again: A well experienced engineer gave me the tip to buy this. He raved especially for the kickdrum microphone..OF COURSE he was fucking right! I don´t wanna give it away, although I have the money to buy some expensive ones. I keep it! You asked about the tuning. It´s very loose indeed, but strong enough. Did you have similar EQ set ups for the kick in comparison with mine?

I'm not sure what preamps Mackie uses but I also happen to have a Mackie board that I'm running the tracks through It's a smaller board though, the Mackie VLZ 1402 I think it's called, 6 mono and 4 stereo channels (6 preamps, and the last 2 are going through the preamps on my Delta1010LT, crappy stuff but I run like Floor Tom and Snare Bottom through those two).

Yea I sort of have the same EQ shape as you do, but I'm pretty sure your Samson mic picks up a lot more high end than my JJLabs does. Yours is just incredibly fat while mine sounds plastic/paper most of the time. My kick sounds great live, when I play it but somehow I can't capture that sound. So far, kick replacement has saved my ass, but I always blend, never fully replace.

Ah well, might freakin' buy a good bass drum mic after this summer anyway... then atleast I can't blame the mic if I still can't get a fat sound.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Nice solo there, Felix! Very tasteful... You're such an all-rounder, I'm jealous!

 

[Felix Neumann]

@Gojira, let´s hear your miced drumset..maybe I can help you out a bit. I use the same Drumset. Maybe we can find out, what exactly is the difference soundwise.

Nice solo there, Felix! Very tasteful... You're such an all-rounder, I'm jealous!

Thank you, dude!! No need to be jaelous..as a compensation there a some things I cannot do very well. For examplee writiing coorrect sentencenceses

 

[Erkan]

@Gojira, let´s hear your miced drumset..maybe I can help you out a bit. I use the same Drumset. Maybe we can find out, what exactly is the difference soundwise.

That is an awesome idea dude!

We both have a Mackie board we run the stuff through, we both have basically the same drum kit, we both have a low budget type of mic kit and so on. It would definately be interesting to compare the miced sound!

Maybe, if you are up for it, we could decide on how to mic them up so we both do it the same way, and just compare our raw tracks? Or for your convenience, I could just mic it up as close as possible to your method. I know for one that I didn't mic my overheads exactly like yours, but apart from that, the rest should be quite similiar.

 

[GarethSE]

Sounds really really good Felix

I really dig that snare, reminds me of the snare off Cynic - Traced In Air a bit actually.
Also, do you mind if I add that kick to my sample collection? Sounds really really good!

Tasteful playing aswell dude, real tasteful

 

[Felix Neumann]

That is an awesome idea dude!

We both have a Mackie board we run the stuff through, we both have basically the same drum kit, we both have a low budget type of mic kit and so on. It would definately be interesting to compare the miced sound!

Maybe, if you are up for it, we could decide on how to mic them up so we both do it the same way, and just compare our raw tracks? Or for your convenience, I could just mic it up as close as possible to your method. I know for one that I didn't mic my overheads exactly like yours, but apart from that, the rest should be quite similiar.

Okay this sounds good. An alternative method could be, you send me your raw drumtracks, I mix it and try to get the best sound possible. Then you really know, what you´ll have to buy in the future. Feel free to send me your single tracks, dude. This would be interesting and may help you a bit out.

Cheers,

Felix

 

[Felix Neumann]

Sounds really really good Felix

I really dig that snare, reminds me of the snare off Cynic - Traced In Air a bit actually.
Also, do you mind if I add that kick to my sample collection? Sounds really really good!

Tasteful playing aswell dude, real tasteful

Thank you very much, dude

Yes, you surely can add the kick in your library, no problem..but this kick is in 320 mp3 quality. I think, wave is much better, huh? Maybe I give it to all interested sneapsters and upload a wave. Should be the better method.

Thanks for the compliments as well!! Motivates me to play more drums..and increase my ear ringing

 

[Erkan]

Okay this sounds good. An alternative method could be, you send me your raw drumtracks, I mix it and try to get the best sound possible. Then you really know, what you´ll have to buy in the future. Feel free to send me your single tracks, dude. This would be interesting and may help you a bit out.

Cheers,

Felix

Sure, that is probably actually better. I'd like to mix your raw drum tracks too! That way, I'll know if it's my mics or not =)

I'll send you PM or something when the time comes... I'm very busy lately

 

[Felix Neumann]

Sure, that is probably actually better. I'd like to mix your raw drum tracks too! That way, I'll know if it's my mics or not =)

I'll send you PM or something when the time comes... I'm very busy lately

No problem, dude. Send me your raw tracks, when you find time I can give you my tracks as well. Cheeeers

 

[Metaltastic]

OK, it's about fucking time I got around to commenting on this!

First off, the kick as always sounds fantastic dude, what a punch; could use a bit more attack (though I'd have to hear it in a mix), but man, what punch, and excellently scooped, which makes me happy (maybe just a bit too scooped though, but once again, I'd have to hear it in a mix). The snare I'm not as keen on, sounds a bit too thin and harsh; it's rare I feel the need to describe a snare as harsh, but I dunno, something about it sounds like it was recorded with a cheap condenser mic or something, maybe it's those Samson overheads Excellent, groovy playing though man, I really dig the ghost notes on the snare (and the random cowbell or whatever that clanky thing is ) Come to think of it, all the cymbals sound a bit harsh to me, though a slight hi-shelf cut would help that. Excellent cymbal spread/panning too, I love hearing when the drums and cymbals bounce around from left to right and back again in the stereo image, really heightens the immersion, which is such an awesome feeling. Overall pretty sweet!

And I'm listening to the updated one, btw

 

[Metaltastic]

Ah, I see you replaced the snare - honestly, I've liked a lot of the mic'ed snare tones I've heard from you before, so in the future I'd suggest sticking with that and maybe just blending in a sample for consistency! (though I'd suggest something with a bit more body than the Sneap snare, if that's indeed what you used here, very thin sounding IMO) Oh yeah, and I love the toms too!

And you know, come to think of it, I kinda feel like I hear some slight distortion on everything that's adding to the harshness; maybe something you did processing-wise on the whole mixdown?

 

[Felix Neumann]

Marcus Thanks so much for the detailed input and the strictly analysis! I appreciate it a fucking lot!

For this version I did not use the sneap snare (only for the version before) This now is a DW snare with sm 57 (drumagog library) This come near my imagination of a good sounding snare. The best "dry" drumsound of all time IMO is the sound of the band "Sieges Even" on the album "The Art of Navigating by the Stars" and I really implore all friends of progressive rock. Get this masterpiece! The drumsound is one of the best work ever! I try to reach this quality some time.

I think, you´re right, there is some harshness in some elements. Haha maybe the samson overheads are the weak point in comparison with the other gear. This will be the only mics I´ll change in the near future (I focussed some rode). The samson bassdrum microphone is imo awesome..no need to change it at all. Yes, it´s a cowbell And I can say..this "drumsolo" was not really planned, I just improvised some bars. Distortion?? Oha..maybe I faded it a bit tooo loud, man..ya know loudnesswar

Thanks a ton, dude


Felix Neumann

 

[Nukular!]

What can I say - impressive as always. No analysis from me... besides that it sounds really well!
Just one question. How are the toms panned? Is there some common rule? I have no clue -> me = Drum-Neanterthal man

 

[Felix Neumann]

What can I say - impressive as always. No analysis from me... besides that it sounds really well!
Just one question. How are the toms panned? Is there some common rule? I have no clue -> me = Drum-Neanterthal man

Thank you very much, dude I just quoted myself...

I always make the panning like I sit on the drummer´s throne, because especially drummers are interested in "where is which element" questions. As a drummer I fucking hate it, when I listen to a record and the ride is left and hi-hats right. Stop this!!! Non-drummers give a fuck about where is which element of the drumset.