The Books/Reading Thread

[Valerie]

I bought this at Borders this morning and read it in one sitting. I just got back from returning it and got my money back. Should I feel bad?

You know what a library is right?

 

[skeptik]

Einherjar gave a pretty good description, though I would be more keen to de-emphasize the association between 'weird fiction' and 'science fiction'. Of course the two often interbreed, but there is a definite separation. Weird fiction usually utilizes science in order to heighten the idea of the 'cosmic' (as Lovecraft calls it) element that is normally the focus of the story. In other words, it's usually like "the scientific basis that accounts for the existence of this creature is beyond our reckoning". As Ein rightly pointed out, the genre (insofar as it is a genre; the term actually more or less refers to a pretty broad range of stories that pre-exists 'genre fiction') focuses on the frailty of man and his inability to account for the things that he experiences in these stories with his understanding of the way the world works. The primary tool of the genre is the atmosphere of horror, dread, fear, awe, and wonder and the way said atmosphere is built and sustained. It also stresses that the story must deal with that which is outside the realms of the possible, yet treated with the utmost realism. Lovecraft has a few good quotes about the genre:

Because we remember pain and the menace of death more vividly than pleasure, and because our feelings toward the beneficent aspects of the unknown have from the first been captured and formalised by conventional religious rituals, it has fallen to the lot of the darker and more maleficent side of cosmic mystery to figure chiefly in our popular supernatural folklore. This tendency, too, is naturally enhanced by the fact that uncertainty and danger are always closely allied; thus making any kind of an unknown world a world of peril and evil possibilities. When to this sense of fear and evil the inevitable fascination of wonder and curiosity is superadded, there is born a composite body of keen emotion and imaginative provocation whose vitality must of necessity endure as long as the human race itself.

The true weird tale has something more than secret murder, bloody bones, or a sheeted form clanking chains according to rule. A certain atmosphere of breathless and unexplainable dread of outer, unknown forces must be present; and there must be a hint, expressed with a seriousness and portentousness becoming its subject, of that most terrible conception of the human brain -- a malign and particular suspension or defeat of those fixed laws of Nature which are our only safeguard against the assaults of chaos and the daemons of unplumbed space.

Atmosphere is the all-important thing, for the final criterion of authenticity is not the dovetailing of a plot but the creation of a given sensation. We may say, as a general thing, that a weird story whose intent is to teach or produce a social effect, or one in which the horrors are finally explained away by natural means, is not a genuine tale of cosmic fear; but it remains a fact that such narratives often possess, in isolated sections, atmospheric touches which fulfill every condition of true supernatural horror-literature. Therefore we must judge a weird tale not by the author's intent, or by the mere mechanics of the plot; but by the emotional level which it attains at its least mundane point. If the proper sensations are excited, such a "high spot" must be admitted on its own merits as weird literature, no matter how prosaically it is later dragged down.

 

[King Richard]

You know what a library is right?

I have a bookcase for the books I keep, which is a majority of the ones I buy. This particular book I didn't feel was a keeper.

Basically what I'm saying is, yes I know what a library is, but I don't like checking out books from the public library, I'd rather buy a brand new copy of the book and put it with my own collection if I deem it as a keeper, otherwise I just return it usually.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

The Koran.

 

[King Richard]

Ok just bought a few on Amazon:

American Psycho (for some reason I've never read this)
House of Leaves (because everyone is raving about it in this thread)
and last but not least, Snow Crash

 

[Einherjar86]

Ahhh, I've read great things about Snow Crash! I'll probably buy it myself pretty soon, but let us know what you think when you finish.

 

[King Richard]

Will do.

 

[unknown]

Ok just bought a few on Amazon:

American Psycho (for some reason I've never read this)
House of Leaves (because everyone is raving about it in this thread)
and last but not least, Snow Crash

three of my favorite novels of all time

in regards to weird fiction, I wouldn't link it at all to science fiction since none of the classical authors really have any ties with science fiction at all. Most of the authors (Bierce, Lovecraft, Blackwood, Dunsany, Machen...) are more closely linked to horror and the fantasy realm rather than science fiction. Lovecraft admitted himself he couldn't stand advancements in technology, and that's kind of a big deal in science fiction.

The quotes Dodens posted from Lovecraft pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ligotti in The Conspiracy Against the Human Race expounds quite a bit on how weird fiction and supernatural horror are supposed to function and affect the reader, and that it largely has to do with the fact that we as humans do not know everything about the universe, nor are we supposed to, and when we do, we often don't like what the universe has to say about us or has in store for us (being consumed or ripped apart...). Ligotti has a great quote in one of his stories in My Work is Not Yet Done: "The idea of a 'grand scheme of things' is a nightmarish absurdity"

also the very notion of science fiction taking place in the future entails some sort of future for mankind. I'm certain Lovecraft (and Ligotti would agree) mankind doesn't deserve a future (and this is of course barring revisionist/historical fiction, etc...)

 

[rms]

if there was 2-3 top tier novels of this genre, what would it be?

 

[skeptik]

Well the vast majority of weird fiction is in short story form, so you're mostly looking to get anthologies here. I would recommend:

HP Lovecraft - The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories
Algernon Blackwood - Ancient Sorceries and Other Weird Stories
Arthur Machen - The Three Imposters and Other Stories

Obviously a purchase of a Poe anthology would be well rewarded as well. Lovecraft rightly labeled him as the father of the true weird tale in such stories as "The Masque of the Red Death", "The Fall of the House of Usher", "Ligeia", and "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar". Poe had an extraordinary influence on Lovecraft style and mannerisms, as well as pretty much every other weird fiction writer to follow.

If you read those and like them, there's a fair bit more that I can suggest.

 

[Einherjar86]

three of my favorite novels of all time

in regards to weird fiction, I wouldn't link it at all to science fiction since none of the classical authors really have any ties with science fiction at all. Most of the authors (Bierce, Lovecraft, Blackwood, Dunsany, Machen...) are more closely linked to horror and the fantasy realm rather than science fiction. Lovecraft admitted himself he couldn't stand advancements in technology, and that's kind of a big deal in science fiction...

also the very notion of science fiction taking place in the future entails some sort of future for mankind. I'm certain Lovecraft (and Ligotti would agree) mankind doesn't deserve a future (and this is of course barring revisionist/historical fiction, etc...)

These are both good points, and maybe I should clarify what I mean: I think that today's writers of weird fiction are more inspired/influenced by science fiction, and I think this has to do with the increase in science fiction literature during the past century. When Lovecraft, Dunsany and Bierce were writing, science fiction wasn't as developed as it is now; but authors like China Mieville and Jeff Vandermeer recognize, I think, the importance of science fiction and have taken to incorporating some of its themes into their efforts. Perdido Street Station deals pretty extensively with AI, for instance.

However, this doesn't change the fact that, at its origin, weird fiction was probably more influenced by horror and fantasy.

 

[Draehl]

However, this doesn't change the fact that, at its origin, weird fiction was probably more influenced by horror and fantasy.

Speaking of which, anyone know of any good dark/horror type fantasy? I'm beginning to lose interest in your Drizzt Do'Urden type books. Good action writing, for sure, but I get tired of the goodie goodness.

 

[unknown]

have you tried Clive Barker?

 

[Einherjar86]

Well, although I feel like I keep fellating this book to no end, I'd suggest China Mieville's Perdido Street Station. It takes place in a completely fantasy setting, but there's no sword and sorcery or any of that kind of stuff. It's a dark, disgusting, depraved and depressing book.

 

[skeptik]

I would like to point out that there is some correlation between 'science fiction' (or rather its anticipation before 'science fiction' was a proper genre) within the the established weird fiction cannon. Clark Ashton Smith, for example, wrote a fair amount of weird fiction that verges on science fiction (and science fiction that verges on the weird), such as the tales that take place on Zothique. Even Lovecraft has a few significant divergences into what could be debated as science fiction. So Einherjar was right to point out the relationship, but I just wanted to emphasize that the relationship should not be stressed, as while it is certainly an occasional element in the genre, it is not a significant defining feature.

Also, what you said about some of the newer progenitors of the genre piques my interest. S.T. Joshi was starting to mention some of the newer writers, and it's definitely a topic I intend to explore in my interview. I do have an anthology of Thomas Ligotti's work that I haven't gotten to yet, but as may be obvious, I already have an extensive reading list under way. Right now I'm working my way through Lovecraft's essay.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'd be interested in reading that interview. Is it something you're planning for the next issue of Heretic's Torch, or is this for an unrelated publication?

 

[Cythraul]

Currently reading:

Person, Polis, Planet by David Schmidtz
Economic Growth by Robert Barro and Xavier Sala-i-Martin

 

[damnromulans]

Has anyone read 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea? I've got limited options but I'm looking to buy a classic novel (in english) to read between now and my trip to America next week, preferably one centered around ships and oceans.

 

[unknown]

read At the Mountains of Madness by Lovecraft *continuing with the theme*

 

[Einherjar86]

Read Perdido Street Station.