The Barack Obama review/critique thread

[zabu of nΩd]

We should probably have one of these just to help centralise all the Obama discussions / debates / pissing contests that will inevitably arise in the coming years. Feel free to post news, wiki, and blog articles here, and have them torn apart by others, or simply just vent about Obama's policies in general if you need to.


To start with, I'll post the list I just put together in the "Obama action figure" thread, which came from here. As a disclaimer, I know that this isn't an indicator of any major success on his part so far, but in my opinion it's definitely a step in the right direction.

* Due to the economic crisis, the President enacted a pay freeze for Senior White House Staff making more than $100,000 per year, as well as announcing stricter guidelines regarding lobbyists in an effort to raise the ethical standards of the White House

* revoked Executive Order 13233, which had been initiated by the Bush administration to limit access to the records of former United States Presidents

* changed procedures to promote disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act

Thank god we now have a President who gives at least a slight shit about ethical behavior on the part of government staff. Bush was pretty much the complete antithesis of that.

The wording of Order 13233, from what I've seen, is regrettably not as comprehensive as it could be. It looks like the main purpose of it is just to dig up dirt on Bush, and he has notably exempted the current President from any responsibility under it. But it's at least better than what we had under Bush.

* issued executive orders and presidential memoranda reversing President Bush's ban on federal funding to foreign establishments that allow abortions (known as the Global Gag Rule)

I'm not familiar with the back story on this, and I'm not necessarily an 'anything goes' person as far as abortion, so this may be a good or bad thing depending on the details. It's most likely a positive thing overall, since it seems like Bush's ban didn't make any exceptions for the types of abortion supported by the groups, and a lot of them may have actually been more focused on distributing contraceptives, which we should definitely be encouraging around the world.

* directed the U.S. military to develop plans to withdraw troops from Iraq

This is the one position of Obama's that I've always found reckless. Has he ever actually bothered to look closely at the situation there and make a careful assessment? He seems to just place getting the hell out of Iraq above any other priority we could have there. He may very well end up leading Iraq into a bloodbath, and I doubt the world's going to look very kindly upon that.

* signed an executive order announcing the closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention camp within a year, and "Immediate Review of All Guantánamo Detentions"

* signed into force a prohibition on using torture and other illegal coercive techniques, such as waterboarding during interrogations and detentions

Finally. Setting a positive image for our conduct in war and defense is probably going to do us more good than beating as much information out of captives as possible.

* issued an executive order entitled "Ethics Commitments by Executive Branch Personnel", governing the limitations on hiring of employees by the executive branch to qualified individuals only, and placing very tight restrictions on lobbying in the White House

Not sure what the hell this is supposed to mean, or whether there's some ulterior motive here, but I definitely support the principle behind it.

* gave the go-ahead for missile strikes against suspected militants in Pakistan

This is a tricky situation, especially with the supposedly strengthening relations between Pakistan and China, along with all the implications of attacking targets inside a nuclear-armed country, so I'm not really sure what to think of this right now. Seems like the "War on Terror" has been out of hand for a long time, though.

* signed two Presidential Memoranda concerning energy independence. One directed the Department of Transportation to establish higher fuel efficiency standards before 2011 models are released, and the other allowed states to raise their emissions standards above the national standard, an idea rejected by the Bush administration

Becoming eco-friendly is probably not our biggest priority right now, but these orders don't seem to require any major investments off the bat, and they at least set a positive tone, unlike the Bush administration's "Fuck the environment" tone.

 

[Dak]

*moved to this thread*

I would attack some things I see coming up but I will wait until he actually does them. He obviously is going to get a lot done as a president, but so did Bush. Change isn't always progress.

* Due to the economic crisis, the President enacted a pay freeze for Senior White House Staff making more than $100,000 per year, as well as announcing stricter guidelines regarding lobbyists in an effort to raise the ethical standards of the White House

Sounds good, not really enough details to make a call though.

* revoked Executive Order 13233, which had been initiated by the Bush administration to limit access to the records of former United States Presidents

Good.

* issued executive orders and presidential memoranda reversing President Bush's ban on federal funding to foreign establishments that allow abortions (known as the Global Gag Rule)

Bad. The Federal Gov't shouldn't be funding any establishments for abortion purposes, foreign or domestic.

* changed procedures to promote disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act

Good. Edit:

and he has notably exempted the current President from any responsibility under it. But it's at least better than what we had under Bush.

Noticed this as well.

* directed the U.S. military to develop plans to withdraw troops from Iraq

We won't fully withdraw, not to mention it's merely a misdirectional ploy as we are taking the personnel pulled out of Iraq and dropping them into Afghanistan. He is still carrying on with the same globalist interference agenda. Withdrawing would be good but it's not going to happen.

* signed an executive order announcing the closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention camp within a year, and "Immediate Review of All Guantánamo Detentions"

Good.

* signed into force a prohibition on using torture and other illegal coercive techniques, such as waterboarding during interrogations and detentions

Good, but will it just go on undercover? Obviously not something that could be blamed on Obama but I really question the value of this one.

* issued an executive order entitled "Ethics Commitments by Executive Branch Personnel", governing the limitations on hiring of employees by the executive branch to qualified individuals only, and placing very tight restrictions on lobbying in the White House

Not enough details on this one to make a decision.

* gave the go-ahead for missile strikes against suspected militants in Pakistan

Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. Can't say it enough.

* signed two Presidential Memoranda concerning energy independence. One directed the Department of Transportation to establish higher fuel efficiency standards before 2011 models are released, and the other allowed states to raise their emissions standards above the national standard, an idea rejected by the Bush administration

If Obama was serious about energy independence, we would also be tapping the oil field in the Dakotas and aggressively working on more nuclear/wind/solar technologies as opposed to just asking for improved emissions/fuel mileage.


I am waiting to see if he brings back the "Fairness Doctrine"( bad thing) or repeals the Patriot Acts (hell would probably freeze over first but anyway). If he repeals the Patriot Acts, I will ignore misguided "green" policies in my overjoyed state, for a little while anyway.

 

[skeptik]

Obama is above criticism and is the most amazing person alive.

 

[Dak]

Obama is above criticism and is the most amazing person alive.

Sometimes I wonder why Dodens doesn't have himself on ignore.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

*moved to this thread*

Thanks.

Bad. The Federal Gov't shouldn't be funding any establishments for abortion purposes, foreign or domestic.

But as I understand it, it wasn't just funding groups for the purpose of abortion, it was funding groups because they were associated with abortion. And besides, there are some circumstances in which (I think) abortion is acceptable (i.e. rape), and which the Gag Rule didn't seem sensitive to (unsurprisingly).

We won't fully withdraw, not to mention it's merely a misdirectional ploy as we are taking the personnel pulled out of Iraq and dropping them into Afghanistan. He is still carrying with same globalist interference. Would be good but it's not going to happen.

I'm having a hard time following this for some reason (I'm not terribly familiar with the situation though). What do you mean by "misdirectional ploy", and what's "not going to happen"?

Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. Can't say it enough.

Yeah, probably. Again though, my foreign relations knowledge is pretty shit, and I'm not sure exactly how Pakistan is reacting to this (or will).

If Obama was serious about energy independence, we would also be tapping the oil field in the Dakotas and aggressively working on more nuclear/wind/solar technologies as opposed to just asking for improved emissions/fuel mileage.

Yeah, in general he's always seemed to emphasise the environmental side of the energy issue and not so much the practical side. I guess there's always a few downsides to being a cookiecutter liberal (pun intended? ).

edit: I forgot about the alternate technologies thing you mentioned. I wouldn't blame him too much for not being 'aggressive' about implementing that for now, given the economic shithole we're in.

I am waiting to see if he brings back the "Fairness Doctrine"( bad thing) or repeals the Patriot Acts (hell would probably freeze over first but anyway). If he repeals the Patriot Acts, I will ignore misguided "green" policies in my overjoyed state, for a little while anyway.

I'm not familiar with the Fairness Doctrine issue, but what's so bad about it? At face value at least, the principle seems right, though the execution may be misguided.

As far as the Patriot Act, I don't recall him ever mentioning that in his Presidential campaign, so who knows. It would seem in-character for him to repeal it, though, so I'm reasonably optimistic.

 

[Dak]

Thanks.

But as I understand it, it wasn't just funding groups for the purpose of abortion, it was funding groups because they were associated with abortion. And besides, there are some circumstances in which (I think) abortion is acceptable (i.e. rape), and which the Gag Rule didn't seem sensitive to (unsurprisingly).

Well I am against tax-dollars being used for funding miscellaneous groups anyway, regardless of reason/purpose of group, abortion supporting groups being no exception. If you incur medical expenses due to abortion for rape (which comprises a extremely minute percentage of abortions), thats another matter but one that gets beaten like a dead horse to defend what amounts to a lot of expense to the taxpayer for people fucking and not giving a shit about the consequences.

"Oh shit, I had unprotected sex and now I'm pregnant. Someone else pay for my dumbass screwup".

I'm having a hard time following this for some reason (I'm not terribly familiar with the situation though). What do you mean by "misdirectional ploy", and what's "not going to happen"?

Misdirectional ploy as in regardless of whether we actually ever pull out of Iraq completely or not, he can point to saying "well I told them to work on it" and people will see that and forget about it, while on the other hand he is sending tens of thousands to Afghanistan to do the exact same thing.

Look up Robert Gates quotes about how the campaign results would change nothing, and sure enough he is still the Sec of Defense. We have dumped too much money into Iraq, as far as base building, to leave anytime soon. We also increased the size of the USMC and the USArmy by over 90,000. Why do this if we didn't intend to need them. That's a lot of salaries/increased spending for gear/billeting even if nothing else, for them to sit in garrison.

Yeah, probably. Again though, my foreign relations knowledge is pretty shit, and I'm not sure exactly how Pakistan is reacting to this (or will).

The fact that we are launching attacks into a sovereign (nuclear) country without permission from them is a big problem. And people wonder why the US is disliked by other nations.

Yeah, in general he's always seemed to emphasise the environmental side of the energy issue and not so much the practical side. I guess there's always a few downsides to being a cookiecutter liberal (pun intended? ).

edit: I forgot about the alternate technologies thing you mentioned. I wouldn't blame him too much for not being 'aggressive' about implementing that for now, given the economic shithole we're in.

Well if he is going to create jobs for revitalizing the countries infrastructure, what could possibly be more important than energy generating facilities, which would create follow-on jobs.

I'm not familiar with the Fairness Doctrine issue, but what's so bad about it? At face value at least, the principle seems right, though the execution may be misguided.

What the Fairness Doctrine translates into is a crack down on free speech. You can't give your side unless someone else wants to give the opposing opinion (censorship), which means in general there will be a severe downsizing in talk radio etc. Look up what happened to radio during the last Fairness Doctrine, and then the explosion of talk radio afterwards.

As far as the Patriot Act, I don't recall him ever mentioning that in his Presidential campaign, so who knows. It would seem in-character for him to repeal it, though, so I'm reasonably optimistic.

Well I don't hold your optimism. Looking at all of the personnel he has put in his cabinet etc, I see nothing but continuing the status quo from Clinton/Bush on what are deemed the important issues, with maybe some "candy" thrown out here and there.

 

[AchrisK]

Sometimes I wonder why Dodens doesn't have himself on ignore.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Well I am against tax-dollars being used for funding miscellaneous groups anyway, regardless of reason/purpose of group, abortion supporting groups being no exception. If you incur medical expenses due to abortion for rape (which comprises a extremely minute percentage of abortions), thats another matter but one that gets beaten like a dead horse to defend what amounts to a lot of expense to the taxpayer for people fucking and not giving a shit about the consequences.

"Oh shit, I had unprotected sex and now I'm pregnant. Someone else pay for my dumbass screwup".

I have a hard time believing you're against all internationally-funded groups (i.e. the U.N. and others that facilitate diplomacy, provide famine relief, etc.). That's just ridiculous. You might question their efficiency, but international organisations can (and often do) make the world a better place.

Naturally we can go back and forth on the severity of the abuses of pro-abortion versus anti-abortion groups/legislation, but it's obviously more complicated than just "people fucking and not giving a shit".

Misdirectional ploy as in regardless of whether we actually ever pull out of Iraq completely or not, he can point to saying "well I told them to work on it" and people will see that and forget about it, while on the other hand he is sending tens of thousands to Afghanistan to do the exact same thing.

Look up Robert Gates quotes about how the campaign results would change nothing, and sure enough he is still the Sec of Defense. We have dumped too much money into Iraq, as far as base building, to leave anytime soon. We also increased the size of the USMC and the USArmy by over 90,000. Why do this if we didn't intend to need them. That's a lot of salaries/increased spending for gear/billeting even if nothing else, for them to sit in garrison.

Yeah, sounds about right.

Well if he is going to create jobs for revitalizing the countries infrastructure, what could possibly be more important than energy generating facilities, which would create follow-on jobs.

I couldn't say. I'm not sure that's a very cost-effective way of creating jobs, though. Power plants can be pretty expensive.

 

[Dak]

I have a hard time believing you're against all internationally-funded groups (i.e. the U.N. and others that facilitate diplomacy, provide famine relief, etc.). That's just ridiculous. You might question their efficiency, but international organisations can (and often do) make the world a better place.

Naturally we can go back and forth on the severity of the abuses of pro-abortion versus anti-abortion groups/legislation, but it's obviously more complicated than just "people fucking and not giving a shit".

I am not really talking about the U.N. (although I am anti-UN as it currently functions). We are a member of the U.N., I am talking about handing out money to various groups, whether they be ecological or social in nature (this comprises most of them) that are not a part of the beaurocracy.
The government should not be involved in abortion whatsoever anyway imo, unless they take the stand that it's murder and then it would be merely carrying out existing laws forbidding murder, not needing to create fresh legislation.

I couldn't say. I'm not sure that's a very cost-effective way of creating jobs, though. Power plants can be pretty expensive.

The only longterm solution to US economic/job issues is to bring back/create production jobs and repeal most if not all the "free trade" legislation that creates an uneven playing field for domestic products versus imports from countries with no minimum wage/quality of life/environmental laws.
Jobs created through production renewel (including most importantly energy creation which further reduces wealth lost to importing) will last with proper administration/legislative backing. Jobs created for service will ultimately end, and end in bankruptcy just like our current economy is.

 

[cookiecutter]

If I was a fetus I would let Obama abort me

 

[sadistik necrofiend]

I think he is either going to be really good and do some good stuff for this country or he is going to be very dangerous and end up being even more dangerous than the puppet Bush. Either he is a puppet as well or he has something up his clever sleeve.

I hope he does well and I think it is good to be optimistic about it all, but I am not going to be in a trance like the rest of the people who are basically treating him like the next messiah.

I think there is a complex picture with Obama and it is definetly wise to step back and take another look as much as possible.
We'll see what happens I guess.

 

[no country for old wainds]

to point out the obvious, he is a very impressive, accomplished man, not the ’simian abomination’ referenced above; people should be more discerning when interpreting blanket statements; a country full of men like him would be a far worthier country than one crammed full of corpulent white trash rednecks.

 

[sadistik necrofiend]

Certainly aint gonna lay off bombing Pakistan.

Drone planes having been bombing so called enemy territory quite a bit lately.

People are quite illusioned that he is Anti-War. Then again this could be interpreted several ways.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

to point out the obvious, he is a very impressive, accomplished man, not the ’simian abomination’ referenced above; people should be more discerning when interpreting blanket statements; a country full of men like him would be a far worthier country than one crammed full of corpulent white trash rednecks.

Arghoslent

 

[sadistik necrofiend]

Arghoslent

lol

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

No, really, that's from an interview with the band.

 

[sadistik necrofiend]

yeah, I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[False Joe]

I would let Obama put his big black cock in me.
Then I'd abort the baby.
Because he let me.
You know what Obama needs? An action figure.

 

[waif]

I lol'd.

Obama's been doing what I expected. Making good on most of his campaign promises while preparing to cover his ass. Definite improvement, though not perfect.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

The fact that we are launching attacks into a sovereign (nuclear) country without permission from them is a big problem. And people wonder why the US is disliked by other nations.

Just did some research on this.

Based on the following article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/24/pakistan-barack-obama-air-strike

And this map:

I doubt the Pakistani government is freaking out over our attacks. Also, hadn't Bush already authorised some airstrikes over there?