Nevermore Vs..........iced Earth
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neal
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I didnt read it but one time hahahhaha. It really wasnt worth the first read. I figured the dude had really done his home work, but he didnt. He must be one of those dudes who reads and never realyy understands the words that he is digesting. Cause he did say that he read it. up to the 10th page. Tehn he only called out Neal and I by name. He is an IE fan, threw and threw, and he got pissed from the originating post.
Actually, we should really start bashing him, cause it seems to me that he is higher up on Jons poll than anyone else who has entered this thread. He is high enough on the POLL, that the son of a bitch made his own thread. He couldnt just post it in this one could he. Im getting in flame mode.......i think. hahahha
Actually, we should really start bashing him, cause it seems to me that he is higher up on Jons poll than anyone else who has entered this thread. He is high enough on the POLL, that the son of a bitch made his own thread. He couldnt just post it in this one could he. Im getting in flame mode.......i think. hahahha
PlatypusJesus
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You consider Lars a good drummer?
jeez man...
Warrel DESTROYS Matt in my opinion.
Nevermores lyrics are also MUCH better.Take a look at DNDS's quote.
.....
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November 27th, 2002 08:14 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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you bitch at us for saying that we think Nevermore is better... opinions are opinions, what you stated is an opinion not a fact... im not gonna flame you for any reason other than the fact that your opinion does not apply to me, and therefore is INvalid
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November 27th, 2002 08:15 PM
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and politics of ecstasy , OWNS you
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November 27th, 2002 08:16 PM
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Schaffer wants to write songs about veterans, 9/11 and "freedom fighters" and such. That sucks 9 inch dick.
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November 27th, 2002 08:16 PM
retarded penguin
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what about 11 inch cock?
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November 27th, 2002 08:18 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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can it suck my cock too?
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November 27th, 2002 08:19 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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and anyway, im a fan of both, Nevermore and Iced Earth... just to clear that up for P
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November 27th, 2002 08:20 PM
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I know it's opinion...that last part was sarcasm. And I'm not bitching at anybody for supporting anymore; what I'm bitching about is flaming and pointless insults, of which there were far too many in that thread.
Lars was, at one point, an INCREDIBLE drummer with a great sense for music and exactly where to place everything (not like, say, the dude from Helloween with random fills everywhere.) Now he's gotten lazy, but can you blame him? He doesn't have any passion because he doesn't really have anything to strive for anymore. If he WANTS to be good (like at Summer Sanitarium, at least the San Francisco show), he can be. He just doesn't spend much time wanting to be.
Who's DNDS?
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November 27th, 2002 08:21 PM
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dreaming neon darkspot
You've listened to POE(apparently)
Those lyrics are fucking mind boggling.
"...and when the speak to me in the seven tongues align, programmed to desecrate the pretensions in your mind.To further complicate, I will now state that your convictions lack definition.."
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November 27th, 2002 08:24 PM
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dreaming neon darkspot = dnds
lars is good
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November 27th, 2002 08:25 PM
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lars is DECENT
There are MANY , MANY better drummers.
many
.....many
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November 27th, 2002 08:26 PM
Nevermore26
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To me, Politics, & Dreaming Neon Black are better overall albums than ANYTHING IE have put out. I am also a fan of both bands, but find Barlow's "Hetfield-isms" annoying-ah, you know-ah, what I mean-ah? Stormrider is my favorite IE album, followed closely by Horror Show, simply because "Damien", & "Dracula" kick ass!! I have seen both bands live numerous times, & while IE are more consistent, Nevermore are more entertaining, & will actually SURPRISE you sometimes. With IE, you know EXACTLY what you are going to get. That can get stale sometimes, but if you catch them on a one-off gig, like I did at Wacken 2000, they can be very good. Of course that means that since Nevermore lacks the consistency, some shows are going to be musically less than stellar, but still very entertaining.
Nevermore...
Amaran- "Little Victory" Demo
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November 27th, 2002 08:27 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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ya, its like sayin that Yngwie is good..... or Satriani is good.... but theres many many better guitarists..... theres alot out there that have different styles, hes good for what he does
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November 27th, 2002 08:28 PM
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no, because he does thrash.Almost every thrash drummer RUINS him.
AND, I dont think there are many better than yngwie and satriani
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November 27th, 2002 08:30 PM
Nevermore26
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I always thought Lars was the weakest link in early Metallica. his drumming was sloppy at best...
Nevermore...
Soilwork- "Machinegun Majesty"
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November 27th, 2002 08:31 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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lars WAS thrash, he can still do it... Metallica evolved, doesnt mean they cant do it anymore
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November 27th, 2002 08:32 PM
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No, lars DOES thrash.
They still play old metallica at live shows.
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November 27th, 2002 08:32 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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im talkin about metallica musically now, right now they arent classified thrash... altho they play the older stuff at shows
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November 27th, 2002 08:34 PM
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Yeah, & fuck it up. Now, I think Kirk is the weakest link...
Nevermore...
Lefay- "Hårga"
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November 27th, 2002 08:36 PM
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The old shit was fine when I saw them...better than fine, actually. Kirk has had a few issues with a wah pedal, but still kept up, and James was as awesome a guitarist as ever. I just hope they put that much energy into their new album.
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November 27th, 2002 08:43 PM
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My main complaint about Kirk now, besides having the wah pedal planted firmly up his ass, is his laziness w/ the old solos. Now, he just noodles some scales, & calls that a solo.
Nevermore...
BLS- "Superterrorizer" Live D6S6M6 bootleg
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November 27th, 2002 08:48 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nevermore26
My main complaint about Kirk now, besides having the wah pedal planted firmly up his ass, is his laziness w/ the old solos. Now, he just noodles some scales, & calls that a solo.
Nevermore...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
true, altho with some of them, he DOES play the solos, he just wahs it to hell...
also, that the Asbury Park show you got playin?
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November 27th, 2002 08:52 PM
Nevermore26
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Well, it was the one I got off your ftp, if that's what you mean.
I got some "interesting" info for you, I'll make a separate post...
Nevermore...
Dream Theater- "Pull Me Under" Live bootleg
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November 27th, 2002 09:00 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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hmm k... i got alot of ZW related boots on the ftp... either in the hig h 20s or low 30s
, only one i recorded tho
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November 27th, 2002 09:02 PM
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Re: A Few Thoughts On the NVR vs. IE Thread
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pyrus
have you guys ever considered that randomly insulting people may cost Nevermore a few fans? Just a thought.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hahaha anyone that wouldnt like a band becuase someone on their msg board insulted them is a fucking idiot. what the fuck does that have to do with their music? not a damn thing. and if you read carefully, we only flamed people that flamed us first. if people said 'i like IE better becuase of blah blah' thats fine. but when they made personal attacks thats when the shit flinging started.
-neal
ps-neil on the IE board is a little cunt. if you run BBs with an iron fist its gonna get stale. all that he keeps are threads about how jon is god and how hes the best player ever and how the little asskissers wanna blow him. he deletes anything that questions the "greatness" of IE. thats fucking lame.
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November 27th, 2002 09:31 PM
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for the record.....Lars sucks...
he was always average at best.
buy Cynic - Focus and see what drumming is about.
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November 27th, 2002 10:07 PM
neal
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focus is good. how could i is a fucking classic
-neal
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November 27th, 2002 10:51 PM
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Lars sux bigtime ...azal "Focus" owns
Schaffer probably has parkinson ...
iced earth is just 2 hairs of nevermore's balls
musicaly , lyricaly, etc
did i mention that the average age of their crowd here now, is 14 years old kids ?
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November 27th, 2002 11:20 PM
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your boring me
You don't say I didn't know what you are implying all the time, casue thats why it always a bore. wHEN LITTLE minds write something that people can get clickie too.
THRILL ME NOW....
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November 28th, 2002 02:02 AM
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November 28th, 2002 02:22 AM
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anyone who considers Ulrich a great drummer loses all musical credibility. He even admits he was never very good. Christy is awesome, but he doesn't surpass Reinert's work in Cynic, Death, or Aghora, and Jarzombek's work on Spastic Ink is on par with Cynic (tied for best drumming performances I've ever heard). Asgeir Mickelson's work in Spiral Architect is pretty amazing as well. The guy from Power of Omens is great, as is the guy in this band "Dimension" I'm listening to now. Other greats are Gene Hoglan, Dave Lombardo, Greg Hall (from Sacred Reich), and the guy from Morbid Angel (Pete Sandoval I think). Comparing Lars Ulrich to any of those drummers will get you laughed out of any serious discussion.
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You consider Lars a good drummer?
jeez man...
Warrel DESTROYS Matt in my opinion.
Nevermores lyrics are also MUCH better.Take a look at DNDS's quote.
.....
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November 27th, 2002 08:14 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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you bitch at us for saying that we think Nevermore is better... opinions are opinions, what you stated is an opinion not a fact... im not gonna flame you for any reason other than the fact that your opinion does not apply to me, and therefore is INvalid
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November 27th, 2002 08:15 PM
retarded penguin
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and politics of ecstasy , OWNS you
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November 27th, 2002 08:16 PM
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Schaffer wants to write songs about veterans, 9/11 and "freedom fighters" and such. That sucks 9 inch dick.
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November 27th, 2002 08:16 PM
retarded penguin
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what about 11 inch cock?
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November 27th, 2002 08:18 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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can it suck my cock too?
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- Will Bozarth (me)
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November 27th, 2002 08:19 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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and anyway, im a fan of both, Nevermore and Iced Earth... just to clear that up for P
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November 27th, 2002 08:20 PM
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I know it's opinion...that last part was sarcasm. And I'm not bitching at anybody for supporting anymore; what I'm bitching about is flaming and pointless insults, of which there were far too many in that thread.
Lars was, at one point, an INCREDIBLE drummer with a great sense for music and exactly where to place everything (not like, say, the dude from Helloween with random fills everywhere.) Now he's gotten lazy, but can you blame him? He doesn't have any passion because he doesn't really have anything to strive for anymore. If he WANTS to be good (like at Summer Sanitarium, at least the San Francisco show), he can be. He just doesn't spend much time wanting to be.
Who's DNDS?
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November 27th, 2002 08:21 PM
retarded penguin
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dreaming neon darkspot
You've listened to POE(apparently)
Those lyrics are fucking mind boggling.
"...and when the speak to me in the seven tongues align, programmed to desecrate the pretensions in your mind.To further complicate, I will now state that your convictions lack definition.."
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November 27th, 2002 08:24 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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dreaming neon darkspot = dnds
lars is good
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November 27th, 2002 08:25 PM
retarded penguin
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lars is DECENT
There are MANY , MANY better drummers.
many
.....many
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November 27th, 2002 08:26 PM
Nevermore26
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To me, Politics, & Dreaming Neon Black are better overall albums than ANYTHING IE have put out. I am also a fan of both bands, but find Barlow's "Hetfield-isms" annoying-ah, you know-ah, what I mean-ah? Stormrider is my favorite IE album, followed closely by Horror Show, simply because "Damien", & "Dracula" kick ass!! I have seen both bands live numerous times, & while IE are more consistent, Nevermore are more entertaining, & will actually SURPRISE you sometimes. With IE, you know EXACTLY what you are going to get. That can get stale sometimes, but if you catch them on a one-off gig, like I did at Wacken 2000, they can be very good. Of course that means that since Nevermore lacks the consistency, some shows are going to be musically less than stellar, but still very entertaining.
Nevermore...
Amaran- "Little Victory" Demo
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November 27th, 2002 08:27 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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ya, its like sayin that Yngwie is good..... or Satriani is good.... but theres many many better guitarists..... theres alot out there that have different styles, hes good for what he does
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November 27th, 2002 08:28 PM
retarded penguin
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no, because he does thrash.Almost every thrash drummer RUINS him.
AND, I dont think there are many better than yngwie and satriani
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November 27th, 2002 08:30 PM
Nevermore26
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I always thought Lars was the weakest link in early Metallica. his drumming was sloppy at best...
Nevermore...
Soilwork- "Machinegun Majesty"
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November 27th, 2002 08:31 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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lars WAS thrash, he can still do it... Metallica evolved, doesnt mean they cant do it anymore
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November 27th, 2002 08:32 PM
retarded penguin
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No, lars DOES thrash.
They still play old metallica at live shows.
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November 27th, 2002 08:32 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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im talkin about metallica musically now, right now they arent classified thrash... altho they play the older stuff at shows
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November 27th, 2002 08:34 PM
Nevermore26
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Yeah, & fuck it up. Now, I think Kirk is the weakest link...
Nevermore...
Lefay- "Hårga"
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November 27th, 2002 08:36 PM
Pyrus
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The old shit was fine when I saw them...better than fine, actually. Kirk has had a few issues with a wah pedal, but still kept up, and James was as awesome a guitarist as ever. I just hope they put that much energy into their new album.
-I wonder what's gonna happen when my creative writing classmates know how many lines my poems steal from songs?
Pyrus
NP: "Blood Brothers," Iron Maiden, *Brave New World*
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November 27th, 2002 08:43 PM
Nevermore26
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My main complaint about Kirk now, besides having the wah pedal planted firmly up his ass, is his laziness w/ the old solos. Now, he just noodles some scales, & calls that a solo.
Nevermore...
BLS- "Superterrorizer" Live D6S6M6 bootleg
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November 27th, 2002 08:48 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nevermore26
My main complaint about Kirk now, besides having the wah pedal planted firmly up his ass, is his laziness w/ the old solos. Now, he just noodles some scales, & calls that a solo.
Nevermore...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
true, altho with some of them, he DOES play the solos, he just wahs it to hell...
also, that the Asbury Park show you got playin?
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November 27th, 2002 08:52 PM
Nevermore26
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Well, it was the one I got off your ftp, if that's what you mean.
I got some "interesting" info for you, I'll make a separate post...
Nevermore...
Dream Theater- "Pull Me Under" Live bootleg
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November 27th, 2002 09:00 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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hmm k... i got alot of ZW related boots on the ftp... either in the hig h 20s or low 30s
, only one i recorded tho__________________
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- Dan Preziosi - my computer teacher
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November 27th, 2002 09:02 PM
neal
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Re: A Few Thoughts On the NVR vs. IE Thread
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pyrus
have you guys ever considered that randomly insulting people may cost Nevermore a few fans? Just a thought.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hahaha anyone that wouldnt like a band becuase someone on their msg board insulted them is a fucking idiot. what the fuck does that have to do with their music? not a damn thing. and if you read carefully, we only flamed people that flamed us first. if people said 'i like IE better becuase of blah blah' thats fine. but when they made personal attacks thats when the shit flinging started.
-neal
ps-neil on the IE board is a little cunt. if you run BBs with an iron fist its gonna get stale. all that he keeps are threads about how jon is god and how hes the best player ever and how the little asskissers wanna blow him. he deletes anything that questions the "greatness" of IE. thats fucking lame.
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November 27th, 2002 09:31 PM
azal
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for the record.....Lars sucks...
he was always average at best.
buy Cynic - Focus and see what drumming is about.
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November 27th, 2002 10:07 PM
neal
my toast is burnt
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focus is good. how could i is a fucking classic
-neal
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November 27th, 2002 10:51 PM
IOfTheStorm
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Lars sux bigtime ...azal "Focus" owns
Schaffer probably has parkinson ...
iced earth is just 2 hairs of nevermore's balls
musicaly , lyricaly, etc
did i mention that the average age of their crowd here now, is 14 years old kids ?
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November 27th, 2002 11:20 PM
rebirth
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your boring me
You don't say I didn't know what you are implying all the time, casue thats why it always a bore. wHEN LITTLE minds write something that people can get clickie too.
THRILL ME NOW....
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November 28th, 2002 02:02 AM
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November 28th, 2002 02:22 AM
jimbobhickville
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anyone who considers Ulrich a great drummer loses all musical credibility. He even admits he was never very good. Christy is awesome, but he doesn't surpass Reinert's work in Cynic, Death, or Aghora, and Jarzombek's work on Spastic Ink is on par with Cynic (tied for best drumming performances I've ever heard). Asgeir Mickelson's work in Spiral Architect is pretty amazing as well. The guy from Power of Omens is great, as is the guy in this band "Dimension" I'm listening to now. Other greats are Gene Hoglan, Dave Lombardo, Greg Hall (from Sacred Reich), and the guy from Morbid Angel (Pete Sandoval I think). Comparing Lars Ulrich to any of those drummers will get you laughed out of any serious discussion.
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PlatypusJesus
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Re: A Few Thoughts On the NVR vs. IE Thread
Rumour has it that I have left Ultimate Metal, maybe for good. But your post just plain pissed me off dude. You've got no idea what you're talking about, and quite frankly, anyone who thinks that Nicko Mcbrain or Lars Ulrich is even 1/8th the drummer that Richard Christy is should be shot.
...And you my friend, should be shot.
Prepare to be ripped to shreds.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vocals: Warrel is damn good, there's no denying that, but he has no clean voice...everything sounds scratchy. Vaguely reminiscient of that whiny shit from CKouRhnne or however the fuck you spell it; just, y'know, a good singer. Matt Barlow is one of the top vocalists in metal today; few can match his power. Warrel may be a bit more versatile in some ways, but you can tell that he hurt his voice back in the Sanctuary days. Matt just has so much force and emotion, and more range as well. IE 1, NVR 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Warrel is damn good. "He has no clean voice" is a rediculous statement, especially coming from an iced earth fan. Need i mention The Sanity Assasin, The Sea of Possibilities, Silent Hedges or The Heart Collecter.
The only album where Warrel "Has no clean voice" is The Politics of Ecstasy, in all it's brilliance, as there is a hell of alot of vocal processing on that album, alot of natural -and- artificial distortion.
I like Matt Barlow's voice... but if someone is to be called "Scratchy" it should be him, not warrel. Barlow can't control his vibrato. That's the thing that kills his voice for me. The man simply cannot control his voice in the slightest. Especially earlier on in Iced Earth's albums, the vibrato is way over the top, it's not as bad these days, but it still happens, such as in The Phantom Opera Ghost, where he flat out loses control quite a number of times. There's also a couple of times on Something wicked where he blatantly warbles off key, and if it weren't for that, I would hold him in higher regard.
While i do personally prefer WD's tone and voice, even if you disagree with me on that, you can't argue that Barlow can't sing low at all. He has no deep voice whatsoever, not even when he speaks low on songs. Warrel has much more of an extreme range when it comes to low end, he doesn't lose control at that certain point like Barlow does, just like WD has more control over when he hits Falsetto, with barlow it happens at the same point, and it's so obvious that it's painful, it's like a 13 yr old boy's voice breaking.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rhythm Guitar: Again, Loomis is in no way a shitty guitarist, but Jon has chops the likes of which I haven't heard since the glory days of Messrs. Hetfield and Mustaine. "My Own Savior," "Burnt Offerings," "When the Night Falls," "Angel's Holocaust"...the list goes on. The rhythm guitar is the most important element in a song, and while Jeff is more than adequate, Schaffer's riffage is above and beyond today's metal. IE 2, NVR 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are an idiot.
Do you play guitar yourself? If so, you're obviously not very good, and you've never tried to play songs like 42147, the learning or Beyond within. Loomis is the better rhythm player wether you like it or not. Schaffer's got a decently fast right hand, but anyone can keep up with him. In all honest, anyone that's been playing for a year or so can hear an iced earth riff, pick up a guitar and play it. It's not like that with Jeff's riffs at all, they are extremely catchy, but when you go to pick up the guitar, it's impossible to grasp what he's doing. I know, because i've been playing for about 13 years, both classically and metal taught, and i can play about five songs from Politics of Ecstasy, a few from the Debut and a few from DNB... and when it comes to iced earth, if you gave me an hour, i could work out a whole album, fills and all. Schaffer is a bad writer, it's all rehashed 80's metal riffs (listen to Demon's and wizards, and tell me that every single song off that cd is NOT the same... ), speed picked power chords. Loomis is the better player hands down, and the better writer. Anyone who says that Schaffer is the better rhythm player has no idea what they are talking about.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead Guitar: Oh, no contest here. Jeff is absolutely BLISTERING when he solos, whereas Larry is more of a melody player - which Loomis does damn well too. Maybe it's because Jon isn't too into the concept of long solos - they just don't really fit in his songs. Whatever the cause, Nevermore wins this round handily. IE 2, NVR 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn straight Jeff is the better lead guitarist. This is the only paragraph that you've written that so far makes sense. Where you go wrong is that you defend schaffer's lack of skill and lack of leads "Oh, leads wouldn't fit with IE's music", au contraire my friend, I sometimes sit down with an iced earth riff and write a long solo over it, or multiple solos for different songs, and it sounds great, it adds to the music what iced earth is missing. Schaffer can't play leads whatsoever, that's why there isn't any on Iced Earth records, he simply can't do them, and that's that.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bass: Really kind of a push here...sometimes I can't tell what I'm looking for. Some of IE's best bass playing was on Horror Show, but since Stevie dicked over the band to go back to Testament (BAY AREA THRASH!!! \m/), they've gone back to the solid and über-tatooed James Macdonough. Sheppard rocks hardcore, and has done so for four-and-a-half albums. I guess I'm gonna have to give this one to Nevermore. IE 2, NVR 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, "Stevie" didn't "Dick the band" like you say. Schaffer is full of shit, and if you don't beleive me, scoot over to "Stevie's" forum here and ask him yourself. No contract was made, he was a session musician right of the bat, and Schaffer new that. Now that the unpleasantries are done, lets get on with it.
Neither band has a bassist that really does anything particularily grand, with the exception of the cool fretless bits on horrorshow. The bass isn't a focal point for either band, and in fact you can hardly hear it in most IE records. Sheppard is amazing, because he keeps up with jeff on POE and DNB. While he's not doing anything particularily ground breaking, it's pretty damn hard stuff to do on a bass, especially stuff like 42147, that riff is a nice stretcher for a bassist. And about IE's bassist, refer up to what i've said about schaffer, and note that the bassist doesn't play anything different to schaffer, and schaffer himself doesn't play anything great.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drums: Richard Christy is GODLIKE...only Scott Travis, Nicko McBrain, and Lars Ulrich during the 80's and early 90's (or REALLY motivated now) can hope to surpass him. However, he's only been with the band for one album; Van Williams has been playing monster grooves with Nevermore for the past seven years or so. As somebody mentioned, Richie is more of a speed player against Van's flowing, jazz-influenced(?) beats, so it's hard to compare. But I'll go with the Seattle boys on this one. IE 2, NVR 3 }
Yes, richard christy is godlike. BUT he is held back something chronic on Horrorshow... go and get a real Christy record, like Death's "The Sound of Perseverance" and listen to what he can do when there's a decent guitarist playing in front of him.
Your comment about Nicko McBrain and Lars actually made me laugh. Nicko is the better of the two, but neither men have ever been good drummers. "Kicksnarekicksnare" yeah, that's great guys, it's the same thing and same fill for every song... where did you learn to drum? Oh, that's right, you DIDN'T learn to drum
a sinner with no name...
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Re: A Few Thoughts On the NVR vs. IE Thread
Rumour has it that I have left Ultimate Metal, maybe for good. But your post just plain pissed me off dude. You've got no idea what you're talking about, and quite frankly, anyone who thinks that Nicko Mcbrain or Lars Ulrich is even 1/8th the drummer that Richard Christy is should be shot.
...And you my friend, should be shot.
Prepare to be ripped to shreds.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vocals: Warrel is damn good, there's no denying that, but he has no clean voice...everything sounds scratchy. Vaguely reminiscient of that whiny shit from CKouRhnne or however the fuck you spell it; just, y'know, a good singer. Matt Barlow is one of the top vocalists in metal today; few can match his power. Warrel may be a bit more versatile in some ways, but you can tell that he hurt his voice back in the Sanctuary days. Matt just has so much force and emotion, and more range as well. IE 1, NVR 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Warrel is damn good. "He has no clean voice" is a rediculous statement, especially coming from an iced earth fan. Need i mention The Sanity Assasin, The Sea of Possibilities, Silent Hedges or The Heart Collecter.
The only album where Warrel "Has no clean voice" is The Politics of Ecstasy, in all it's brilliance, as there is a hell of alot of vocal processing on that album, alot of natural -and- artificial distortion.
I like Matt Barlow's voice... but if someone is to be called "Scratchy" it should be him, not warrel. Barlow can't control his vibrato. That's the thing that kills his voice for me. The man simply cannot control his voice in the slightest. Especially earlier on in Iced Earth's albums, the vibrato is way over the top, it's not as bad these days, but it still happens, such as in The Phantom Opera Ghost, where he flat out loses control quite a number of times. There's also a couple of times on Something wicked where he blatantly warbles off key, and if it weren't for that, I would hold him in higher regard.
While i do personally prefer WD's tone and voice, even if you disagree with me on that, you can't argue that Barlow can't sing low at all. He has no deep voice whatsoever, not even when he speaks low on songs. Warrel has much more of an extreme range when it comes to low end, he doesn't lose control at that certain point like Barlow does, just like WD has more control over when he hits Falsetto, with barlow it happens at the same point, and it's so obvious that it's painful, it's like a 13 yr old boy's voice breaking.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rhythm Guitar: Again, Loomis is in no way a shitty guitarist, but Jon has chops the likes of which I haven't heard since the glory days of Messrs. Hetfield and Mustaine. "My Own Savior," "Burnt Offerings," "When the Night Falls," "Angel's Holocaust"...the list goes on. The rhythm guitar is the most important element in a song, and while Jeff is more than adequate, Schaffer's riffage is above and beyond today's metal. IE 2, NVR 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are an idiot.
Do you play guitar yourself? If so, you're obviously not very good, and you've never tried to play songs like 42147, the learning or Beyond within. Loomis is the better rhythm player wether you like it or not. Schaffer's got a decently fast right hand, but anyone can keep up with him. In all honest, anyone that's been playing for a year or so can hear an iced earth riff, pick up a guitar and play it. It's not like that with Jeff's riffs at all, they are extremely catchy, but when you go to pick up the guitar, it's impossible to grasp what he's doing. I know, because i've been playing for about 13 years, both classically and metal taught, and i can play about five songs from Politics of Ecstasy, a few from the Debut and a few from DNB... and when it comes to iced earth, if you gave me an hour, i could work out a whole album, fills and all. Schaffer is a bad writer, it's all rehashed 80's metal riffs (listen to Demon's and wizards, and tell me that every single song off that cd is NOT the same... ), speed picked power chords. Loomis is the better player hands down, and the better writer. Anyone who says that Schaffer is the better rhythm player has no idea what they are talking about.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead Guitar: Oh, no contest here. Jeff is absolutely BLISTERING when he solos, whereas Larry is more of a melody player - which Loomis does damn well too. Maybe it's because Jon isn't too into the concept of long solos - they just don't really fit in his songs. Whatever the cause, Nevermore wins this round handily. IE 2, NVR 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn straight Jeff is the better lead guitarist. This is the only paragraph that you've written that so far makes sense. Where you go wrong is that you defend schaffer's lack of skill and lack of leads "Oh, leads wouldn't fit with IE's music", au contraire my friend, I sometimes sit down with an iced earth riff and write a long solo over it, or multiple solos for different songs, and it sounds great, it adds to the music what iced earth is missing. Schaffer can't play leads whatsoever, that's why there isn't any on Iced Earth records, he simply can't do them, and that's that.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bass: Really kind of a push here...sometimes I can't tell what I'm looking for. Some of IE's best bass playing was on Horror Show, but since Stevie dicked over the band to go back to Testament (BAY AREA THRASH!!! \m/), they've gone back to the solid and über-tatooed James Macdonough. Sheppard rocks hardcore, and has done so for four-and-a-half albums. I guess I'm gonna have to give this one to Nevermore. IE 2, NVR 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, "Stevie" didn't "Dick the band" like you say. Schaffer is full of shit, and if you don't beleive me, scoot over to "Stevie's" forum here and ask him yourself. No contract was made, he was a session musician right of the bat, and Schaffer new that. Now that the unpleasantries are done, lets get on with it.
Neither band has a bassist that really does anything particularily grand, with the exception of the cool fretless bits on horrorshow. The bass isn't a focal point for either band, and in fact you can hardly hear it in most IE records. Sheppard is amazing, because he keeps up with jeff on POE and DNB. While he's not doing anything particularily ground breaking, it's pretty damn hard stuff to do on a bass, especially stuff like 42147, that riff is a nice stretcher for a bassist. And about IE's bassist, refer up to what i've said about schaffer, and note that the bassist doesn't play anything different to schaffer, and schaffer himself doesn't play anything great.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drums: Richard Christy is GODLIKE...only Scott Travis, Nicko McBrain, and Lars Ulrich during the 80's and early 90's (or REALLY motivated now) can hope to surpass him. However, he's only been with the band for one album; Van Williams has been playing monster grooves with Nevermore for the past seven years or so. As somebody mentioned, Richie is more of a speed player against Van's flowing, jazz-influenced(?) beats, so it's hard to compare. But I'll go with the Seattle boys on this one. IE 2, NVR 3 }
Yes, richard christy is godlike. BUT he is held back something chronic on Horrorshow... go and get a real Christy record, like Death's "The Sound of Perseverance" and listen to what he can do when there's a decent guitarist playing in front of him.
Your comment about Nicko McBrain and Lars actually made me laugh. Nicko is the better of the two, but neither men have ever been good drummers. "Kicksnarekicksnare" yeah, that's great guys, it's the same thing and same fill for every song... where did you learn to drum? Oh, that's right, you DIDN'T learn to drum
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supppot Trapped, fuck Palestine!
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November 28th, 2002 08:34 AM
dead6skin6mask6
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damn good, trapped! now what was that bit in the beginning about you leaving?
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November 28th, 2002 08:46 AM
retarded penguin
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now I feel like a brain dead retard who eats stop signs for liking iced earth.
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November 28th, 2002 08:59 AM
Lord of Metal
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I hope this doesn't turn into a flaming thread, ok I do. Anyway, I just wanted to tell Pyrus, don't judge ledmag or neal by the iced earth vs. nevermore thread. It was obviously set up for senseless flamming. They're really both cool guys. Now, I really don't have anything to say to what you said since that has already been done, probably wouldn't have anything to say even if it hadn't been done. I just wanted to state something that everyone else seems to be stuck on, and that is that none of the members of Nevermore seem to be visiting this board and when they do, they ignore obvious threads made for them. I say give them a little longer. Atleast until they get into the studio to give updates, and also they do have other lives than this board (I know for a lot of us here, that is hard to comprehend). Given, they do seem to be turning into * rock stars *, but ignore that and wait. Patience. And speaking of talking to the fans, it seems to me that Schaffer seems to be a guy that does care about the fans. I don't know for sure, he just comes across that way. Sure, he can lie, but it does build up hype. Really that's the only way I can defend Iced Earth after what Trapped said. Still like them though.
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November 28th, 2002 01:38 PM
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I quite enjoy Iced Earth, but comparing the musical talent between the two bands, Nevermore wins no contest.
Trapped, don't leave us, where else am I gonna learn about obscure technical death metal bands when you're gone?
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November 28th, 2002 02:22 PM
neal
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damn. trapped just layed it all out there haha. nothin much left to say about nevermore vs ie.
-neal
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November 28th, 2002 02:25 PM
ledmag
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NEAL***
hahaha anyone that wouldnt like a band becuase someone on their msg board insulted them is a fucking idiot. what the fuck does that have to do with their music? not a damn thing. and if you read carefully, we only flamed people that flamed us first. if people said 'i like IE better becuase of blah blah' thats fine. but when they made personal attacks thats when the shit flinging started.
-neal
ps-neil on the IE board is a little cunt. if you run BBs with an iron fist its gonna get stale. all that he keeps are threads about how jon is god and how hes the best player ever and how the little asskissers wanna blow him. he deletes anything that questions the "greatness" of IE. thats fucking lame.
NEal said my peice ***NEAL
I agree with neal.
Pyus,,,dude, you obviously need attentintion worse then I do. You know SHIT. Thats it. Go back to the non free board you came from...THE IE one.
ANd what neal didnt say.......MY MAN TRAPPED DID.
Get with the fucking program here.
ANother thing, you could have helped us make the IE VS NEVER thread bigger, but noooooooooo, you had to make yourself a little thread didnt you.
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November 28th, 2002 06:22 PM
retarded penguin
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haha
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November 28th, 2002 06:31 PM
dead6skin6mask6
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i wonder if Wendy could combine threads... add this one to the IE one
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- Dan Preziosi - my computer teacher
------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy the pain of those who enjoy the pain of those close to me."
- Will Bozarth (me)
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November 28th, 2002 06:56 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
hahaha, i dont think i would ask her hahahahah. SHe is tolerant, I mean shit fire, she only threatened me once, and that was at the old board, but.......hahahha
__________________
Creeping FUCKING Jesus!!
***Got a BOMB inside a snake inside a baby......yeah***
an endearing story about how ONE MAN rose from the fields and. . . stuff. . . of kentucky to claim fame amongst bitches, booze and cattle-prods!"
Rest In Peace- Renske Witzen "Ethereal Sadness"
September 25 1982- August 9 2002
The nevermore board will sorely miss you.
Blazing ball of fire - final bang ignites
Fleets of hungry angels feast on earth like flies
Burning soul of karma - furnace of mankind
Human skull and crossbones - treasures left behind
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November 28th, 2002 07:01 PM
dead6skin6mask6
Mr. Ordinary Visionary
Online
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Death County
Posts: 3999
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"It doesn't matter how you get to the end. All that matters is where you are when the end comes."
- Dan Preziosi - my computer teacher
------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy the pain of those who enjoy the pain of those close to me."
- Will Bozarth (me)
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November 28th, 2002 07:02 PM
neal
my toast is burnt
Online
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: california
Posts: 3524
yeh. dont bother haha.
-neal
__________________
as the sun goes down and my game gets bigga,
how many bitches wanna fuck this nigga?
-snoop dogg
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November 28th, 2002 07:08 PM
Lord of Metal
Bow Down Before Thee
Offline
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Arkansas, Incest state of America
Posts: 943
Here's an idea, just copy his post on here and paste it into the thread. Then flame away.
__________________
Bow down to your God
Of which you can not see
But I shall not believe
So let me be
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November 28th, 2002 07:09 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
you got it going on LOM..Im doing right now.
__________________
Creeping FUCKING Jesus!!
***Got a BOMB inside a snake inside a baby......yeah***
an endearing story about how ONE MAN rose from the fields and. . . stuff. . . of kentucky to claim fame amongst bitches, booze and cattle-prods!"
Rest In Peace- Renske Witzen "Ethereal Sadness"
September 25 1982- August 9 2002
The nevermore board will sorely miss you.
Blazing ball of fire - final bang ignites
Fleets of hungry angels feast on earth like flies
Burning soul of karma - furnace of mankind
Human skull and crossbones - treasures left behind
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November 28th, 2002 07:10 PM
retarded penguin
architect of fate
Online
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: toronto
Posts: 960
you could copy and paste up to about trapped post....I tried
The whole thing is like 50 000-56000 chars
__________________
~One of the many CDD sufferers~
If I know Im going crazy, I must not be insane
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November 28th, 2002 07:14 PM
neal
my toast is burnt
Online
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: california
Posts: 3524
hahah sheut.
-neal
__________________
as the sun goes down and my game gets bigga,
how many bitches wanna fuck this nigga?
-snoop dogg
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November 28th, 2002 07:16 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
Uh, actually up to trappeds thread, it was 96 thousand characters.
DONE
Senior Member
Offline
Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 2216
supppot Trapped, fuck Palestine!
A M A Z I N G ! ! !
__________________
...silence in you resonating,
empty eyes hallucinating...
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November 28th, 2002 08:34 AM
dead6skin6mask6
Mr. Ordinary Visionary
Online
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Death County
Posts: 3999
damn good, trapped! now what was that bit in the beginning about you leaving?
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"It doesn't matter how you get to the end. All that matters is where you are when the end comes."
- Dan Preziosi - my computer teacher
------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy the pain of those who enjoy the pain of those close to me."
- Will Bozarth (me)
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November 28th, 2002 08:46 AM
retarded penguin
architect of fate
Online
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: toronto
Posts: 960
now I feel like a brain dead retard who eats stop signs for liking iced earth.
__________________
~One of the many CDD sufferers~
If I know Im going crazy, I must not be insane
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November 28th, 2002 08:59 AM
Lord of Metal
Bow Down Before Thee
Offline
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Arkansas, Incest state of America
Posts: 943
I hope this doesn't turn into a flaming thread, ok I do. Anyway, I just wanted to tell Pyrus, don't judge ledmag or neal by the iced earth vs. nevermore thread. It was obviously set up for senseless flamming. They're really both cool guys. Now, I really don't have anything to say to what you said since that has already been done, probably wouldn't have anything to say even if it hadn't been done. I just wanted to state something that everyone else seems to be stuck on, and that is that none of the members of Nevermore seem to be visiting this board and when they do, they ignore obvious threads made for them. I say give them a little longer. Atleast until they get into the studio to give updates, and also they do have other lives than this board (I know for a lot of us here, that is hard to comprehend). Given, they do seem to be turning into * rock stars *, but ignore that and wait. Patience. And speaking of talking to the fans, it seems to me that Schaffer seems to be a guy that does care about the fans. I don't know for sure, he just comes across that way. Sure, he can lie, but it does build up hype. Really that's the only way I can defend Iced Earth after what Trapped said. Still like them though.
__________________
Bow down to your God
Of which you can not see
But I shall not believe
So let me be
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November 28th, 2002 01:38 PM
jimbobhickville
Tyrant in Distress
Offline
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Location: Provo, UT, USA
Posts: 2181
A UM Supporter
Make a donation
I quite enjoy Iced Earth, but comparing the musical talent between the two bands, Nevermore wins no contest.
Trapped, don't leave us, where else am I gonna learn about obscure technical death metal bands when you're gone?
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Librarius Metallicus Founder/Contributor
http://www.librariusmetallicus.com
Wanna contribute info to the site? Email me at support@librariusmetallicus.com
Find some wrong info on the site? Post on the forum at
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/f161/s.html
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November 28th, 2002 02:22 PM
neal
my toast is burnt
Online
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: california
Posts: 3524
damn. trapped just layed it all out there haha. nothin much left to say about nevermore vs ie.
-neal
__________________
as the sun goes down and my game gets bigga,
how many bitches wanna fuck this nigga?
-snoop dogg
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November 28th, 2002 02:25 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
NEAL***
hahaha anyone that wouldnt like a band becuase someone on their msg board insulted them is a fucking idiot. what the fuck does that have to do with their music? not a damn thing. and if you read carefully, we only flamed people that flamed us first. if people said 'i like IE better becuase of blah blah' thats fine. but when they made personal attacks thats when the shit flinging started.
-neal
ps-neil on the IE board is a little cunt. if you run BBs with an iron fist its gonna get stale. all that he keeps are threads about how jon is god and how hes the best player ever and how the little asskissers wanna blow him. he deletes anything that questions the "greatness" of IE. thats fucking lame.
NEal said my peice ***NEAL
I agree with neal.
Pyus,,,dude, you obviously need attentintion worse then I do. You know SHIT. Thats it. Go back to the non free board you came from...THE IE one.
ANd what neal didnt say.......MY MAN TRAPPED DID.
Get with the fucking program here.
ANother thing, you could have helped us make the IE VS NEVER thread bigger, but noooooooooo, you had to make yourself a little thread didnt you.
__________________
Creeping FUCKING Jesus!!
***Got a BOMB inside a snake inside a baby......yeah***
an endearing story about how ONE MAN rose from the fields and. . . stuff. . . of kentucky to claim fame amongst bitches, booze and cattle-prods!"
Rest In Peace- Renske Witzen "Ethereal Sadness"
September 25 1982- August 9 2002
The nevermore board will sorely miss you.
Blazing ball of fire - final bang ignites
Fleets of hungry angels feast on earth like flies
Burning soul of karma - furnace of mankind
Human skull and crossbones - treasures left behind
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November 28th, 2002 06:22 PM
retarded penguin
architect of fate
Online
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: toronto
Posts: 960
haha
__________________
~One of the many CDD sufferers~
If I know Im going crazy, I must not be insane
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November 28th, 2002 06:31 PM
dead6skin6mask6
Mr. Ordinary Visionary
Online
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Death County
Posts: 3999
i wonder if Wendy could combine threads... add this one to the IE one
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"It doesn't matter how you get to the end. All that matters is where you are when the end comes."
- Dan Preziosi - my computer teacher
------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy the pain of those who enjoy the pain of those close to me."
- Will Bozarth (me)
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November 28th, 2002 06:56 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
hahaha, i dont think i would ask her hahahahah. SHe is tolerant, I mean shit fire, she only threatened me once, and that was at the old board, but.......hahahha
__________________
Creeping FUCKING Jesus!!
***Got a BOMB inside a snake inside a baby......yeah***
an endearing story about how ONE MAN rose from the fields and. . . stuff. . . of kentucky to claim fame amongst bitches, booze and cattle-prods!"
Rest In Peace- Renske Witzen "Ethereal Sadness"
September 25 1982- August 9 2002
The nevermore board will sorely miss you.
Blazing ball of fire - final bang ignites
Fleets of hungry angels feast on earth like flies
Burning soul of karma - furnace of mankind
Human skull and crossbones - treasures left behind
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
November 28th, 2002 07:01 PM
dead6skin6mask6
Mr. Ordinary Visionary
Online
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Death County
Posts: 3999
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"It doesn't matter how you get to the end. All that matters is where you are when the end comes."
- Dan Preziosi - my computer teacher
------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy the pain of those who enjoy the pain of those close to me."
- Will Bozarth (me)
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November 28th, 2002 07:02 PM
neal
my toast is burnt
Online
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: california
Posts: 3524
yeh. dont bother haha.
-neal
__________________
as the sun goes down and my game gets bigga,
how many bitches wanna fuck this nigga?
-snoop dogg
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November 28th, 2002 07:08 PM
Lord of Metal
Bow Down Before Thee
Offline
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Arkansas, Incest state of America
Posts: 943
Here's an idea, just copy his post on here and paste it into the thread. Then flame away.
__________________
Bow down to your God
Of which you can not see
But I shall not believe
So let me be
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November 28th, 2002 07:09 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
you got it going on LOM..Im doing right now.
__________________
Creeping FUCKING Jesus!!
***Got a BOMB inside a snake inside a baby......yeah***
an endearing story about how ONE MAN rose from the fields and. . . stuff. . . of kentucky to claim fame amongst bitches, booze and cattle-prods!"
Rest In Peace- Renske Witzen "Ethereal Sadness"
September 25 1982- August 9 2002
The nevermore board will sorely miss you.
Blazing ball of fire - final bang ignites
Fleets of hungry angels feast on earth like flies
Burning soul of karma - furnace of mankind
Human skull and crossbones - treasures left behind
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
November 28th, 2002 07:10 PM
retarded penguin
architect of fate
Online
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: toronto
Posts: 960
you could copy and paste up to about trapped post....I tried
The whole thing is like 50 000-56000 chars
__________________
~One of the many CDD sufferers~
If I know Im going crazy, I must not be insane
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November 28th, 2002 07:14 PM
neal
my toast is burnt
Online
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: california
Posts: 3524
hahah sheut.
-neal
__________________
as the sun goes down and my game gets bigga,
how many bitches wanna fuck this nigga?
-snoop dogg
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November 28th, 2002 07:16 PM
ledmag
God of Unholy Madness
Online
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Kentucky!!!!
Posts: 5489
Uh, actually up to trappeds thread, it was 96 thousand characters.
DONE
PlatypusJesus
A Dead Sun Serenity
Wow, I wondered what the hell happened. One second I'm at the top of the page, the next I am the bottom. Anyway, I don't even know if pyrus will say anything else, Trapped did a good job of putting him in his place. But if he gets flamed enough, he will come back, dumber than ever.
thanks RP.....i just copied a bunch of it. hahhahaha and was going to do it....thanks hahahha.
FUCK PYRUS PUSS.
FUCK PYRUS PUSS.
no need for the second page
And, Im NOT gonna go through the thing editting and deleting things.....like that report post to moderator shit
And, Im NOT gonna go through the thing editting and deleting things.....like that report post to moderator shit
PlatypusJesus
A Dead Sun Serenity
"Jon Schaffer is a redneck Nazi! If you don't like Warrel Dane more than anybody you're a fag!"
I don't believe anyone ever said if you don't like Warrel Dane more than anybody you're a fag.
"-Scarred for life,"
Oh, we scarred him. No I believe his dad already did that for him. If you know what I mean, oh fuck, of course you know what I mean, it's not hard to understand.
I don't believe anyone ever said if you don't like Warrel Dane more than anybody you're a fag.
"-Scarred for life,"
Oh, we scarred him. No I believe his dad already did that for him. If you know what I mean, oh fuck, of course you know what I mean, it's not hard to understand.
PlatypusJesus
A Dead Sun Serenity
fuck, i was going to register there and bash them all, but its like cracking a fucking VAULT. Its too fucking much work to register, plus the dick sucker who runs the place, his rules are too fucking high over the top. ALl of them are simple minded PUTZs. STupid fuckers.
They were sayin shit like......"bless there unholy name" shit. Jon is fuckin poser who has been riding the "i dont like God" train for a little too long.
They were sayin shit like......"bless there unholy name" shit. Jon is fuckin poser who has been riding the "i dont like God" train for a little too long.
PlatypusJesus
A Dead Sun Serenity
PlatypusJesus
A Dead Sun Serenity
Led, you get the nukes. Neal, you smoke them out. RP, you run out and make them waste their ammo. Guerrilla, you can be the human shield. DSM, you stay here and keep the board going. Anyway, he talked about us praising WD. Ha, lately everyone has been talking about how he won't respond and is ignoring us. Hell, a lot of people here put down DHiaDW. Now from what I saw on the Iced Earth board, all they do is praise IE.
PlatypusJesus
A Dead Sun Serenity
Lies and Perfidy
Gentleman of the Road
You know, when I first posted here, I had ideas about a working relationship between the two boards that could eventually lead to a Nevermore/IE tour (they have done it before, I think, but they could do it again.) But that was kind of a pipe dream...I was just looking for some good conversation and info. I never knew I was this good at pissing people off.
Incidentally, I started the new thread out of instinct...I've been posting on the IE board for a while, and threads that get long tend to wind up stretching across the page. Yes, I know it's not the same way here - basic instinct, no control about it. Pardon me.
Not much else to say, but if you guys want to have a board war...well, I pity you, honestly. "Let's argue with people we've never met because one of them disagreed with us!! GRAAAAAAAHHHH!" I wonder why Warrel never posts anymore?
Flame away. It restores my lack of faith in humanity.
Incidentally, I started the new thread out of instinct...I've been posting on the IE board for a while, and threads that get long tend to wind up stretching across the page. Yes, I know it's not the same way here - basic instinct, no control about it. Pardon me.
Not much else to say, but if you guys want to have a board war...well, I pity you, honestly. "Let's argue with people we've never met because one of them disagreed with us!! GRAAAAAAAHHHH!" I wonder why Warrel never posts anymore?
Flame away. It restores my lack of faith in humanity.
Similar threads
- Unregistered
- Nevermore
