Question about God.

[bleakrose]

The problem with any argument for or against the existence of god is that it is not absolutely deterministic.There is allways an answer and it really comes down to wether you believe or not.

Regarding your question.That argument is old and has many variations (like:can god create a stone wich he himself cannot lift?).First,how do you define god? Like an omnipotent being.

Well,omnipotence itself means that he can create that stone,and that at the same time you can and you can't lift it.If you are defining god like a being that posses omnipotence you are saying that he can do that.

I think the real problem comes when you think that a being of this characteristics cannot exist.But merely the fact that there is no "logical" answer to this paradox doesn't mean that no-one has to have it.God is beyond human reason,and human reason is very limitated. when it applies to reality,maths (and logic for that matter) are not exact sciences.If that itself denied god's existence,well the very concept of the paradox should not exist at all.

 

[krofius]

The problem with any argument for or against the existence of god is that it is not absolutely deterministic.There is allways an answer and it really comes down to wether you believe or not.

Regarding your question.That argument is old and has many variations (like:can god create a stone wich he himself cannot lift?).First,how do you define god? Like an omnipotent being.

Well,omnipotence itself means that he can create that stone,and that at the same time you can and you can't lift it.If you are defining god like a being that posses omnipotence you are saying that he can do that.

I think the real problem comes when you think that a being of this characteristics cannot exist.But merely the fact that there is no "logical" answer to this paradox doesn't mean that no-one has to have it.God is beyond human reason,and human reason is very limitated. when it applies to reality,maths (and logic for that matter) are not exact sciences.If that itself denied god's existence,well the very concept of the paradox should not exist at all.

^ What he says

 

[monoxide_child]

The problem with any argument for or against the existence of god is that it is not absolutely deterministic.There is allways an answer and it really comes down to wether you believe or not.

Regarding your question.That argument is old and has many variations (like:can god create a stone wich he himself cannot lift?).First,how do you define god? Like an omnipotent being.

Well,omnipotence itself means that he can create that stone,and that at the same time you can and you can't lift it.If you are defining god like a being that posses omnipotence you are saying that he can do that.

I think the real problem comes when you think that a being of this characteristics cannot exist.But merely the fact that there is no "logical" answer to this paradox doesn't mean that no-one has to have it.God is beyond human reason,and human reason is very limitated. when it applies to reality,maths (and logic for that matter) are not exact sciences.If that itself denied god's existence,well the very concept of the paradox should not exist at all.

what if God really exists?
what if the explination for him not making himself visible to us is because he can't?
what if there are no miracles because God has no power?
then, should we still call him "God"?

 

[bleakrose]

what if the explination for him not making himself visible to us is because he can't?

what if there are no miracles because God has no power?
then, should we still call him "God"?

It depends on what you define as god.The christians (among wich i'm incluided) and jewish peopple see god as an omnipotent being,who created mankind in infinite love and wisdom.But i'm afraid that if god has no power,then we would never know.

what if God really exists?

¿How would you define god?
¿The christian god? ¿Someone whose abilities and knowledge are far superior to humans but that can't do anything? ¿Someone who lives in another 'realm'? ¿Someone who is in heaven? ¿Do you think that heaven exists?

The fact that god is omnipotent or not and the fact that he exists or not,depends on what do you think it is.There are religions that say god is all that exists(pantheism)....and there are also religions that see him,not as an entity but as 'esence' (the taoists for example).I can't answer your questions based on the jewish/christian conception of god because,your concept differs from it.
If no there is no one with the characteristics of the jewish/christian god then that god does not exist.But then again,that is impossible to prove.

 

[derek]

You've just argued from inside your own box, and that's not all that helpful.

 

[bleakrose]

You've just argued from inside your own box, and that's not all that helpful.

Hmmm,no,i just stated that those questions can't be answered if he doesn't define what does he mean when he says god.

I define god as: 'being that posseses qualities X,Z and Q'.
But if he is saying:¿What if god hasn't got Q? Then to me that is not god.My god wouldn't exist and his will.
We are talking about two different beings.

monoxide_child's idea was that if god hasn't got P and Q,then he is not god or he does no exist.But then this is a question similar to: "If an 'arkwdl' is not red,and if it is not round,and if it's not made of glass...Should we still call it 'arkwdl'".
First,you have to define what 'arkwdl' is.

 

[derek]

You're still in that box, but you've managed to be less succinct.

 

[bleakrose]

You're still in that box, but you've managed to be less succinct.

I'm not quite getting it ¿What do you mean by that?

 

[derek]

God = The God of the Old (and new) Testaments. All other formulations are mistaken interpretations of this singular (correct) interpretation.

 

[monoxide_child]

God = The God of the Old (and new) Testaments. All other formulations are mistaken interpretations of this singular (correct) interpretation.

so
if we were to have a conversation about pagan deities, then that should be a whole new thread?

 

[derek]

I wasn't making a statement regarding my beliefs, but rather the box I was talking about before.

 

[monoxide_child]

I wasn't making a statement regarding my beliefs, but rather the box I was talking about before.

yeah, that makes more sense than what i thought you meant

 

[bleakrose]

God = The God of the Old (and new) Testaments. All other formulations are mistaken interpretations of this singular (correct) interpretation.

I think it's you who's in a box,then.

Religion does not end in christianism.That's why i asked monoxide_child what does he mean when he says god and i asked him if he meant the christian god,or the muslim god,or the taoist god,etc.I think it was clear enough to anyone that i was asking him for his own definition of god and not purpossing that the only possible interpretation of god is mine.

 

[monoxide_child]

what if God really exists?
what if the explination for him not making himself visible to us is because he can't?
what if there are no miracles because God has no power?
then, should we still call him "God"?

this ^ is something i stole from another forum
does this answer everybody's questions?

 

[monoxide_child]

I think it's you who's in a box,then.

Religion does not end in christianism.That's why i asked monoxide_child what does he mean when he says god and i asked him if he meant the christian god,or the muslim god,or the taoist god,etc.I think it was clear enough to anyone that i was asking him for his own definition of god and not purpossing that the only possible interpretation of god is mine.

i believe that ALL of the entities that we would refer to as "gods" actually exist
the text of ten comandments seems to indicate that the "pagan" deities actually existed, but that that we were not allowed to worship them, in addition to not being allowed to worship "idols"

 

[Blowtus]

this ^ is something i stole from another forum
does this answer everybody's questions?

Positing an impotent omnipotent entity doesn't seem the clearest way out of a logical paradox...

 

[derek]

I think it's you who's in a box,then.

Religion does not end in christianism.That's why i asked monoxide_child what does he mean when he says god and i asked him if he meant the christian god,or the muslim god,or the taoist god,etc.I think it was clear enough to anyone that i was asking him for his own definition of god and not purpossing that the only possible interpretation of god is mine.

Please, read the post where I stated that was not my belief.

 

[monoxide_child]

It depends on what you define as god.The christians (among wich i'm incluided) and jewish peopple see god as an omnipotent being,who created mankind in infinite love and wisdom.But i'm afraid that if god has no power,then we would never know.



¿How would you define god?
¿The christian god? ¿Someone whose abilities and knowledge are far superior to humans but that can't do anything? ¿Someone who lives in another 'realm'? ¿Someone who is in heaven? ¿Do you think that heaven exists?

The fact that god is omnipotent or not and the fact that he exists or not,depends on what do you think it is.There are religions that say god is all that exists(pantheism)....and there are also religions that see him,not as an entity but as 'esence' (the taoists for example).I can't answer your questions based on the jewish/christian conception of god because,your concept differs from it.
If no there is no one with the characteristics of the jewish/christian god then that god does not exist.But then again,that is impossible to prove.

Judeo-Christianity is a cult, but i believe that there are other deity-type entities in existence

 

[bleakrose]

Please, read the post where I stated that was not my belief.

I did read it,but i said you were in the box because you were arguing about something that was already clarified in my post.You said that i was arguing only from the christian conception of god,but then....why would i ask someone for a definition of god if i'm willing to impose my own vision? That would make absolutely no sense.

Judeo-Christianity is a cult, but i believe that there are other deity-type entities in existence

But you believe in one of them,in none of them or just that there are many gods (in other words are you politheist? or you believe in minor deistic entities like angels,and stuff?).
That is if im not misstaking your post wich at this time of the night is very probable.

 

[derek]

The ecumenical movement actively engages folks of other religions with the precise aim of telling them they're wrong, so it would make some sense if you did too.