NFL 2013
- Thread starter Dak
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Crims...its not a horrible arguement. Its based over a long period of time, performance etc. 0-4 against rival Fla and your Tenn team is just as stacked...if your so good and a no.1 pick you go 0- for? Maybe he just isnt great in big games. 9-11 in playoffs and your one of the greats? Not solely him to blame but its not like he didnt have talent around him. If you get the great label your numbers should be better. Foolish to bring up those other QBs cause they are not great nor considered to be. Its not just about skillset etc. Did you not read my thoughts on his skill of throwing the ball?
And who is your QB to lead in a SB?
And who is your QB to lead in a SB?
The horrible argument is saying Peyton shouldn't be the #1 pick because he didn't win the Heisman or National Championship.
Never said he shouldnt have been the no.1 pick...he deserved to be for whatever reasons. Point still is that you could look at the facts and performance and make the arguement hes been overated. Doesnt mean he isnt a very good QB.
People, just go with the hypathetical scenerio. Think carefully cause im not talking about a fantasy football title...a SB title. Your life is on the line...who would you pick to lead your given team in that SB? For starters im going with Montana, Young, Elway, Brady...shit id even take Eli, yes big-game Eli over Peyton.
People, just go with the hypathetical scenerio. Think carefully cause im not talking about a fantasy football title...a SB title. Your life is on the line...who would you pick to lead your given team in that SB? For starters im going with Montana, Young, Elway, Brady...shit id even take Eli, yes big-game Eli over Peyton.
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
If you didn't outright say it, you certainly implied it.
I'd be fine with any of those guys except Eli- Peyton has led tons of clutch comebacks in his career, including a massive comeback against the Pats in the AFC Ch game. There's no reason to assume he's psychologically incapable of leading a team to victory. "Clutch" is a nebulous concept mostly constructed by circumstances. Personally I don't put too much weight on it.
And the Eli comp is just silly. Come on, your a Pats fan, right? Eli threw an int right into the hands of Asante's hands on the last drive of the Super Bowl and he just dropped it. If Asante catches that pass no one on the planet picks Eli over Peyton. I'd take Peyton all day over Eli.
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
Orlando Pace has almost as many All-Pro selections as Manning (5 to 6).
Yeah Pace is the only other #1 pick from that era that was truly great. A corner stone of the Greatest Show on Turf and one of the best tackles of the era. Still, I'd take Manning over Pace in a heartbeat.
Crims, he defnly deserved the no1 pick that year. Just think the stats, wins against top rivals, hardware sometimes goes along with being a no1. Maybe he was the default no.1 that year lol. He nailed the rest of the SEC but bet he would trade in some of those wins in for better performance and results against Fla.
Good points Eli v Peyton etc...i can understand that.
Mentally tough, clutch performer, there is no exact way to figure and its so subjective. This era is known for goddy stats being put up by the top QBs. of course the stats come with being great. Yet i think too many get caught up in the numbers, fantasy stats etc. Sometimes it is simply about the eye test, not goddy numbers, but simply being steady and not making big mistakes at critical times. Dont get me wrong ive enjoyed the shit out of Peyton, Brady et al slinging it around the yard at will...but at times id rather see 250yds 2tds and more importantly 0 ints especially in the big games.
Good points Eli v Peyton etc...i can understand that.
Mentally tough, clutch performer, there is no exact way to figure and its so subjective. This era is known for goddy stats being put up by the top QBs. of course the stats come with being great. Yet i think too many get caught up in the numbers, fantasy stats etc. Sometimes it is simply about the eye test, not goddy numbers, but simply being steady and not making big mistakes at critical times. Dont get me wrong ive enjoyed the shit out of Peyton, Brady et al slinging it around the yard at will...but at times id rather see 250yds 2tds and more importantly 0 ints especially in the big games.
If Tyree doesn't make that ridiculous catch, and Asante makes an easy catch, no one cares about Eli. Also, Pace vs Peyton is an pretty tough call.
Young is on your short clutch list? Really?
Young is on your short clutch list? Really?
Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
Yeah, no problem at all with Young in that setting.
Believe me ive relived and had numerous nitemares with those plays. Yes the Giants were very fortunate. But too many times we say "if and buts". I still have to give Eli credit for overall performance and having something to do with making the plays.
Young is vastly overrated then. He played on a stacked team before the salary cap era that got a lone SB win against a vastly overmatched San Diego team, that overplayed in the playoffs just to get there.
I've been saying all along that Eli is more Dilfer than Peyton and I stand by it. He is consistently a mid 80s QBR passer who has benefitted from an absurd amount of different anomalies. Whether it's miracle catches, miracles drops, outlier YAC statistics, or a defense that suddenly plays over it's head, he has been an undeserving benefitter. The most positive, honest, assessment of Eli is he is careful with the ball, but he is absolutely not prolific in any sense of the word. So was Dilfer.
I've been saying all along that Eli is more Dilfer than Peyton and I stand by it. He is consistently a mid 80s QBR passer who has benefitted from an absurd amount of different anomalies. Whether it's miracle catches, miracles drops, outlier YAC statistics, or a defense that suddenly plays over it's head, he has been an undeserving benefitter. The most positive, honest, assessment of Eli is he is careful with the ball, but he is absolutely not prolific in any sense of the word. So was Dilfer.
More good points.
I get Eli overall looks very average. Yet his SB performances may get overlooked a bit. Very good numbers, solid leader, two time SB mvp. He wasnt just along for the ride...had a big part. Some fall right into winning one...doing it again is key for me. Even though the wins were kind of flukey...means Brady could easily have 5 rings. Thats if i can add my own "if n buts". See how i worked that in there nicely. ; )
I get Eli overall looks very average. Yet his SB performances may get overlooked a bit. Very good numbers, solid leader, two time SB mvp. He wasnt just along for the ride...had a big part. Some fall right into winning one...doing it again is key for me. Even though the wins were kind of flukey...means Brady could easily have 5 rings. Thats if i can add my own "if n buts". See how i worked that in there nicely. ; )
mdmatt4ever
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not sure any point is being made here. tom brady was pretty much average at best in college and now he plays in a system that made matt cassell look like the next coming of john elway or something. peyton manning is the best QB in the nfl the last 15 years hands down. the main thing he has to back it up other than brees, brady, rodgers, etc are never going to catch his numbers is that peyton played for 2 different teams and has been a success for both showing everyone he has the skills. brees was pretty average with the chargers and more than likely rodgers and brady will play their entire career with the same team. i'm not even a broncos/colts or patriots fan.
mdmatt4ever
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you do know over the last 2 seasons only mark sanchez has more turnovers than eli manning right
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
I feel like beating that mediocre Chargers team was more than made up for by beating the Cowboys team. Back then, everyone used to call the NFC Ch game "the real Super Bowl." The 49ers and Cowboys were so far above everyone else it wasn't even funny. And Young was extraordinary in 94, but that also might have been the best team since the 85 Bears. They were just stacked at every position. It was defintely the beat team I ever saw. I think they started out 3-2 and after that destroyed just about everybody.
you do know over the last 2 seasons only mark sanchez has more turnovers than eli manning right
Ok, check that, Eli actually looks below average...until he gets to the SB lol.
If you say Peyton is the greatest with a 9-11 playoff record and 8 one and dones...then I guess youre making my point. Peyton is overated. And you clearly underate Mr Tom Brady.
This is very true. Those NFC games, playoffs etc were some of the best football ive ever seen. Yes the 9ers were stacked but Montana and Young were both elite leading other elites.
mdmatt4ever
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when brees was with the chargers his numbers were pretty much on pace with an average nfl QBs stats. go look it up. he had 1 great season and the rest of the time he was on par with any other average QB in the nfl. i'm not sure he even average 3,000 yards per season with the chargers yet not he's averaging over 4,000 with the saints.
mdmatt4ever
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peyton has a better completion % and about 15,000 more yards than brady and over 100 more TDs. there total QB rating is virtually the same. no one playing today is ever going to catch peytons numbers.
