Satanism and Metal

[AjDeath]

Free will means you can do whatever the hell you want. I and us Christians have no problem with what you do in life. I will live how I want and you how you want. That doesn't PREVENT you from using free will so don't gimme that bullshit about you not being able to exercise it. You excercise it the way you want to, but remember choices all have consequences. Use your free will for bad and sinful things, and you'll be in the state of mind away from God we call HELL after you die. Use it for good and you'll be in the presence of God in HEAVEN after you die.

See? you CAN live the way you want and use that free will however you want, no matter what other Christians and anyone else tells you. That's the beauty of it all.

now, I can't speak for all Christians, but I'll let you exercise your freewill. It's a God-given right, so go ahead. I know to atheists that last sentence won't make any sense whatsoever. 'God-given?' hahaha I won't waste my time explaining myself to the likes of you

You apparently did not base your reply on reality, maybe you do not impose your version of freewill onto others, but the church murders others, as we have discussed, throughout history for not giving into misguided ideals, for the most part of the churches history, the church used itself to oppress man, and sow ingnorance, that all changed with Luther, and yet the Church would not let people decide their own fate. I know I have done wrong, but I have lived my life the best I could under the circumstances, if God(yes I believe in a God) decides to send me to hell because I sometimes masterbate(which is viewed as pre-marital sex by the church), well, I am well prepared to suffer the consequences. But to me, that is fucking absolutely absurd. Most of the bible to me is fucking rediculous. YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE A GOD TO FOLLOW THE DOCTRINES LAID OUT. Yes, there are things,or sins as you call them, that I have done that I am truly sorry for and regret, but I will not live my life in the shadows of the past. I believe in the ideals, but I am human damnit, all these Christians that go around acting like they are clean and innocent, and perfect make me sick(not aimed at you Nocturnal, if you are actually reading this) They should shut up and worry about their own lives.

Here is a fact, others can not led you to faith, only you can. Your body is your temple, not some building, and certainly not some Cathedral built by innocent blood.

 

[speed]

Nocturnal Sun, you claim religious freedom- yet it seemed you were trying to convince all of us that your christianity was the one and only spiritual path. Im not trying to be an ass here- I just hope you post again.

I agree with your ideas of freedom Aj- we just have different ideas on the future- and thats fine with me-as you say we respectfully agree to disagree

 

[NocturnalSun]

fine fine i'll post again..... no i was not trying to convince you that Christianity is the only path. I was defending my religion because almost every single post, someone criticized it. it actually started with someone bashing Christianity to which I replied 'fuck you wit a rubber spork' o sumthin haha... anyway I was just defending my religion, not forcing it on anyone. If I said some things like that, it was what the church teaches, not me forcing something on you. This dispute over the misunderstanding of religions is going nowhere, so I've chosen to take myself out of the picture and stop replying. anymore questions for me jsut pm me and I'll decide whether or not I wanna reply to u. I will to AJdeath and Speed if they want, but thats it. no more discussion 4 me since I'm heavily outnumbered and arguing more isn't helping anyone

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

All religion is crazy, well Organised religion anyway.

I have many discussions about religion with my friends, as far as I'm concerned people can do what they want as long as they don't try to force it on me. But sadly that is what happens in the real world, I had some guy telling me I was going to Hell for wearing an Amon Amarth t-shirt on, he said "are you into Christianity?" In truth I'm quite against it, it is the worst of all the organised religions, seeing the hypocrites campaigning against the war in Iraq made me laugh.

"We have slaughtered millions around the world in the name of God, but we want to be seen to be caring, so lets go with the masses"

I think Satanism is just as stupid, just a form of Christianity.

The truth is I believe in nothing, just pain and misery and bigotry and hatred

And as far as Hypocrisy, they teach that Christains should hate gays, yet a lot of the priest's appear to be gay paedophiles. My local priest turned out to be a Paedophile so that is not a broad generalisation, that's based on fact

Wow, coincidence, I had my playlist on random and as I was writing this song came on

 

[speed]

Dont sweat it Nocturnal Sun, its not as if anyone cares or even knows about this little discussion. Yes, people were ganging up on you, including me in the beginning, but I suppose if you ever need to question some aspect of your faith, just post it on here, Im sure you'll learn of every angle- or maybe nothing at all.

At least you hold a believe in a afterlife, and you have someone to blame( god) Consider yourself lucky, I wish I could believe in an afterlife, or have someone to blame; plus if you are part of a church, you have a ready made support group if you want it, not a bunch of loser metalheads, or rational scientists, or neomarxists etc.

 

[R.I.P.2]

NocturnalSun - just because you are outnumbered in this thread, it doesn't mean you should stop posting. Speed and AJDeath, at least, havn't attacked you personally and though you say the discussion has gone nowhere, I believe we all find it interesting. Everyone here is just sharing opinions and beliefs, the fact that most of them differ to yours shouldn't silence you.

 

[Hammer of Might]

I think what he's saying is he's fed up with many messages simply insulting faith, which is perfectly understandable.

 

[Stormwatch]

the facts are fuckin undeniable. they found the head of Peter the apostle .

Tell me - where is this magical head, and how exactly did they know who's it was? Did it have a label?
Don't mean to be sarcastic but...come on!

 

[Metabop]

Just a few thoughts.

What is religion? Well I think it's the study and practice towards a greater spiritual freedom. Is it people torturing others to death because they have different beliefs? No it isn't, actions like that are not to do with religion. They are to do with insane people using the idea of religion as a cover for their insane acts.

I feel it is very important to distinguish between the actions of the criminals past and present and the word "religion".

Religion as a concept has become tainted with the horrendous crimes perpetrated in its name. Yes the Catholic church has carried out vile acts in the name of its faith, wiped out whole cultures in fact.

These were people using the authority of the church to further their own private ends.

Should the great, great, grand son be held responsible for the actions of his great great grand dad? I don't know if it's a good analogy or not, but I personally don't hold modern day Catholics responsible for the destruction of the Aztecs.

Myself, I am not a Christian, I never will follow any of the sects of Christianity either. Nor am I a Satanist, which to me has striven so hard to be the opposite of Christianity it has locked itself into a dogma much like that which it opposes.

I am however a spiritual being, not a lump of meat. I believe in the freedom of all to express themselves as they wish.

As to the viscious bastards I mentioned earlier, well I think they'll all end up in a hell of their own making. We are all god or the devil and everything in between as we choose. You can't escape from the punishment you give to yourself.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

Oh boy, NocturnalSun: Now I see why you're being picked on here. :Smug:

you personally sound like a mall-goth to me because you claim to be anti-conformity but by being a Satanist, you and the other satanists of your type represent a group of people. You are anti-conformity towards certain things, but by being lumped in with other satanists of your kind, you are conforming to their ideals, are you not?

If you look at the first sentence that I posted in this topic I said...

"Note that I am not a Satanist of the LaVey'ian brand"

I will NEVER understand your kind or other atheists. and believe me, I despise you and your kind with a burning passion, and I'm sure you hate me just as much.

Absolutely fucking stupid.

Well, lets look at another introductory paragraph of mine...

"I consider myself an eclectic Luciferian/"agnostic deist:" I believe in the limitation of the human mind to accurately interpret its surroundings, and thus, have a nagging belief in a transcendental 'truth,' of sorts. However, I think that one you admit the futility of total knowledge, you also admit an inability to know beyond your own sphere of awareness. I believe in the notion of 'higher power,' but I believe that speculation is pointless, and futile... but fun.

Amazing. I just told you that I believe in a form of your 'God,' yet, because I do not conform to your outdated beliefs, I am a 'wicked atheist.'

You despise me? Go ahead, little man... let your righteous indignation burn you out of existence. You're wasting energy. Don't you see a major issue here when your 'enemy' follows your ideals (tolerance, etc) more closely than you do?

You're right: I do consider myself an enemy of organized religion. As I said before, I believe that no-one does a greater disservice to their creator. Organized religion promotes weakness of will, blandness of spirit, and herd conformity. Any quest for divinity should be pursued through the only verifiable source: The self.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

That was an eloquent post Sonicarnal, I agree with your view of Satan being considered a rebel throughout literature etc, and your overall ideas of the world. Yet, I dont understand how you come to the conclusion of being a satanist- or your sympathy towards satanism.

Luciferianism is far removed from Modern Satanism... especially my approach. Don't get me wrong: I am greatly annoyed by LaVey'ian Satanism...

If one understand the absurdity of life etc as you describe- one can just become a nihilist: to become a satanist- one must believe in good( or god ) as well as so called freedom, and natural primitism- thus this defeats the purpose of your nihilstic ideas of the absurdity of the world.

Modern Satanism (of the LaVey'ian brand) has nothing to do with 'good' and 'evil:' It relegates such concepts to societal traditions and norms... somethign else to be battled against.

Nihilism by nature rejects the idea of purpose or truth. I do not. I am an existential theist in the sense that I believe that life has a purpose, but that it is beyond our physical comprehension. Since we cannot draw any universal meaning from existence, we must admit ignorance and any lack of understanding of the physical world... soft absurdism. A nihilist rejects meaning and value... I reject the notion that meaning and value can be objectively interpreted.

Furthermore, Satanism ( or the illusion of satan being a more sympathetic figure than god) at its peak in intellectual persuasion with Milton, Blake, Sade, and the Romantics, has played its hand both intellectually, and in indirect practical use in the world( romantic ideals died with the death of Hitler) - these ideals have been superseeded by existentialism, and nihilism.

Blake's interpretation has always been my favorite.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

Oh, furthermore:

One's religion is nothing more than philosophical and spiritual speculation about the unknowable. Religion can be a very positive thing (provided it is independent), but only fools will side with religion in a conflict with science.

 

[ShadowOfDeath]

okay so i know you'll all hate me before i get started but i don't give 2 fucks if satanism is related to metal, i mean with all the slipknots these days(with songs like heretic anthem, pentagram logos, and their second album with a goat on it which i hear from friends is a sign of the devil)it's no wonder, slipknot is one of the biggest metal bands around right now

i'm a slipknot fan and know just from the things they've done they have satanists acts, but i also know slipknot, and have a friend who knows Corey taylor, and i know perfectly well slipknot nor any of it's members are satanists

i also poisen this metal world, and i love it, all my life i have expirienced, dark things, and actually i have blood fetishes, blood makes me comfortable, anything dark or 'evil' is cool in my eyes

no i am not satanist but i don't deny i would practice that religion, i have a friend who would lose respect for me over this but oh well, i like satanic things, i like everything associated with evil, evil is great in my opinion

but anyways mainstream bands are the cause, very few times do you hear about a black metal bands music corrupting peoples minds, but i have friends who listen to my albums and have heard stuff i have by black metal bands, they say their albums are just worshipping the devil

the point is bands do it to get noticed, corrupting this world, few bands actually have satanists or a satanist member, i mean i play guitar and trying to sing as well(i'm an okay vocalist, not to good but not horrible) and i want to start a band, i won't care if people hate me because i know my lyrics may make people think i'm satanist, i write evil , dark, stuff, the first song i ever wrote was labeled "VERY DARK A MORBID" so i know perfectly well people who have read my work will think i'm satanist, guess what, NO ONE ON THIS FUCKING PLANET GIVES A SHIT, FUCK OFF

it's stereotypical but thats because some who listen to metal are idiots, i'm not calling myself an idiot, if you read what i said earliar, my entire life has been associated with dark things, i have been evil since i was 4-5 years old, i am now 13 years old and still a fucking demon okay? metal changed nothing in my life but the satanist wannabes made me comfortable
HOORAY FOR SATANISM, HOORAY FOR METAL

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

so i know you'll all hate me before i get started but i don't give 2 fucks if satanism is related to metal, i mean with all the slipknots these days(with songs like heretic anthem, pentagram logos, and their second album with a goat on it which i hear from friends is a sign of the devil)it's no wonder, slipknot is one of the biggest metal bands around right now

i'm a slipknot fan and know just from the things they've done they have satanists acts, but i also know slipknot, and have a friend who knows Corey taylor, and i know perfectly well slipknot nor any of it's members are satanists

i also poisen this metal world, and i love it, all my life i have expirienced, dark things, and actually i have blood fetishes, blood makes me comfortable, anything dark or 'evil' is cool in my eyes

no i am not satanist but i don't deny i would practice that religion, i have a friend who would lose respect for me over this but oh well, i like satanic things, i like everything associated with evil, evil is great in my opinion

but anyways mainstream bands are the cause, very few times do you hear about a black metal bands music corrupting peoples minds, but i have friends who listen to my albums and have heard stuff i have by black metal bands, they say their albums are just worshipping the devil

the point is bands do it to get noticed, corrupting this world, few bands actually have satanists or a satanist member, i mean i play guitar and trying to sing as well(i'm an okay vocalist, not to good but not horrible) and i want to start a band, i won't care if people hate me because i know my lyrics may make people think i'm satanist, i write evil , dark, stuff, the first song i ever wrote was labeled "VERY DARK A MORBID" so i know perfectly well people who have read my work will think i'm satanist, guess what, NO ONE ON THIS FUCKING PLANET GIVES A SHIT, FUCK OFF

it's stereotypical but thats because some who listen to metal are idiots, i'm not calling myself an idiot, if you read what i said earliar, my entire life has been associated with dark things, i have been evil since i was 4-5 years old, i am now 13 years old and still a fucking demon okay? metal changed nothing in my life but the satanist wannabes made me comfortable
HOORAY FOR SATANISM, HOORAY FOR METAL

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

Sorry If I came across as being offensive, I didn't mean to.

The Church of Satan, what a joke.

The bottom line is that Satan is a Christian belief, OK, tell me about the Hebrew meaning of the word that actually means "Adversery", but no God, no Satan that's what I believe.

So I don't believe in anything.

And I do blame the Catholic Church of now for the crimes of the past, and the end of the day, it is the same bible that they preach from and the Church is still run by humans who can just as easily be tempted and manipulate the bible for their own ends.

I do also envy people who have faith, mine left me a long time ago.

If it makes you happy to believe what you want then I won't say anything against you, I will however tell anyone why I see religion as bad, but no personal attacks, that's just wrong.

 

[Hell Mike]

Regarding 'satan' or any 'evil' force be it in religion or whatever (Good also): It exists purely in the minds of people but that is enough, see what fanatics have done through the years and rejoice: Vlad Tepes, the Crusades, the Inquisition, church burnings, modern-day sucide bombers etc.

 

[R.I.P.2]

okay so i know you'll all hate me before i get started but i don't give 2 fucks if satanism is related to metal, i mean with all the slipknots these days(with songs like heretic anthem, pentagram logos, and their second album with a goat on it which i hear from friends is a sign of the devil)it's no wonder, slipknot is one of the biggest metal bands around right now

i'm a slipknot fan and know just from the things they've done they have satanists acts, but i also know slipknot, and have a friend who knows Corey taylor, and i know perfectly well slipknot nor any of it's members are satanists

i also poisen this metal world, and i love it, all my life i have expirienced, dark things, and actually i have blood fetishes, blood makes me comfortable, anything dark or 'evil' is cool in my eyes

no i am not satanist but i don't deny i would practice that religion, i have a friend who would lose respect for me over this but oh well, i like satanic things, i like everything associated with evil, evil is great in my opinion

but anyways mainstream bands are the cause, very few times do you hear about a black metal bands music corrupting peoples minds, but i have friends who listen to my albums and have heard stuff i have by black metal bands, they say their albums are just worshipping the devil

the point is bands do it to get noticed, corrupting this world, few bands actually have satanists or a satanist member, i mean i play guitar and trying to sing as well(i'm an okay vocalist, not to good but not horrible) and i want to start a band, i won't care if people hate me because i know my lyrics may make people think i'm satanist, i write evil , dark, stuff, the first song i ever wrote was labeled "VERY DARK A MORBID" so i know perfectly well people who have read my work will think i'm satanist, guess what, NO ONE ON THIS FUCKING PLANET GIVES A SHIT, FUCK OFF

it's stereotypical but thats because some who listen to metal are idiots, i'm not calling myself an idiot, if you read what i said earliar, my entire life has been associated with dark things, i have been evil since i was 4-5 years old, i am now 13 years old and still a fucking demon okay? metal changed nothing in my life but the satanist wannabes made me comfortable
HOORAY FOR SATANISM, HOORAY FOR METAL

Tragic.

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

13 Years old hey!

You must have a great wealth of knowledge.

The Goat reference you so proudly speak of in regards to Slipknot is, I suppose, supposed to represent Baphomet.

It is alleged that The Knights Templar worshipped Baphomet, or the severed head of John The Baptist.

Not really Satanic, just a random Esoteric relationship.

 

[speed]

ok, I see where you are coming from Sonicarnal- yet I am still abit confused.

Okay so you said: "we must admit ignorance and any lack of understanding of the physical world... soft absurdism... I reject the notion that meaning and value can be objectively interpreted." I agree on the last part- but not the first part, as we are starting to figure out completely how the physical world on earth and our solar system works.

Anyway, so just what is your form of Luciferionism? What are its ideals, what does it teach? You havent clarified this point- just that you do believe in some form of truth, but that we are not able yet to find this truth.

This is fascinating stuff, I have never heard of any of this before- hell I didnt think there were more than a handful of actual Levay- Satanists. And frankly I know next to nothing about them other than he was a jewish middle class kid that started a new variant of satanism. Ive read a little on Aleister Crowley- and came back with the idea that he was nothing more than a romantic libertine- with rituals.

 

[NocturnalSun]

DUDE!!! I know im not gonna post anymore but this is a big exception... when I got out of my car 2day i was listening to A Perfect Circle's "Weak And Powerless" on cd, then I turn on the radio inside and that song's playing... and if that wasn't weird enough, I somehow thought of my dog taking a crap out in the neighbor's yard... voila there he is lettin it go right across the street. And then I walk inside here and put on my cd player in my room and get on the net to read up on what's goin on without me (seems to be much better and less angrier, so I won't interfere) and I hear Speed talkin about Aleister Crowley, and then I realize I have Ozzy Osbourne's "The Ozzman Cometh" in the cd player cuz like a minute before I read that, "Mr. Crowley" comes on!!!!
WHOAH one heluva day for me... anyway, just had 2 get that out. Ignore this post n keep going. LATER!!!