NFL 2012

[Dak]

Same reason Elway made that run against the Packers in that Super Bowl. There was a hole, he wasn't fast enough.

I need to add @Krig : He does have a substantial amount of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives, so the always comment is ridiculous. He has a tendency to make Favre-esque plays in tight games. People only remember the ones that are picks because that is what gets the coverage.

 

[skeptik]

Jimmy: yeah, normally I'm opposed to such things, but at this point, it might not be a bad idea for the Giants to search out a veteran receiver to be their number 3. And I think they're going to be missing Boss more than they anticipated over the course of the season. I think maybe they should look to draft a Heath Miller type TE next year. I do think that they can still come out of the NFC East as a wildcard this year, but they will have to pull it together fast. Every team in the division improved from last year except the Giants, in my opinion. I really hope Amukamura is killing the playbook, because he will be needed the second he's healthy.

Dakryn: I agree with your overall sentiment that Romo sometimes gets more crap than it warranted. On a pure skill set level, he's probably easily a top 10 QB. He has one of the highest YPA in the history of the league. But he does have to break the trend of shrinking in big spots (which, like you said, is not all time time, but is above average nonetheless). I think he has the capability to be a clutch QB, and possibly even a Super Bowl quality QB, but I don't think he's there yet. Also, the fumble was his fault. For an example of a fumble not being the ball carrier's fault, see the first play of the second half in the Steelers game. Ngata came through the line nearly untouched between the RG and the H-back and met Mendenhall, Roethlisberger, and the ball all at the same time. Ben didn't even have time to just eat it and take a sack.

 

[King Richard]

I agree with Dodens that Romo is easily a top ten QB, possibly top five if he could ever shed this perception that he loses games for his team with boneheaded mistakes.

 

[muzmaze]

Can't we simply say "my team got thier asses kicked today". Or the "QB made a horrible play". It doesn't mean the player or team all of a sudden sucks. Analysis is great...but too many excuses sometimes. The Steelers got thier asses handed to them by the Ravens...and Romo failed. The Steelers will be fine, payback will likely happen to the Ravens and Romo will continue to make bonehead plays lol.

 

[skeptik]

The Steelers did absolutely get served. Or, as Mike Tomlin said, "I think the people that know and competed in this league understand that there is a fine line between drinking wine and squashing grapes. Obviously last weekend we were grape squashers.” I love that guy.

Not that it's in any way an excuse, though, but it's being reported now that the Ravens fairly regularly were throwing illegal chop blocks on Sunday. I checked out videos of some plays on NFL.com, and some of them are pretty obvious. They took Hampton out of a handful of plays with this illegal maneuver. I just find it interesting, and hopefully in the future teams will be flagged for doing this. It's a very dangerous and career threatening tactic, hence why it's illegal.

 

[muzmaze]

The Steelers did absolutely get served. Or, as Mike Tomlin said, "I think the people that know and competed in this league understand that there is a fine line between drinking wine and squashing grapes. Obviously last weekend we were grape squashers.” I love that guy.

Or some weeks teams are meh...just a "wine sample taster!" lol. Doesnt surprise me to hear that the Ravens were illegally chop blocking etc. Dirty fookers!



and back to Romo, perception is reality re: mistakes. He is good, nowhere near great, yet doesnt entirely suck either. He is what he is. If he can somehow / sometime make a nice run and go on and win a Title? Only then he'll rise and somewhat bury the past mistakes and bad image.

 

[Dak]

There have definitely been games that Romo has lost. (That game against the Steelers that was referenced is one of them).

The playoff losses were not due to his QBing.

2006: Bobbled snap with a documented "slick ball". Choke? Maybe. Reflection of his QB inadequacy? He led them down at the end of the game to attempt the game winner. So no.

2007: Patrick Crayton drops a wide open pass on a critical 3rd down. Not Romo's fault.

2008: No playoffs

2009: Vikings dismantled the entire team in the second round.

2010: Team imploded under Phillips.

"Rumors of his inadequecy are greatly exaggerated". If you check his individual performance averages, they are among the best in the game's history.

Biggest knock on him: Crossbody throws on broken plays that turn into INTs. Just like someone else. But when they are completions no one cares.

 

[muzmaze]

I hear ya...and do think the inadequacies may be exaggerated. I also think he is sometimes incorrectly hyped-up as great. Unfortunately his impressive individual numbers are offset, more overshadowed by his bonehead mistakes imo. These are the things fans remember more. I'm sure Cowboy fans would rather have less impressive individual stats...but have a confident QB that more importantly eliminates untimely mistakes. I know this is hard in todays QB driven league were like 400yds and 3tds is expected all the time. But take the standard 200yd-1td-0to's performance in a big game anyday of the week...this is not a bad thing at times.

 

[Dak]

I think the most overhyped element of the Cowboys over the last 5 years was that lumbering offensive line.
I am so happy that it has been 4/5 dispensed with.

 

[King Richard]

There have definitely been games that Romo has lost. (That game against the Steelers that was referenced is one of them).

The playoff losses were not due to his QBing.

2006: Bobbled snap with a documented "slick ball". Choke? Maybe. Reflection of his QB inadequacy? He led them down at the end of the game to attempt the game winner. So no.

2007: Patrick Crayton drops a wide open pass on a critical 3rd down. Not Romo's fault.

2008: No playoffs

2009: Vikings dismantled the entire team in the second round.

2010: Team imploded under Phillips.

"Rumors of his inadequecy are greatly exaggerated". If you check his individual performance averages, they are among the best in the game's history.

Biggest knock on him: Crossbody throws on broken plays that turn into INTs. Just like someone else. But when they are completions no one cares.

That's not entirely correct. The biggest knocks on him are the timely mistakes and the lack of leadership on his part. This is why no one is even willing to put him the upper echelon of QB's right now.

 

[Dak]

That's not entirely correct. The biggest knocks on him are the timely mistakes

I.E. Crossbody throws that turn into interceptions. Interestingly enough, Favre was much worse about throwing ill-timed INTs in crucial games over the years, but somehow this got ignored by the BRETTFAVREBRETTFAVREBRETTFAVRE network, otherwise known as ESPN.
As a most recent example from Sunday, Big Ben turned in probably the worst performance of his life. No one cares because he has SB rings (SBs, incidently, where he has turned in very average performances. Defense has always saved him, except when it hasn't), and because he's not the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.

and the lack of leadership on his part. This is why no one is even willing to put him the upper echelon of QB's right now.

How exactly do you define "leadership" from a QB?

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Wasn't too long until the Giants signed a slot receiver. Mr Brandon Stokley. I am really happy with this signing.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Week 2 predictions:

Lions over Chiefs: Lions have momentum and Chiefs are reeling.

Steelers over Seahawks: This will be a demolition. The Steelers have got to be pissed after last weeks performance.

Saints over Bears: Should be a tight game, but I have to give the Saints the edge in the Super Dome.

Jets over Jags: Blowout.

Browns over Colts: Who knows. Both suck.

Cards over Redskins: Very tough call. Both teams have improved. Should be a real tight game.

Packers over Panthers: The Packers defense has had 10 days to prepare for a rookie quarterback after a sub par performance.

Bucs over Vikings: Unless McNabb suddenly becomes a good QB, the Vikes offense will be predictable as always.

Ravens over Titans: Blowout.

Raiders over Bills: Beyond the penalties, the Raiders looked good Monday night. The Bills are probably a little smoke and mirrors.

Cowboys over 49ers: 49ers will give a good fight, but Cowboys should win this game.

Pats over Chargers: After watching the Chargers last week, they look like the same group of underachievers who have taken the field the last few years. On the other hand, Brady looks amazing.

Broncos over Bengals: Who knows, they both suck.

Texans over Dolphins: Big test for the Texans. This is the type of game they've lost in the past.

Eagles over Falcons: Falcons are overrated and the Eagles are just too explosive.

Giants over Rams: A must win for Giants. They haven't had anything positive happen since the 3rd quarter of the Eagles/Giants game in December.

 

[King Richard]

I.E. Crossbody throws that turn into interceptions. Interestingly enough, Favre was much worse about throwing ill-timed INTs in crucial games over the years, but somehow this got ignored by the BRETTFAVREBRETTFAVREBRETTFAVRE network, otherwise known as ESPN.
As a most recent example from Sunday, Big Ben turned in probably the worst performance of his life. No one cares because he has SB rings (SBs, incidently, where he has turned in very average performances. Defense has always saved him, except when it hasn't), and because he's not the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second. You can't use the victim card for Romo because he's the quarterback for the Cowboy's when that's the reason he was given so much undeserved hype in the first place.

Favre and Roethlisberger have earned their stripes. So when they have shit games they are given a pass, and deservedly so. When Romo has a shit game he gets slammed because it's kind of what he's known for nowadays and there's so much more expected out of him, and deservedly so.

How exactly do you define "leadership" from a QB?

Gee, I dunno, what does Brady, Brees, Manning and Rivers do? What about all of the other great quarterbacks who were also the face of their franchise do? Come on, you know exactly what leadership for a franchise QB is all about.

 

[Dak]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second. You can't use the victim card for Romo because he's the quarterback for the Cowboy's when that's the reason he was given so much undeserved hype in the first place.

He was an undrafted free agent who got thrown to the wolves and by and large has succeeded. I'm not sure where you get "undeserved hype". Also, I rarely have seen anything positive from the general sports media about the guy.

Favre and Roethlisberger have earned their stripes. So when they have shit games they are given a pass, and deservedly so. When Romo has a shit game he gets slammed because it's kind of what he's known for nowadays and there's so much more expected out of him, and deservedly so.

Romo is a better quarterback than either of those guys are/were. He has not, however, had the benefit of superior coaches/defense that they did.
Wade Phillips or The Chin/Mike Holmgren? Yeah.....

Gee, I dunno, what does Brady, Brees, Manning and Rivers do? What about all of the other great quarterbacks who were also the face of their franchise do? Come on, you know exactly what leadership for a franchise QB is all about.

RIVERS??? lol. You also just completely sidestepped answering the question.

 

[skeptik]

It's kind of a stretch to argue that Romo is better than Favre and Roethlisberger, don't you think?

 

[King Richard]

He was an undrafted free agent who got thrown to the wolves and by and large has succeeded. I'm not sure where you get "undeserved hype". Also, I rarely have seen anything positive from the general sports media about the guy.

He was an undrafted free agent who lead the Cowboys to a 13-3 season in his second year as a starter, thus creating the hype monster that considered him to be a top five quarterback. He has continually failed to live up to the hype he created himself. Playing for the Cowboys doesn't help, I get that. But there's no doubt in anyone's mind that he and the rest of his team is full of underachievers.

Romo is a better quarterback than either of those guys are/were. He has not, however, had the benefit of superior coaches/defense that they did.
Wade Phillips or The Chin/Mike Holmgren? Yeah.....

Heh, didn't you just question my comment about undeserved hype? And here you go claiming he's better than a two-time MVP with a Super Bowl ring and another QB with an established record and great performances in the playoffs along with a couple rings as well.

Also, please don't use the "lack of defense and coaching" shit on me. You have to remember what team I root for.

RIVERS??? lol. You also just completely sidestepped answering the question.

First off, Rivers is quite easily a top five QB. He's a great leader for his offense both on the field and inside the locker room. No one would dispute this, even Rivers haters.

The difference between guys like Romo and Brady/Manning/Brees/Rivers is they all want to take control of their surroundings. They want all the burden to perform put on their shoulders. They all want to be the "leader by example" for their franchise. Romo does not. He wants to stand back in the shadows went shit gets rough and is evidently incapable of taking control of his offense and leading by example and keeping guys in line when need be (cough T.O./epic meltdown two years ago/etc.). Does he own up to his own mistakes? Sure, I'll give him that. But in no way have I ever seen him exude that aura of leadership like those other players. He's always "ho hum, we'll get em next time." And that's not good.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, these guys would give both of their nuts to win a game. Romo? Not so much. That's the shit I'm talking about.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Romo is a better quarterback than either of those guys are/were. He has not, however, had the benefit of superior coaches/defense that they did.
Wade Phillips or The Chin/Mike Holmgren? Yeah.....

Jesus Christ, you might be the biggest homer I've ever heard speak. That might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard said about football.

 

[Dak]

He was an undrafted free agent who lead the Cowboys to a 13-3 season in his second year as a starter, thus creating the hype monster that considered him to be a top five quarterback. He has continually failed to live up to the hype he created himself. Playing for the Cowboys doesn't help, I get that. But there's no doubt in anyone's mind that he and the rest of his team is full of underachievers.

If you look at his career averages, he is not an underachiever. Neither are Ware, Witten, or James. The rest of the team in the last 5 years have been.

Heh, didn't you just question my comment about undeserved hype? And here you go claiming he's better than a two-time MVP with a Super Bowl ring and another QB with an established record and great performances in the playoffs along with a couple rings as well.

Also, please don't use the "lack of defense and coaching" shit on me. You have to remember what team I root for.

Um, and the Colts put together a running attack and a decent defense to win the SB. Otherwise, Peyton has choked in big games to.

Favre was a hypemonster before the MVPs, I don't buy it. It's nearly impossible for a Dallas Cowboy to win the MVP award, since the whole team is constantly hyped/overhyped.

Hell, Emmitt Smith, the greatest Cowboys player ever, and the alltime leading rusher, only won it once.

Green Bay gets this "small town underdog" bullshit tagline, in a league where the size of your market is mitigated in regards to team payroll.

First off, Rivers is quite easily a top five QB. He's a great leader for his offense both on the field and inside the locker room. No one would dispute this, even Rivers haters.

I think Rivers is a great QB. But I haven't seen anything different out of him than Romo, other than he is less mobile. The Chargers have been constant underachievers in the last five years as well.

The difference between guys like Romo and Brady/Manning/Brees/Rivers is they all want to take control of their surroundings. They want all the burden to perform put on their shoulders. They all want to be the "leader by example" for their franchise. Romo does not. He wants to stand back in the shadows went shit gets rough and is evidently incapable of taking control of his offense and leading by example and keeping guys in line when need be (cough T.O./epic meltdown two years ago/etc.). Does he own up to his own mistakes? Sure, I'll give him that. But in no way have I ever seen him exude that aura of leadership like those other players. He's always "ho hum, we'll get em next time." And that's not good.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, these guys would give both of their nuts to win a game. Romo? Not so much. That's the shit I'm talking about.

So what is Romo supposed to do? Start throwing air punches and raging about the loss? And who has ever kept TO in line? That is a ridiculous standard.

How does Romo not "lead by example"? He isn't getting arrested, he knows the offense, he is never late to team meetings, doesn't make outrageous statements to the press, etc. etc. The guy is professional.

I think you have some sort of subconcious connection between "exuding leadership" and at least one Super Bowl win.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Um, and the Colts put together a running attack and a decent defense to win the SB. Otherwise, Peyton has choked in big games to.

In 2006 the Colts defense was 21st in total yards and 23rd in total points. The offense was 18th in rushing yards. That was still Manning's team. The defense FINALLY came through in the playoffs and got the Colts over the top. But comparing Manning's "chokes" to Romo's chokes is silly. Manning has been to two Super Bowls, three AFC Championship games. Romo has yet to sniff such high stakes.

Favre was a hypemonster before the MVPs, I don't buy it. It's nearly impossible for a Dallas Cowboy to win the MVP award, since the whole team is constantly hyped/overhyped.

I agree Farve is over-hyped (especially during the last five years of his career)), but anyone who says he's not an all time top 15 QB knows nothing about the NFL. Romo does not have top 15 all time upside.

Rothelesburger has won two Super Bowls and been to three. Again, Romo has yet to prove he deserves to be in that conversation.

Green Bay gets this "small town underdog" bullshit tagline, in a league where the size of your market is mitigated in regards to team payroll.

If you can reduce Farve to that, I can only assume your around 18. Farve was an elite quarterback for years.

I think Rivers is a great QB. But I haven't seen anything different out of him than Romo, other than he is less mobile. The Chargers have been constant underachievers in the last five years as well.

Actually, I basically agree with you here. While I think Rivers is better, they're pretty similar if you look at their stats, career and playoff success to this point.