Question On Theory

[Earth Breather]

I am just nearing the beginning of my 3rd year of high school. I was thinking of getting a head start on learning theory instead of waiting and just learning it at Musicians Institute (Where I will be going after I graduate). But apart of me thinks that I should just wait and get a better grasp of it from proffessionals instead of learning it myself.

 

[War_Blade]

We have something in common. I don't really know what your trying to ask but i am also entering my third year of highschool and taking music theory for the first time. except when i graduate im going to pull a malmsteen, and fly to japan with only a guitar and an extra pair of jeans.

 

[Earth Breather]

We have something in common. I don't really know what your trying to ask but i am also entering my third year of highschool and taking music theory for the first time. except when i graduate im going to pull a malmsteen, and fly to japan with only a guitar and an extra pair of jeans.

Paul Gilbert teaches at Musicians Institute, oh and as well as the one in Japan.

why wait, the more stuff you learn/sooner the better you can be and understand the stuff/ apply it to your playing, plus I"m 1/2 way done with my music degree and let me tell you the theory they teach you is classical and by the books, going at a fast rate, college is a business keep in mind, you will learn for sure but i still belive a good private teacher /books and other resources will make you a better overall player in the realworld.

Hmm, ok, I have Mel Bay's Guitar Method Grade 1. So I will just learn everything from that. Should I really get to know all of the notes on the fretboard first before I jump into theory?

 

[War_Blade]

lol, i own that book also....

Do what i do, just learn a new note every day. Before you know, it you will have it down.

 

[Yngvai X]

Paul Gilbert teaches at Musicians Institute, oh and as well as the one in Japan.

Not anymore, afaik, unless he just went back recently, or unless you're refering to clinics.

Learn as much as you can when you can. You are *always* a student, whether you are in the classroom or reading theory books or looking on websites. Never forget that.

 

[Yngvai X]

except when i graduate im going to pull a malmsteen, and fly to japan with only a guitar and an extra pair of jeans.

You might want to take a japanese/english dictionary and phrase book as well

Do what i do, just learn a new note every day. Before you know, it you will have it down.

There is a much simpler way to learning the fretboard, which is what I teach my students.

First, know all the notes on your low E and A cold. This is the only real "memorization" needed. To find a note on the D string, all you need to know is how to play an octave between the D and low E (which is simple, from the E, jump to the D, and go up a whole step (two frets). The same formula works from the A to the G. For the B, find the note on the D string, then jump to the B and go up a step and a half (3 frets). Theres your octave from the D to B string. The same goes for the G to high E, but since you already know the low E, the high E is the same.

The idea is what I call the "telephone number" method (this analogy might be becoming defunct due to cell phone phonebooks tho). When someone gives you a phone number, do you sit and memorize it? No, you write it down, and when you need to dial it, you go find it. Well, lets say this person becomes a pretty good friend and you're calling him/her often. By just dialing the number over and over you gradually just remember it. So, by using the octave method to find the notes on your fretboard, gradually, you will start to be able to find them cold.

 

[Earth Breather]

Haha wow that may actually work.
..and yes, I was referreing to the clinics.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Um... I'm with Matt. Learning the notes on the fretboard in a logical way is the best way to go about it, then you don't have to put effort into remembering. Learning "a note a day" is gonna make the task way more daunting, and the fretboard won't make sense in your mind.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

You might want to take a japanese/english dictionary and phrase book as well



There is a much simpler way to learning the fretboard, which is what I teach my students.

First, know all the notes on your low E and A cold. This is the only real "memorization" needed. To find a note on the D string, all you need to know is how to play an octave between the D and low E (which is simple, from the E, jump to the D, and go up a whole step (two frets). The same formula works from the A to the G. For the B, find the note on the D string, then jump to the B and go up a step and a half (3 frets). Theres your octave from the D to B string. The same goes for the G to high E, but since you already know the low E, the high E is the same.

The idea is what I call the "telephone number" method (this analogy might be becoming defunct due to cell phone phonebooks tho). When someone gives you a phone number, do you sit and memorize it? No, you write it down, and when you need to dial it, you go find it. Well, lets say this person becomes a pretty good friend and you're calling him/her often. By just dialing the number over and over you gradually just remember it. So, by using the octave method to find the notes on your fretboard, gradually, you will start to be able to find them cold.

That seems like a pretty good idea. I've always delayed learning the fretboard cos it just seemed like too much of a task, but now it seems like less of one. thx .

One thing i've always wondered is that once u know the fretboard, will it just seem totally natural or will things like the repetition of notes and stuff like that still slow u down?? With the piano I'm fully comfortable with improv and stuff cos there is only 1 of every note, and the notes are easy to remember........so yeh just curious as to how different it will be once I know the notes.

 

[Yngvai X]

One thing i've always wondered is that once u know the fretboard, will it just seem totally natural or will things like the repetition of notes and stuff like that still slow u down?? With the piano I'm fully comfortable with improv and stuff cos there is only 1 of every note, and the notes are easy to remember........so yeh just curious as to how different it will be once I know the notes.

To be honest, when I'm improvising, I don't see the "notes" per se, I see the patterns of whatever scale I can use on the fretboard.

 

[Krakatau]

You can go to Musicians Institute without even knowing theory?

The telephone number method Yngvai X described is exactly what I do to find the notes on the fret board too.

And when you know the fret board, you will know that a note will sound the same on each string if it's in the same octave. It depends on how you blend it all together in your improvising.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

There are different patterns for each scale though. Like if u wanted to go from the lowest note to the highest then its obvious what sorta pattern you would do, but say you could chose either to start from the 12th fret on the low e string or the 7th string of the next one (without really knowing where you are going) and you are currently half way between these 2, then does this become confusing at all when you KNOW that u need an e and there are 2 options just as far away??? I'm just talkin about impulse. I've never really had to use impulse for guitar so thats why i'm asking.

 

[War_Blade]

You might want to take a japanese/english dictionary and phrase book as well



There is a much simpler way to learning the fretboard, which is what I teach my students.

First, know all the notes on your low E and A cold. This is the only real "memorization" needed. To find a note on the D string, all you need to know is how to play an octave between the D and low E (which is simple, from the E, jump to the D, and go up a whole step (two frets). The same formula works from the A to the G. For the B, find the note on the D string, then jump to the B and go up a step and a half (3 frets). Theres your octave from the D to B string. The same goes for the G to high E, but since you already know the low E, the high E is the same.

The idea is what I call the "telephone number" method (this analogy might be becoming defunct due to cell phone phonebooks tho). When someone gives you a phone number, do you sit and memorize it? No, you write it down, and when you need to dial it, you go find it. Well, lets say this person becomes a pretty good friend and you're calling him/her often. By just dialing the number over and over you gradually just remember it. So, by using the octave method to find the notes on your fretboard, gradually, you will start to be able to find them cold.

nah, i'm actually learning japanese right now.


But, that method seems awesome, I'm gonna start working on it.

 

[Yngvai X]

There are different patterns for each scale though. Like if u wanted to go from the lowest note to the highest then its obvious what sorta pattern you would do, but say you could chose either to start from the 12th fret on the low e string or the 7th string of the next one (without really knowing where you are going) and you are currently half way between these 2, then does this become confusing at all when you KNOW that u need an e and there are 2 options just as far away??? I'm just talkin about impulse. I've never really had to use impulse for guitar so thats why i'm asking.

Think of it like a light switch. If I'm soloing in say, E aeolian, all the possible notes of E aeolian are lighting up for me on the fretboard. If at any given time I want to switch to say, B half/whole diminished, the E aeolian lights shut off and the B half/whole diminished lights turn on. So it really doesn't matter what scale I'm playing in. I know where the "sweet spots" are as far as resolving a line, for example the root or 5th of the scale, so if Im doing a run, I know where to go to make it resolve intelligently. If you fuck up...do your best to make the fuck up sound like it was on purpose .

 

[Horus]

But a spontaneous key change can end up sounding really wierd though. Wouldn't it?

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

I think he's talking about playing through chord changes, or switching scales during a solo. Basically, you can look at the fretboard and visualize whatever scales and patterns you want. It's what makes guitar such a good instrument for improvisation.

If you fuck up...do your best to make the fuck up sound like it was on purpose.

Just repeat it a few times, and people might mistake it for genius!

 

[fallen2289]

I am entering into my third year of high school as well, and I suggest that you just learn scales, and scale-chord theory so that you know when to apply which scale(s) to which chord(s). That's all soloing is, just playing notes over chord changes. Analyse Symphony X solos and you can see chord progressions and solos and how they work together. For example, I analysed the Damnation Game guitar solos and they are in G Harmonic Minor. Though Michael could have used many other scales due to the simplicity of the backing rhythm, he chose to use G Harmonic Minor, for 95% of the solo. Some of the notes were not in G harmonic minor, but used as passing tones. That is another thing about faster solos, it is much harder to hear when someone goes out of key, even delibrately due to the distorted overtones. Music has many possibilities, and you should explore different chord progressions and see what fits over them first hand, while still giving thought to musicality.

 

[Yngvai X]

I am entering into my third year of high school as well, and I suggest that you just learn scales, and scale-chord theory so that you know when to apply which scale(s) to which chord(s). That's all soloing is, just playing notes over chord changes.

True, but thats also like saying "thats all writing is, just writing words on a piece of paper." The single most important aspect of soloing is phrasing. A good way to understand phrasing is to deconstruct a solo by a a guitarist you like. Take note of how the solo is constructed. Where the guitarist throws in the more melodic stuff and where he puts the flash. How the solo starts builds and climaxes, etc. Where he pauses (space is just as important than actually playing something). The cool thing is, this doesn't just apply to written solos; killer improvisers will be able to do all of this off the cuff as well (much like how you can have an intriguing spontaneous conversation with someone).

Steve Morse has been writing some really good columns in Guitar World recently about this topic, and I highly suggest everyone regardless of skill level check them out, because if theres anyone who knows about good phrasing its Steve.

Analyse Symphony X solos and you can see chord progressions and solos and how they work together. For example, I analysed the Damnation Game guitar solos and they are in G Harmonic Minor. Though Michael could have used many other scales due to the simplicity of the backing rhythm, he chose to use G Harmonic Minor, for 95% of the solo. Some of the notes were not in G harmonic minor, but used as passing tones. That is another thing about faster solos, it is much harder to hear when someone goes out of key, even delibrately due to the distorted overtones. Music has many possibilities, and you should explore different chord progressions and see what fits over them first hand, while still giving thought to musicality.

Well, you're close. Romeo's solos in that song would be in D phrygian dominant, not G harmonic minor. Yes they are the same scale, but the tonality he is playing over (D) suggests the 5th mode of harmonic minor. You wouldn't play a C major scale over a D root and still call it C major, it would be D Dorian.

 

[fallen2289]

Actually that solo could also be in D# Lydian#9, because the rhythm suggests to that note, but not as much as D Phrygian Dom. They are all relative so it doesn't matter too much.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

lol, modes are annoying. I prefer to know what scale i'm in but just keep the dominant note in the back of my mind and revolve around it loosely. I think mjr has a similar approach if i remember correctly.