NFL 2012

[skeptik]

Dakryn...Tom Brady is one of the greatest football players of all time. You are being ridiculous.

 

[King Richard]

Oh ok, Peyton is the best QB of all time mmmmmmmyay!

heheheheheeheheheheeheheheheeheh

Dakryn...Tom Brady is one of the greatest football players of all time. You are being ridiculous.

Bias aside, I agree with this statement.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Brady would not necessarily have 3 SB rings outside of NE. They snuck into the first SB thanks to Refs making up rules at the spur of the moment, and then needed non-chip-shot FGs at the end of every Super Bowl to win. The year they had the best regular season ever by a team, Brady failed in the final clutch against a 9-7 football team.

We'll never know what he would have done elsewhere, but that goes for Montana, Star, Aikman and every other QB that led a dynasty. You don't win multiple Super Bowls without a great coach and a lot of gret players.

Doesn't really matter if they lost two Super Bowls, getting there is hard enough.

I never said he wasn't a good QB. I'm saying he isn't the god he's cracked up to be. He's judged mainly by his SB Rings/ W/L record. I think you could plug at least the top 10 QBs in the league under center on the teams Belichick has built and they would do as good or better than Brady has in that regard. I've been saying this all along.

Or you can judge him on the fact that he holds some of the most important records of all time. Or his leadership, work ethic etc. There aren't 10 QBs who work harder than Brady. Probably only Payton would be my guess.

And your hypotheticals are siilly. 10 QBs? So you're seriously trying to claim second tier guys like Schaub, Rivers and Flacco could throw 36 TDs and 4 ints if they were on the 2010 Pats? Give me a break.

Bingo. Matt Cassell won the division with NE and ultimately lost his job to Brady Quinn in KC. Brady fucking Quinn.

Doesn't prove anything about Brady. You're just throwing out an insanely faulty analogy. And actually, the Dolphins won the division that year. Pats didn't make the playoffs despite going 11-5.

 

[Dak]

Tom Brady is one of the greatest football players of all time.

Casting quite a wide net.

We'll never know what he would have done elsewhere, but that goes for Montana, Star, Aikman and every other QB that led a dynasty. You don't win multiple Super Bowls without a great coach and a lot of gret players.

Contrary to what you might expect, I don't consider Aikman "up there" in the talk about all time great QBs. Starr was in such a different era it's hard to make comparisons to now. Montana is clearly in the discussion.

work ethic etc. There aren't 10 QBs who work harder than Brady. Probably only Payton would be my guess.

I guess you have a Cam cam on all the QBs in the league.

And your hypotheticals are siilly. 10 QBs? So you're seriously trying to claim second tier guys like Schaub, Rivers and Flacco could throw 36 TDs and 4 ints if they were on the 2010 Pats? Give me a break.

Schaub is very underrated. Rivers is capable. Ya got me on Flacco.

Doesn't prove anything about Brady. You're just throwing out an insanely faulty analogy. And actually, the Dolphins won the division that year. Pats didn't make the playoffs despite going 11-5.

Oops. The argument stands. If a QB worse than Quinn can go 11-5 with a Belichick team, why couldn't Flacco?

 

[King Richard]

Schaub is the epitome of a system QB. He's good, that's about it. Flacco is horrible. Rivers = Romo.

 

[Dak]

Schaub is the epitome of a system QB. He's good, that's about it. Flacco is horrible. Rivers = Romo.

We will have to disagree on Schaub and on Rivers. Rivers hasn't had any level of consistency, Romo's personal body of work on underachieving/poorly coached teams is up there with the Bradys, Peytons, and Montanas of the NFL. Pretty good for being a UFA.

As far as Flacco goes, at least he has a winning record in the playoffs. Even Peyton doesn't have one of those

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I guess you have a Cam cam on all the QBs in the league.

I'm basing it on what other coaches and players say. Very few players have a comperable work ethic to Brady, and it shows on the field through his ability to audible and manipulate defenses.

Schaub is very underrated. Rivers is capable. Ya got me on Flacco.

Ok, so you honestly think Rivers is capable of going for 34 TDs and 4 INTs under the right coach?

You're gonna give Brady grief for losing Super Bowls and then talk up Schaub who has never even won a playoff game? Conistancy, please.

Oops. The argument stands. If a QB worse than Quinn can go 11-5 with a Belichick team, why couldn't Flacco?

Sure, Flacco could lead the Pats to an 11-5 record. 36 TDs and 4 ints or 50
TDs and 8 ints? Not at chance in hell.

 

[Dak]

I'm basing it on what other coaches and players say. Very few players have a comperable work ethic to Brady, and it shows on the field through his ability to audible and manipulate defenses.

Yes, because coaches (other than Belichick, lulz) get Cam cams.

Ok, so you honestly think Rivers is capable of going for 34 TDs and 4 INTs under the right coach?

Who knows? Look at the difference Harbaugh made on Alex Smith.

You're gonna give Brady grief for losing Super Bowls and then talk up Schaub who has never even won a playoff game? Conistancy, please.

Maybe if he hadn't been injured the other year you wouldn't be saying that. But I digress. Schaub has put together a statistically comparable career since becoming a starter in the league.

Sure, Flacco could lead the Pats to an 11-5 record. 36 TDs and 4 ints or 50
TDs and 8 ints? Not at chance in hell.

I was talking about overall team outcomes. Who knows what the statistical outcome would have been. (I doubt it, but then again, I doubted Alex Smith would have anything approaching a 70% completion rating at any point in his career[and he still got benched])

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Romo's personal body of work on underachieving/poorly coached teams is up there with the Bradys, Peytons, and Montanas of the NFL.

WhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaT.

 

[Dak]

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8745393/dallas-cowboys-tony-romo-playing-best-football-stretch

Hell, this was from just the other day.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Yes, because coaches (other than Belichick, lulz) get Cam cams.

Ok. I'm sure most players reputations are made up. Guys like Brady and Manning might put in the same ammount of time as Vick and theres just no way to know.

Who knows? Look at the difference Harbaugh made on Alex Smith.

He turned Smith into a solid game manager, not an all-pro.

Maybe if he hadn't been injured the other year you wouldn't be saying that. But I digress. Schaub has put together a statistically comparable career since becoming a starter in the league.

Schaub's stats don't come close to Brady's. For proof, look them up.

I was talking about overall team outcomes. Who knows what the statistical outcome would have been. (I doubt it, but then again, I doubted Alex Smith would have anything approaching a 70% completion rating at any point in his career[and he still got benched])

Ok if we're talking about overall team accomplishmwnts, do you honestly believe that Flacco, Schaub or Rivers could have led the Pats to a 16-0 season?

And don't pull the "anything is possible" card; I'm talking realistically based on the body of evidence we've seen.

And as far as Romo, I agree he gets more slack ten he deserves, but to suggest he's on Brady's level is just idiotic. Or we can just all get silly. Desean Jackson has had a competable career to Jerry Rice, he just hadn't had The coaches or QBs.

 

[Dak]

Ok. I'm sure most players reputations are made up. Guys like Brady and Manning might put in the same ammount of time as Vick and theres just no way to know.

You can pretend to pull an arbitrary name out of the hat. Instead you pick the only recently starting QB in the league who has done jail time. Come on.

The other 3 QBs in the NFC East all put plenty of time in. All of their coaches are going to say something like "comes early, stays late, always working, etc etc"

He turned Smith into a solid game manager, not an all-pro.

Schaub's stats don't come close to Brady's. For proof, look them up.

That's not the point, and I'm looking at more than just a TD/INT ratio, which appears to be what you are looking at, because other than that it looks close enough. Schaub is in a different scheme. That plays a part.

Ok it we're talking about overall team accomplishmwnts, do you honestly believe that Flacco, Schaub or Rivers could have led the Pats to a 16-0 season?

And don't pull the "anything is possible" card; I'm talking realistically based on the body of evidence we've seen.

Schaub has a shot. I wouldn't stick my neck out for Rivers or Flacco for 16-0, but between the weak division and Ref help vs teams like the Ravens, it's not completely unbelievable.

And as far as Romo, I agree he gets more slack ten he deserves, but to suggest he's on Brady's level is just idiotic. Or we can just all get silly. Desean Jackson has had a competable career to Jerry Rice, he just hadn't had The coaches or QBs.

Again, pick a pouty lazy underachiever to compare to one of the most dedicated, precise route runners of all time. A more accurate comparison would be oh, Larry Fitzgerald. Andre Johnson. Etc.

From that ESPN article:

Romo has the NFL's highest fourth-quarter passer rating in league history at 102.6.This season his passer rating in the final quarter is 105.1, which is fourth best in the league behind Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning.


But Romo is the difference-maker, just like Tom Brady in New England, the Mannings in Denver and New York and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay.

 

[King Richard]

These gifs made me lol.

 

[Dak]

wtf

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Don't have time to respons to everything else tonight, bur comparing Romo to Fitz and AJ made me lol.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

heh. Actually loved everything he had to say.

 

[Dak]

Don't have time to respons to everything else tonight, bur comparing Romo to Fitz and AJ made me lol.

Just found the gif and wanted to use it.

 

[muzmaze]

Overwatch get a fookin clue! The refs didnt make up the tuck rule on th fly. Like the call or not they got the call correct according to the rules at the time. The guy is a late round draft pick that worked his ass off to become the player that he is. Benefited from a system...nah he is the systems ultimate qb...runs an commands an offense with the best of them. If romo had an ounce of the work ethic the brains and nuts that Brady has then maybe he'd be sumn. Brady is an alltime great period! He' s also as good as he's ever been right now at this time. His TD to INT rate is off the charts. Not going away just yet.

And for the record...if the Pats had atleast a half ass to mediocre secondary / defense the last 2 SBs, Brady would easily have 5 rings. Its a credit to Brady that they were even in the last 2 SBs and nearly won them both.

 

[mdmatt4ever]

brady is clearly a system QB. look how garbage he was in college compared to the nfl. its because he was expected to do things in college like move outside the pocket and make smart plays on the run. also didn't get every call in the book in college either

 

[Dak]

And for the record...if the Pats had atleast a half ass to mediocre secondary / defense the last 2 SBs, Brady would easily have 5 rings. Its a credit to Brady that they were even in the last 2 SBs and nearly won them both.

That shitty secondary only allowed Eli 17 points in the last Super Bowl. Brady couldn't even get that. It's not like he lost a shootout.