Satanism and Metal

[Benzine]

maynard and the band are still Christians

I'm asking this because i genuinely don't know:

Is maynard really a christian? I thought he was an athiest and he also is against organised religion. And also some say the song Eulogy by Tool is anti-Christ. Please correct me if wrong

 

[R.I.P.2]

Eulogy is anti-christ.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

I've been away for quite awhile now, and I have not followed the progression of this topic at all. Based on the number of pages that this topic has, I'd guess that a retarded fight has started.

Satanism is just as blind as Christianity, same with every other "follow the leader" religion out there. Anton Lavey(not sure if that's spelled right) had an idea, and turned it into a belief-structure, big mistake for a respectable individual, and it's a living testament to how stupid people can be. If you belong to a religious group, I would gladly respect your ideals, but the fact remains that YOU ARE A FOLLOWER! Satanism isn't rebellion, in fact, it's the very thing that constitutes the opposite. Like every other organized religion, it has flaws, and anyone who actually believes EVERY WORD of it is too dumb, ignorant, or lazy to come up with their own ideals and morals.

Note that I am not a Satanist of the LaVey'ian brand (see: hard atheist, magickal nitwits), but your assessment of said 'religion' is absolutely baseless and stupid. While I would gladly join you in scorning his establishment, your justification is skewered and fucking retarded.

The very nature of LaVey'ian Satanism is that of rebellion and anti-conformity: However, many members of said philosophy have turned out the same way that high school mallgoths have... they've become mouthpieces for their way of thought. Satanism is founded on principles that in fact act as anti-principles: They are merely guidelines that theorize the most self-fulfilling way of living. They are no more 'rules' than saying "There are no rules" is a rule.

Too lazy to come up with their own ideals and morals? LaVey'ian Satanism is an anti-ideal, anti-moral establishment: They reject the notion of spirituality, meaning, purpose, and progression. Obviously, if one aligns himself with the institution, he shares the same viewpoints... there's no adaptation required.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

Anyway, since this seems to be such a hot issue around here, I'll repost something I wrote on another forum:

I consider myself an eclectic Luciferian/"agnostic deist:" I believe in the limitation of the human mind to accurately interpret its surroundings, and thus, have a nagging belief in a transcendental 'truth,' of sorts. However, I think that one you admit the futility of total knowledge, you also admit an inability to know beyond your own sphere of awareness. I believe in the notion of 'higher power,' but I believe that speculation is pointless, and futile... but fun.

Satan, to me, represents the defiance of convention and is an iconic representation of the transcendental human potential. 'His' place in art and music is that of subversion (often violent): An upheaval of the standards that aim to stagnate the development of the human mind and human spirit.

The argument is often made that metaphysics and religion (in any form) have been rendered obsolete by what many consider the dual towers of the rational human mind: Science and reason. In a limited sense, this is true. Our extended fingertips in reaching for the answers has extended far beyond the irrationality of fable and theistic folly, and our meticulous investigation into the world that we live in seems to have taken a serrated blade to the lies of the great pantheons and perhaps even Jehovah himself. The tales of old have been left on the bottom rung in our ascension towards the veil that acts as boundary between mortality and infinity... often these days without hope that any form of Truth exists beyond the gulf.

Yes, reason is quite effective in its own established arena, but like any other system of thought, it is wholly dependant on circumstantial principles, notably, mankind's possession of an objective view of his own universe: A idea that reason itself says is fairly absurd. Many will argue that reason is not to be classified in the same manner as man-made structures of thought, as it is in fact the skeletal system in the conscious brain upon which we develop our faiths and beliefs, and is the the medium through which we make "sense" of our surroundings. For that ,it is invaluable: It seeks to answer What, albeit from an tainted perspective. Perhaps unfortunately (in the gnostic sense), for us, it is the sole and most effective way to interpret the universe as we see it.

However, people today seem to deify this "reason" and exalt it as not merely a biological interface and an answer to What (and Where, in terms applicable to perceivable existence), but also take the additional step to presume that the intangible (Why/How) can also be bound to their system. Science has shown how the universe has come to be, and in a sense, us as well (objectively). Still, one must inevitably realize that this is nearly inconsequential as justification and in a sense, science has made as much progress in justifying existence as the mystics of old... albeit they make no intentionally falsified claims. Prolonged introspection brings one continuously back to absurdism and Existentialism Lite (TM): The personal realization that not only is our very consciousness, that from which we derive all of your "great knowledge," is utterly absurd and intangible, and that our "understanding" of existence can be likened to staring at a locked box from the inside and knowing every aspect of the interior.

I harbor no ill will towards today's spiritualists... just those who attempt to justify their intangible and absurd ideas through reason (the true Satanic quality), nor do I have much respect for the weaklings, loonies, and crackpots who crave structure for their chaos (theists) or those who flock to institutions of the spirit to seek fulfillment for their lacking tangible existence. Speculative spiritualism is the truest form of human creativity. Many have said that what defines Man as opposed to animal is his ability to rationalize his surroundings. I'm inclined to think that the opposite... his intangible nature... is far more important.

 

[ffanatic]

Maynard is anything but a practicing Christian.

 

[Sonicarnal Artist]

Maynard is anything but a practicing Christian.

*nods*

Maynard may be a spritual person, but he has shown great distaste for organized religion in general.

 

[ffanatic]

*nods*

Maynard may be a spritual person, but he has shown great distaste for organized religion in general.

So true. Most people have difficulty believing that one can be spiritual and logical at the same time, and Maynard is just that.

 

[NocturnalSun]

ok then my source was wrong... I still consider Maynard to be one of the most talented songwriters of all time...

Sonicarnal Artist, I am a little confused still about Satanism. If it is anti-moral, anti-conformity, anti-almost everything, how can that be? you personally sound like a mall-goth to me because you claim to be anti-conformity but by being a Satanist, you and the other satanists of your type represent a group of people. You are anti-conformity towards certain things, but by being lumped in with other satanists of your kind, you are conforming to their ideals, are you not?

also anti-progression I totally do not understand. if you truly were anti-progression, you'd be following the ways (technology and spirituality both) of those who were around several hundred years ago, because no doubt some of your kind were around back then. Progression is what got us to where we are now. We are at the height of technological advancement right now and still moving, yet you want to stop that, as an anti-progressionist?

I will NEVER understand your kind or other atheists. and believe me, I despise you and your kind with a burning passion, and I'm sure you hate me just as much. whoever said up there that this discussion was going nowhere is absolutely correct. we are arguing futilely over the ideas of our religions and it should stop right now because we're still at square one --- Atheists against Christians, Atheists against Satanists, Christians agains Satanists, Christians against Atheists, and so on...

 

[NocturnalSun]

wow... first time ever a board has gotten 150 posts and have miraculously gotten nowhere!!!

 

[Benzine]

But it hasn't got 150 posts yet....oh wait now it has

 

[AjDeath]

You people seem to have forgotten that your beliefs only mean anything in the context of your life, not anyone elses. Once you realize that what someone believes in is not important to you and vice-versa, you can forget about such baggage and therefore have no need to "despise people with a passion." Because when it comes down to it, it is none of your business what I beleive in, it shouldn't be, and it shouldn't make a difference to you. Like I said a couple times before, when your religious beliefs get in the way of human interaction and cloud your perception of the world/reality, you have taken thimgs too far and need to reflect on what your life means to you, not what your perception of what life should mean to everyone else.

 

[Benzine]

Well said

 

[speed]

That was an eloquent post Sonicarnal, I agree with your view of Satan being considered a rebel throughout literature etc, and your overall ideas of the world. Yet, I dont understand how you come to the conclusion of being a satanist- or your sympathy towards satanism. If one understand the absurdity of life etc as you describe- one can just become a nihilist: to become a satanist- one must believe in good( or god ) as well as so called freedom, and natural primitism- thus this defeats the purpose of your nihilstic ideas of the absurdity of the world. Furthermore, Satanism ( or the illusion of satan being a more sympathetic figure than god) at its peak in intellectual persuasion with Milton, Blake, Sade, and the Romantics, has played its hand both intellectually, and in indirect practical use in the world( romantic ideals died with the death of Hitler) - these ideals have been superseeded by existentialism, and nihilism.

I think it is hilarious that so many people( baptists usually) believe in the devil, and that he is the instigator of evil in the world.

 

[speed]

True Aj, but such thought is contrary to the teachings and practice of religion. Religion believes it does hold all the answers towards every aspect of life; if one is justified by religion in his perception of how the world should work, then one will think they are doing the divine will of god.

Sheep I say, but what are you going to do, religion offers the comfort that nihilism, and atheism doesnt- thats why I prefer a form of epicurianism- I live for the moment- not for the future, or the past- just the best I can do right now- and the begrudging acceptance, that this world, is the best we can do now.

 

[AjDeath]

True Aj, but such thought is contrary to the teachings and practice of religion. Religion believes it does hold all the answers towards every aspect of life; if one is justified by religion in his perception of how the world should work, then one will think they are doing the divine will of god.

You are speaking of orginized religion, something I refuse to have anything to do with personaly, also even though you used kinder, gentler terminology, the term oppression comes to mind. What I don't get is that if religion esp. Christianity is so willing to point out that God gave us free will, why aren't they willing to let us exercise it? It is quite the conundrum(sp.-I decided to go with phonetics), no?

Sheep I say, but what are you going to do, religion offers the comfort that nihilism, and atheism doesnt- thats why I prefer a form of epicurianism- I live for the moment- not for the future, or the past- just the best I can do right now- and the begrudging acceptance, that this world, is the best we can do now.

I beleive that we have agreed to disagree on some of the finer points of existence philosophy. And I will take my own advice.

 

[NocturnalSun]

What I don't get is that if religion esp. Christianity is so willing to point out that God gave us free will, why aren't they willing to let us exercise it?

Free will means you can do whatever the hell you want. I and us Christians have no problem with what you do in life. I will live how I want and you how you want. That doesn't PREVENT you from using free will so don't gimme that bullshit about you not being able to exercise it. You excercise it the way you want to, but remember choices all have consequences. Use your free will for bad and sinful things, and you'll be in the state of mind away from God we call HELL after you die. Use it for good and you'll be in the presence of God in HEAVEN after you die.

See? you CAN live the way you want and use that free will however you want, no matter what other Christians and anyone else tells you. That's the beauty of it all.

now, I can't speak for all Christians, but I'll let you exercise your freewill. It's a God-given right, so go ahead. I know to atheists that last sentence won't make any sense whatsoever. 'God-given?' hahaha I won't waste my time explaining myself to the likes of you

 

[NocturnalSun]

since nobody bothered to pay attention to this post at all, I'm resurrecting it from page 5:

ok then my source was wrong on him... I still consider Maynard to be one of the most talented songwriters of all time... Sonicarnal Artist, I am a little confused still about Satanism. If it is anti-moral, anti-conformity, anti-almost everything, how can that be? you personally sound like a mall-goth to me because you claim to be anti-conformity but by being a Satanist, you and the other satanists of your type represent a group of people. You are anti-conformity towards certain things, but by being lumped in with other satanists of your kind, you are conforming to their ideals, are you not? also anti-progression I totally do not understand. if you truly were anti-progression, you'd be following the ways (technology and spirituality both) of those who were around several hundred years ago, because no doubt some of your kind were around back then. Progression is what got us to where we are now. We are at the height of technological advancement right now and still moving, yet you want to stop that, as an anti-progressionist? I will NEVER understand your kind or other atheists. and believe me, I despise you and your kind with a burning passion, and I'm sure you hate me just as much. whoever said up there that this discussion was going nowhere is absolutely correct. we are arguing futilely over the ideas of our religions and it should stop right now because we're still at square one --- Atheists against Christians, Atheists against Satanists, Christians agains Satanists, Christians against Atheists, and so on...

 

[Benzine]

What happened to the people that worshipped gods such as the Greeks, Egyptians, Norse, Aztec etc? As they didn't worship 'God' (ie Christian God) did they go to hell for not having faith in him? They put their beliefs in their gods so strongly so was it all for nothing since apparently there is only one god?

And if God created the earth and put man on it straight away we'd have lived with the dinosaurs surely? And that would also mean we didn't evolve from apes. And do only humans go to heaven and hell and not any other animals? Take chimps, for example, almost biologically identical but would they not have to have faith in god? Surely thats just picking on the humans!

These are mere topics for discussion. Thats all they are








And for those saying 'Keep to the subject'. I saw a CD a few months back with a cartoon devil on it...and it was a metal CD.

 

[NocturnalSun]

Ok I'm dropping out here. no more for me... your persistant arguments are frivelous and I've tried to stop this whole thing several times to no avail. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM MEANS SOMETHING PEOPLE!!! why don't we have it on here? (thats a rhetorical question so don't answer)

 

[Benzine]

Ok I'm dropping out here. no more for me... your persistant arguments are frivelous and I've tried to stop this whole thing several times to no avail. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM MEANS SOMETHING PEOPLE!!! why don't we have it on here? (thats a rhetorical question so don't answer)

I'll give you a dime and half a bottle of root beer if you come back







Not really