Resurrected Power Metal Thread

[Krigloch the Furious]

good god man

 

[UltimateApathy]

good god man

Thatawkwardmoment when you lose an argument and feel like an idiot

 

[Einherjar86]

Orden Ogan are pretty good and that song you posted was certainly quite solid, but let's be honest about various aspects of the music: their orchestral/symphonic work is not as mind-blowing as Haggard, Fairyland, or Celesty, their choirs aren't a powerfully epic as Bride Adorned, Blind Guardian, Thy Majestie, or Therion, their keyboards aren't as blisteringly-good as Balflare, Sonata Artica, or Children Of Bodom, their guitar solos aren't as technically-complex as Pathfinder, Rhapsody of Fire or Dragonforce, they don't have the soaring operatic vocals of (again) Pathfinder or early Nightwish and they aren't as brutal or intense as Wintersun or Ensiferum - they're just reasonably decent in all the above categories, but master of none.

Is "mind-blowing" a universally applicable reaction? In other words, does your mind being blown somehow translate that all minds must be blown? I find your "mind-blown-ness" unconvincing.

As misguided as you may be, I'm just curious: which bands do you think turned into "absolute shit" and which do you think were that way to begin with?

Sure, I'll bite.

Pathfinder

Shit.

Thy Majestie

Turned to shit after Jeanne d'Arc.

Sabaton

Turned to shit after Coat of Arms.

Ensiferum

Shit after Victory Songs.

Dragonland

Never liked them.

Freedom Call

Turned to shit after The Circle of Life.

Wuthering Heights

Balflare

Sounds like every other fucking power metal band ever.

Luca Turilli

Abandoned solo project. Last album was shit anyway.

Stratovarius

Never cared for them that much. Last decent albums were the Elements releases.

Keldian

I like these guys, but we'll see how their next album is (it's been a while...).

Ancient Bards

First album was meh. Second one sucked.

Sunrise

Celesty

Bride Adorned

Shit.

Fairyland

Last album was good! Haven't heard anything in years...

Therion

Shit (and I mean SHIT) after Kristian Niemann left.

Rhapsody Of Fire

Gods, they're just old.

Haggard

Never anything great about these guys.

Children Of Bodom

Pretty much shit since Follow the Reaper.

Sonata Arctica

Shit since Reckoning Night.

Nightwish (old)

Exactly! Old! Their newest release was shit.

Elvenking

Shit since Wyrd.

Dragonforce

Seriously??? You're putting a band like Dragonforce over fucking Orden Ogan? Dragonforce? The most formulaic, generic band in the fucking genre?

Gamma Ray

Meh.

Epica

Shit.

Helloween

Shit since Keeper II.

Blind Guardian

Last album was good, but they're nothing new.

Power Quest

Holy Knights

Battlelore

Iced Earth

All turned to shit, all of them. Don't care at all.

Amorphis

Not fucking power metal.

It blows my mind that in that entire list you didn't once mention KIUAS.



Their lead singer left; unfortunately, I don't really expect much more stuff like this from them...

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

Thanks man.
I started to respond last night, then realized I didn't care.
Alot of the shit he posted is old. And Ensiferum, CoB, and Wintersun aren't powermetal.
So much of that stuff is just standard boring powermetal. Meh. That's what the genre has become.

 

[UltimateApathy]

While I would certainly agree with you that a fair number of the bands on that list have experienced a gradual decline in music quality over time: that is overwhelmingly the general progression pattern that most Metal bands follow in their lifespan (it's far more often that a band gets worse over time rather than improve), this is not a phenomenon that is unique to Power Metal by any means, and you also seem to view the musical world in very black and white absolutist terms in that if a band makes any album that isn't as good as their earlier stuff it automatically is classed as unlistenable garbage - any reasonable listener would agree that as in life there are many shades of gray, there are also many shades of musical enjoyment. "A little worse than their earlier stuff" does not inevitably equal "shit." Celesty (mentioned-above) is one of those rare bands that has actually gotten far better over time, their first couple of albums were largely forgettable but then they started incoporating excellent orchestral and choir elements into their music later to produce masterpieces such as these:





"Mind-blowing" is obviously not universally-applicable but the point I was trying to make is this: I think most of us would agree that truly great bands exceedingly excel in at least musical aspect, be it guitars, keyboards, orchestras, choirs, drumming, or vocals. Basically every band I have on that list excels in at least one or more of these disciplines, so I was wondering which one(s) you think Orden Ogan excels in?

 

[UltimateApathy]

Oh, and you immediately lost any credibility with regard to your opinion of Power Metal when you mentioned that you think Pathfinder is "shit." I remember looking at dozens of reviews after they released their 2010 album "Beyond the Space, Beyond the Time" and basically every single one was rating it 8/10, 9/10, and even some 10/10. I was a member of a Power Metal forum then and I remember clearly how everyone was going crazy over it too, it's a landmark Power Metal album: incredible speed, technicality, and complexity, a male vocalist with tremendous flexibility and a female vocalist with a soaring operatic style, powerful choirs and orchestral compositions, and rip-roaring guitar and keyboard solos. It doesn't get any better than this:





One of the best ballads I've ever heard:

P.S. Saying that you really like Fairyland but hate Pathfinder makes about as much sense as saying that the Pope enjoys orgies (not because Fairyland are bad but because the two bands are so similar in style).

 

[UltimateApathy]

Another thought to chew on: Haggard are the band that use the most accomplished orchestral compositions of any band in all of Power Metal, while Bride Adorned spent over 5 years producing that album because they used several real actual choirs in the recording and had to mix it all together in the perfect combination of epic beauty. Before you dismiss bands with such technical prowess so off-handedly, you may want to consider being more open-minded, or at least appreciative of the passionate and intensive effort that goes into the creation of such music.

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

The pope is a male human being, I'm sure he would enjoy an orgy.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Thanks man.
I started to respond last night, then realized I didn't care about wrong I was.
And Ensiferum, CoB, and Wintersun aren't powermetal.
So much of that stuff is just standard boring powermetal.

According to Wikipdedia, "leading critics" have classified Children Of Bodom as Power Metal. I've also seen it discussed in Power Metal forums before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Bodom
When I posted a Wintersun song in the Death Metal topic on this very forum, everyone whined about how it's actually Power Metal. Wikipedia agrees, go check.
Ensiferum are folk metal (just like Elvenking) which is similar enough to Power Metal to be posted here, especially since there isn't even a folk metal thread on this forum. Point is, you were wrong on 2 outta 3 counts there, son.

I know this may be difficult for you to manage, but go back and read exactly why I think most of those bands aren't "standard boring Power Metal". You know, the part where I referred to the different musical aspects that the various bands excel in (orchestra/keyboards/guitar/choirs/vocals/drumming). I would consider standard Power Metal to be something like Hammerfall where they don't really have any uniquely excellent elements thrown into the mix, although their music isn't terrible either.

Furthermore, if you consider "standard Power metal" to be "boring" then why are you even bothering to lurk in this topic? I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of stuff posted in the Death Metal/Black Metal/Slam Death Metal/etc topics is also all relatively standard and similar, so why not also go troll in those topics about people posting so much "standard boring (insert name here) metal?"

 

[Krow]

Stop posting YouTube videos jackass no one is fucking watching them.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Quit whining and say something relative to the topic, lad.

 

[Einherjar86]

Wow. Well, there's no way I'm listening to all that shit that I've already listened to anyway.

Orden Ogan just writes damn good songs. I don't care how rip-roaring a band's solos are, or how blistering its keyboards are, or how epic its choirs are. If they don't write good songs, I'm not listening to them. Fairyland writes way better songs than Pathfinder. And I don't care how many years a band spends recording an album just so they can have real choirs; I'll take fake choirs in better songs, please.

 

[matt schrauben]

I love Sonata Arctica's releases after Reckoning Night. Unia is a progressive/power masterpiece. It takes a while to soak in, but once you give it the listens it deserves it pays off. The Days of Greys was a fantastic release that was really dark for Sonata Arctica, they took a risk there and it paid off.

Their newest album 'Stones Grow Her Name' is amazing. It's a good mix of the old and new style they have and not only do I think it's one of their best albums, but it was a contender for album of the year last year for me.

 

[Einherjar86]

I couldn't stand Unia. The only thing Sonata Arctica really had going for them was that their songs were fun. After Reckoning Night, the fun factor decreased dramatically.

 

[matt schrauben]

I couldn't stand Unia. The only thing Sonata Arctica really had going for them was that their songs were fun. After Reckoning Night, the fun factor decreased dramatically.

Yeah, I wasn't sold on Unia right a way. It took several listens to soak in and really appreciate what was going on.

I can see where you though the 'fun' factor was gone. The two albums 'Unia' and especially 'The Days of Grays' were pretty dark for Sonata Arctica.

Have you give 'Stones Grow Her Name' a spin? I have and would still describe that album as 'fun'.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Wow. Well, there's no way I'm listening to all that shit that I've already listened to anyway.

Orden Ogan just writes damn good songs. I don't care how rip-roaring a band's solos are, or how blistering its keyboards are, or how epic its choirs are. If they don't write good songs, I'm not listening to them. Fairyland writes way better songs than Pathfinder. And I don't care how many years a band spends recording an album just so they can have real choirs; I'll take fake choirs in better songs, please.

On the surface of it, musical appreciation is purely subjective and can be defined only by things as ethereal and undefineable as emotion or mood, which is why, if we want to truly examine the nature of musical appreciation and explain it to others, we should explore certain measurable aspects of it in order to be more persuasive in our arguments.

Technical prowess and musical complexity can in fact be measured in scientific/mathematic terms that don't involve illogical themes such as mood or emotion, which is why I have mentionined superb keyboard/guitar/orchestral/vocal/choir/drumming skills in relation to such terms. You're basically broadly defining songs as "good" or "shit" based purely upon your opinion without any corroborating evidence which is not very convincing at all.

I also get the impression that you tend to rush to judgement upon music very quickly and refuse to even listen to the same music twice. I never write off music as "junk" upon the first listen unless it's cheesy pop music or something obviously trashy like that, and I find that I can only appreciate the true quality of the music after several listens - open-mindedness is indeed a virtue in the modern world.

Lastly, although this might surprise you, I don't actually dislike Orden Ogan by any means, I think they're very decent but not quite as good as some of the best Power Metal bands out there. Here are two of my favorite songs by them:

 

[matt schrauben]

I must say that I've definitley have learned to not write off things so quickly recently. I've been revisiting bands and albums I didn't care for a few years back and have found I truly enjoy most of them.

I try to give each album I purchase at least 5 thorough listens before making a decision on whether I like it or not. I've found most albums worth listening too take several listens to soak in.

 

[Einherjar86]

I can see where you though the 'fun' factor was gone. The two albums 'Unia' and especially 'The Days of Grays' were pretty dark for Sonata Arctica.

Have you give 'Stones Grow Her Name' a spin? I have and would still describe that album as 'fun'.

Only a few songs. I checked them out on YouTube when it came out. I just think they don't offer what I'm looking for anymore; I really only still listen to Ecliptica, and even that only... I mean, I've probably listened to it once in the past three years.

Technical prowess and musical complexity can in fact be measured in scientific/mathematic terms that don't involve illogical themes such as mood or emotion, which is why I have mentionined superb keyboard/guitar/orchestral/vocal/choir/drumming skills in relation to such terms. You're basically broadly defining songs as "good" or "shit" based purely upon your opinion without any corroborating evidence which is not very convincing at all.

Well, I'll apologize if it offended you; but technical skill doesn't translate into good music, in my opinion. I think that Steve Vai is a hell of a guitar player, but I can't listen to him for more than two to three minutes. Songwriting is more than jacking off on your instrument. Especially in power metal, there's an attitude to the songwriting that's just absent in most bands today. I'd say it's even absent in bands like Keldian, even though I like them (I don't really consider them metal, to be honest). I think Fairyland tapped into it on their last release; I think Kiuas always had it; I think Hibria had it on their first album; I think Orden Ogan drove it home on their most recent record; bands like Running Wild kind of embodied it... I just don't think lots of contemporary power metal bands have it.

I also get the impression that you tend to rush to judgement upon music very quickly and refuse to even listen to the same music twice. I never write off music as "junk" upon the first listen unless it's cheesy pop music or something obviously trashy like that, and I find that I can only appreciate the true quality of the music after several listens - open-mindedness is indeed a virtue in the modern world.

Well, I've been listening to metal since high school. I listened to Pathfinder (just an example) for the first time when Beyond the Space Beyond the Time came out. Several times since then I visited their songs on YouTube; they never did anything for me. I bought Unia on the basis that I really liked Sonata Arctica at that time; I'll probably never listen to any Sonata Arctica again based on what I've heard since Reckoning Night, even Ecliptica. There's just an attitude that's disappeared from most power metal bands today.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

technical skill is so overrated.. in all genres
Sonata Arctica is just too pussy for me. It's almost pop-metal
Nothing catches me and pulls me in anymore
Pathfinder has some cool shit, the singer is unreal! But I get tired of the overdone keyboard stuff.
It's like the newschool overproduced death metal scene. dudes, tone it down!
I hear Pathfinder compared to my favorite Heavenly albums and you can tell the difference. Too many keyboard tracks, I want to hear the guitars! Heavenly brings out just enough heavyness for me to fall in love. (of course im talking about "Sign of the Winner" and "Dust to Dust")

Wish Hibria didnt turn to shit, absolutely loved "Defying the Rules"

Been waiting on a new Pyramaze with Urban Breed on vocals, dunno if it will ever be made.

 

[matt schrauben]

Well, I'll apologize if it offended you; but technical skill doesn't translate into good music, in my opinion. I think that Steve Vai is a hell of a guitar player, but I can't listen to him for more than two to three minutes. Songwriting is more than jacking off on your instrument.

He speaketh the truth.