Satanism and Metal

[AjDeath]

Ok, I resisted in my last post, but now I just have to ask... why oh why do people keep bringing up Slipknot!?!?! They're not even metal and are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Even if they were metal, is Slipknot really the first band alot of you think of when it comes to music involving satan?

Friend, I think people are using them as an example because it lends credibility to an argument, or opinion people have already stated, that Satanism in metal is foolish and is used as a gimmick to attract attention, certainly little kids who want to rebel see these albums as the ultimate in "evil and "grim" because of said gimmick, CoF is another great example of using a stereotypical image of metal to sell albums, all set now?

 

[Profanity]

Metal has always been the devils music.

 

[no country for old wainds]

THird...
Again, I will say the same to you as I have many others. Get your FACTS STRAIGHT. I didn't say I for sure, honestly, can prove God is real. I can't prove he is and YOU can't prove he ISN'T. That is the fundamental paradox of religion, and aparently nobody picks it up and learns from that because if you did, you wouldn't be trying to prove me wrong in everything I say.

Just to respond to a random comment here....I can't PROVE that Santa Claus doesn't exist, or the tooth fairy, but I'm damn sure they don't. The Christian thought process concerning God has similarities to the child thought process concerning Father Christmas.

I'd also like to say that technically, God does exist, because existance is down to perception. If I believe something is true, it is true, until someone makes me believe otherwise.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I'd also like to say that technically, God does exist, because existance is down to perception. If I believe something is true, it is true, until someone makes me believe otherwise.

Bravo. Well said.

I was just thinking- isnt it odd that Islam is largely historically substantiated. we actually know of the history of Muhammed. Im sure he was just a nut who was either psychologically disturbed- or took whatever drugs they had back then- and had visions of this supposed angel- and Allah.

That was completely ignorant, not to mention bullshit. How dare you say such an inane and disrespectful thing? Historially substantiated my ass...

You're damn lucky there's a computer and six levels of hell between us, or you'd be fucked up beyond reason for that comment...

 

[speed]

I suppose you are muslim then- dont worry I think Jesus must have been psychologically disturbed as well- but you have to admit wouldnt you be skeptical if one of your friends said I saw God last night, and his angels- and he told me this was the religion that must be practiced- here are the rules etc. Id look at such a friend and ask him where he got his LSD- or if he's been having psychological problems lately.

Imagine Jesus returning- if he started preaching, and exclaimed himself the son of God- just how long do you think it would take the State, to put him in a mental instituition? Or if one is David Koresh( who actually believed he was the son of God- and I like how he used this to persuade the communiity that it was ok for him to have 10 wives- and also ok that some were only 14 years old) the gov raids and kills everyone.

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

Friend, I think people are using them as an example because it lends credibility to an argument, or opinion people have already stated, that Satanism in metal is foolish and is used as a gimmick to attract attention, certainly little kids who want to rebel see these albums as the ultimate in "evil and "grim" because of said gimmick, CoF is another great example of using a stereotypical image of metal to sell albums, all set now?

Yes that is my point exactly.

I hope no-one thinks I'm a slipknot fan here, because I'd rather listen to anything other than Slipknot. Slipknot aren't the first band that come to mind but they are the stupidest example that comes to mind, so that makes them stick in the mind, "wow let's impress some 7 year olds" Cradle Of Filth are just as bad, they give metal a bad name.

Everyone I know thinks CoF = Metal.

When I talk to the non-metal people who don't know anything about it they ask me if I like Cradle Of Filth and Slipknot, then ask me if I burn churches and then if I cut myself.

That is the Satanic image that Poser bands put across and in that way the Shitty end of Satanism is bad.

 

[AjDeath]

Yes that is my point exactly.

""

That is the Satanic image that Poser bands put across and in that way the Shitty end of Satanism is bad.

This is why we used these bands as examples, they suck and are not metal, this shows that Satanism in metal is tired and old and a gimick, a rather shitty one at that. the point being that Satanism is just as shitty and idiotic as Christianity and does not even need to be applied to metal anymore, metal is aggressive music, not "Devil music" and anyone that listens to it for this reason is trendy. Just my opinion.

 

[Post_Scriptum]

well said

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

This is why we used these bands as examples, they suck and are not metal, this shows that Satanism in metal is tired and old and a gimick, a rather shitty one at that. the point being that Satanism is just as shitty and idiotic as Christianity and does not even need to be applied to metal anymore, metal is aggressive music, not "Devil music" and anyone that listens to it for this reason is trendy. Just my opinion.

Well, I wouldn't agree totally with you there, to say that Satanism is a gimmick is true of some bands, but not all.

I wouldn't say Glen Benton used his band as a gimmick, they are serious mother-fuckers, as are Immolation and many other bands.

The poser end of the metal spectrum, ie; Nu-Metal, the shitty comercial Black Metal, Marilyn Manson, just uses it as a gimmick to sell to kiddies who don't know anything anyway.

One of my favourite lines from any song is by Immolation, speaking about the strange nature of Christianity and God:

I'm the beast you've created, and I'm the beast you'll serve.

Because that's true, God didn't create man, Man created God.

People are forced to live their life by a set of rules decided by some guy about 1500 years ago, who knew nothing of our world

 

[Stormwatch]

I wouldn't say Glen Benton used his band as a gimmick, they are serious mother-fuckers, as are Immolation and many other bands.

Benton didn't use it as a gimmick? So why did he say he was going to kill himself and then change his mind? Obviously it was all for publicity - Deicide are a pretty big band even though their music is fucking crap, and it's all down to the publicity of Benton and his stupid branded forehead.

 

[Stormwatch]

Just to respond to a random comment here....I can't PROVE that Santa Claus doesn't exist, or the tooth fairy, but I'm damn sure they don't. The Christian thought process concerning God has similarities to the child thought process concerning Father Christmas.

I'd also like to say that technically, God does exist, because existance is down to perception. If I believe something is true, it is true, until someone makes me believe otherwise.

I agree with your first point GoD, but the second one is a bit crazy.
You might believe , for instance, that one mile=1000 metres, but it certainly DOESN'T mean it's true simply because of your belief does it?
Maybe OPINIONS are based on belief but not facts, if you see what I mean.

 

[no country for old wainds]

But the only world that exists to me is the one in my own mind. So if I believe that something exists, it does.

 

[Henrik Main]

Yes that is my point exactly.

I hope no-one thinks I'm a slipknot fan here, because I'd rather listen to anything other than Slipknot. Slipknot aren't the first band that come to mind but they are the stupidest example that comes to mind, so that makes them stick in the mind, "wow let's impress some 7 year olds" Cradle Of Filth are just as bad, they give metal a bad name.

Everyone I know thinks CoF = Metal.

When I talk to the non-metal people who don't know anything about it they ask me if I like Cradle Of Filth and Slipknot, then ask me if I burn churches and then if I cut myself.

That is the Satanic image that Poser bands put across and in that way the Shitty end of Satanism is bad.

Ah come on, CoF and Slipknot are metal, even though I hate both bands. If they're not metal, then what are they? Opera-pop? Synth-rock?

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

Benton didn't use it as a gimmick? So why did he say he was going to kill himself and then change his mind? Obviously it was all for publicity - Deicide are a pretty big band even though their music is fucking crap, and it's all down to the publicity of Benton and his stupid branded forehead.

I mean their hatred of Christianity is not just a gimmick, CoF are a joke, I imagine Dani in church of a sunday on his knees, but Immolation and Deicide genuinely hate the Church and all religion.

Immolation are great but they don't have gimmicks.

That is what I mean

 

[Stormwatch]

Okay.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I suppose you are muslim then- dont worry I think Jesus must have been psychologically disturbed as well- but you have to admit wouldnt you be skeptical if one of your friends said I saw God last night, and his angels- and he told me this was the religion that must be practiced- here are the rules etc. Id look at such a friend and ask him where he got his LSD- or if he's been having psychological problems lately.

I actually considered that once, but it's very clear, and Prophet Muhammad made it clear that he WAS the last one, and that following Islam was a choice. The right choice, but it is a choice. If you don't like it, don't take the oath.

Of course mothers give their kids the oath when they're like 5 or 6, so...

My point is, I strongly believe it was more than a drug-trip. I think something very powerful happened to that man, and he was frightened beyond belief at first, but he knew what he had to do.

And not to knock on christianity or anything, but a lot of the 'obvious flaws' everyone is pointing about that religion, are hard to back up in Islam's case. Just an observation. Sorry speed for flipping out, but I'm naturally VERY defensive about my religion. Especially after Sept. 11.

 

[Bryant]

Why can't it be about the music, not religion and 'how evil can we be' ?


Elitism. Normally, people into metal are very individualistic. Even in America, where we are expected to be "free" and we have the big "melting pot" of different cultures etc. there are still always "cliques." Most of the people that associate satinism and metal, aren't doing that for religious reasons, but it is simply a way to seperate "us" and "Them" and it is a way to make "them" sound inferior.
It happens to anyone who doesn't follow what the "norm" does. I really enjoy craft and the harder to find import beers, but most of the people I know (who are cool people) refer to what I drink as "weird shit." There is nothing weird about it to me, but it's not what most other people drink.
One of the few popular domestic beers I do like is Schlitz (not the Bull, but the regular Lager.) A guy I know saw me in a convenience store with a six of Schlitz in my hand and said "you'll drink anything won't you ? " as he was referring to the fact that Schlitz is bargain priced. He assumed I was buying it because it was cheap, when in fact, I was buying it because it tastes better than Coors etc to me.
That last story was about assumption, or judging the book by it's cover. Some people think metal is satanic because other people say it is and because it already has that notoriety. People like to talk about all sorts of things even if they don't know shit about the subject as well.


Bryant

 

[speed]

No offense Anonymous Nick- in fact I should read more on islam- but I do know Id be just as skeptical of that religion- with its laws etc. I was just making the point, that Islam is a bit more substantiated historically than Christianity. We actually know muhammed was a real person, and what he did with the rest of his life- after he found god.

As for the drug trip etc., well this is just my opinion- but I would like to know why it would be hard to back up from a islamic point of view.

You are right, Islam is sort of under attack in America, the mosque in my city had three or four cop cars guarding it every Fri service- and a cop car always out for security. I know of no other religion that fears an attack against it in america.

 

[TheBloodFeaster]

Ah come on, CoF and Slipknot are metal, even though I hate both bands. If they're not metal, then what are they? Opera-pop? Synth-rock?

CoF are metal, not black metal and with pretty commercial ambitions, but metal nonetheless. Slipknot are not metal though. Just because they have loud guitars and play fast does not make them metal. Metal is an actual style of music, not just anything heavy or abrasive. Today Is the Day for example is an excellent band who's music is sometimes heavier and more insane than most metal or grindcore bands; but they are neither genre. As for what Slipknot is, they are a grindcore influenced nu-metal band. Keep in mind nu-metal is a misnomer, because the music is not a subset of metal at all.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

Anyway, speed... here's some general background information:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/z3ro666/206218.html#cutid1