The "controversial opinions" thread!

Aaron Smith said:
I definitely don't mean to come across as being "holier-than-thou"- perhaps I just haven't been choosing my words carefully enough, or maybe it's just that it's difficult to concisely communicate this topic on an internet message board. Ironically, one of the core tenets of Christian faith is to accept that you are depraved and sinful in God's eyes, which is precisely the opposite of looking upon others and feeling some sense of superiority or righteousness. God sees me the same way he sees Osama bin Laden, so I have no reason to boast whatsoever.
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This is just sad, very sad. :cry:

Eternity sucking "God's" balls but he thinks you're shit, oh and he loves you! :loco:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also agree with Jesus and his "sacrifice". "God" wasn't very creative here because I could put together a sacrifice truly fitting of "salvation". Dude got a deal of a life time, I would have signed right up but with this added little bit: I can leave "eternity" when I feel like it and have my lights put out.

I don't like the whole "Heaven works differently from our earthly ways, time and space, blah blah blah. As if the Christian in question has been there. Well I say, if you can't be the you, you are on earth, those same memories, thoughts, compassion ect., I can't call it heaven for I won't be who I am. Something would have to be removed or modified, thus I'm not me.

By the way, how do you/we remember anything at all without a brian?

About the word "Atheist". In my case I don't outright say "There is no God" because I don't fucking know with 100% certainty. Christians, Muslims, ect. are the ones claiming this absolute "truth". (for no good reason by the way) I just don't believe in their "Gods" or "holy" texts. If a "God" of some sort slaps me upside my head and says something to the effect of "Yo pimpin, watdup! Diz be God in da hizouse. Betta recognize" I would consider said "God" and come to a conclusion.

This whole faith thing is just an excuse. Essentially they just want you to STFU and believe.

Christianity boils down to: STFU, you're shit, you're special, "God" loves you, you're shit to him, kneel,(insert penis in mouth, cry rape, nothing gets done about it) just believe, tear you down, bring you up, circle jerk, claim your prize at the bottom of the cereal box but first give us some money before your departure. We have other people to scam.

It seems to me, no amount of rape and slaughter can make "God" a bad guy in Christian's eyes. Dude kills anybody at will (about 25 million women, men and children. Not including animals. With 3-4 billion to go according to revelations) and they're all like "God is love". WTF is the matter with you people? Why aren't you puckering up to Hitlers ass if this is what you call love?

Eternity in heaven has to be hell. I think it's a no win situation.

I don't like it when people say things to the effect of "You can feel it in your heart", "If you search with your heart" Fuck you! It's just a muscle pumping blood not a emotional transmitter/receiver.

Fuck you and your soul! Where did we get the idea we have a "soul"? I'll tell you where, from our assholes. Some scared but manipulative asshole pulled it right out of his anus and appealed to the emotions of the people. Much like cancer, it's still spreading.
 
GarethSE said:
Who cares about practical use when depression rates are soaring?
A technologically advanced, intellectually enlightened society where everyone's miserable and loading themselves up on anti-depressants and you're worried about practical use?

The rest of your comment is pretty much fair game. I'm not gonna disagree with you. I have zero proof for anything I say, but how many people go by what they have felt and experienced rather than what one or more of the many institutions (that includes religion AND science) have told them is the truth?
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Is that another form of the whole "what's the harm?" argument?

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one. - George Bernard Shaw

It's pretty easy to find happiness here in reality, you just have to look for it in this realm rather than some imaginary one in which you have to literally delude yourself into being happy. Understanding how the universe works through scientific means does not cheapen or lessen the 'meaning' of anything in the world to me, but validates and demonstrates how truly amazing the universe actually is. And in my opinion, this is far more amazing than some silly chakra or some crazed creator constantly punishing his own creations yet claiming he loves you at the same time.
 
"Isn’t this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?"
Tim Minchin
 
Aaron Smith said:
I hear what you're trying to say- that an atheist doesn't literally consider himself to be some kind of god, and being that an atheist believes there to be no actual deity in control of the universe and no spiritual beings at work in the world, then psychologically, the concept of God is void...I won't argue with that, and I can see why that makes sense on the surface. But what I'm saying, is that from a functional standpoint, atheists are choosing to live as if they are their own god; that if God exists and has made his presence knowable in some way, atheists have chosen to let their own intellect take precedence over God's revelation. In that way, they have made their own intellect their god, completely ignoring that the path to belief may not be strictly a matter of intellectual accumulation.

Nothing I've posted in this thread so far is even specific to a Christian worldview- I am only arguing that if God exists and he has made his existence knowable, then atheists, with all their intellect, are completely and utterly missing the point because they have chosen their own minds to be gods, as it is their own mind that is keeping them from knowing God. If God doesn't exist, then fine- everything I do and believe is utterly meaningless anyway, but the question of God and eternity is certainly important enough that it deserves serious consideration...consideration that reaches beyond the conclusions can be drawn by mere scientific and physical calculation.

An atheist is willing to trade the potential of eternity for what they perceive to be maximum earthly fulfillment, while a Christian is willing to humble himself in regards to eternity, and he finds maximum earthly fulfillment in the process.
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You don't seem to realize that you can apply this sort of logic to anything and everything. What if your own mind is keeping you from knowing Ahura Mazda or recognizing his revelation? Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

The idea that there is a specific divine being watching over you has no more likelihood of being literally true than any other outlandish idea or hypothesis that one may decide to put forward (including all other specific divine beings, of course). It also has no more evidence....at least the kind that is not completely self-referencing. If self-referencing evidence is good enough, I could just write a book about my own fantastic ideas and allow it to be proof enough for itself that I would not accept your argument against it. (well....at least someone in a few hundred years could get a way with that)


As for your final point, you're basically referencing Pascal's wager here. What if you're wrong about god? Not on the question of his existence, but on the question of what he expects of you and how you should live your life? What if the way to salvation is to do the most good with the body and the life that you were given - with no thought to eternal life and rewards beyond it? What if the acknowledgement of those things is worthy of condemnation? The evidence you have for your particular interpretation is the accumulation of anecdotes from a bunch of bronze age goat-herders....what if some other primitives were correct and Ahura Mazda is the one true god?

Atheism is is not necessarily believing with 100% certainty that no god exists. It can also be the realization that any idea that humanity may put forth about what god is or may be is a total fabrication and could just as easily be confusing the issue as much as shedding light on it. It could be steering mankind in the wrong direction just as easily as correcting him.

Contrary to your assertions, I see humility in atheism. I do not have the answers, and no matter how badly I would like to have them - I will not surrender to fantasy just for the comforts it may provide.
There is no arrogance in doing good for goodness' sake - rather than doing it with expectations of future rewards. There is no self-centerdness in avoiding evil only for the human consequences it creates - not for fear of burning in torment for eternity.

If you must insist that these reasons are somehow not good enough on their own, than I insist that you cease to cite the religious as the humble among their brothers.

And if god exists -and these reasons are also not good enough for him.....than I would not wish to know him.
 
timislegend said:
the word atheism comes from the greek word atheos which literally means (faithless or without god). so, that is exactly what it means.
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No, Will is still correct and this is where semantics come into play.

Just because you have no inherent belief in something doesnt mean you don't believe in the possibility or potential of it existing. Ergo lack of belief is not necessarily all out disbelief. This is where further subcategorisation of atheism comes in, for example an agnostic atheist (or the branch that I associate with most closely and I'm sure a lot of other people do too) is defined as such:

"Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not have belief in the existence of any deity, and agnostic because they do not claim to know that a deity does not exist"
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The fact people still not only believe but also praise, adore and fear god is beyond me. Just stating a "controversial opinion", I don't have anything more to add to the discussion since Jorge and Will already said everything I could possibly say and more. Now let's see Aaron fade away AGAIN without any answers besides "we can't understand him cause we're stupider than him" and see this discussion resurface in a few months with the same ending.
 
Thank you Owen.

While I believe it is highly unlikely, I do not hold with 100% certainty the belief that no god exists. Claiming 100% certainty on such a matter would invoke some sort of faith - which would be antithetical to what I stand for. I believe such would be the case for many atheists, especially those who arrived at their position in the same manner that I did.

I accept the possibility that some such entity may exist, although I am much closer to 100% certainty regarding the notion that any human ideas as to the nature of said entity would be completely and totally off the mark. :)
 
STINNETT said:
Thank you Owen.

While I believe it is highly unlikely, I do not hold with 100% certainty the belief that no god exists. Claiming 100% certainty on such a matter would invoke some sort of faith - which would be antithetical to what I stand for. I believe such would be the case for many atheists, especially those who arrived at their position in the same manner that I did.

I accept the possibility that some such entity may exist, although I am much closer to 100% certainty regarding the notion that any human ideas as to the nature of said entity would be completely and totally off the mark. :)
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I agree completely with you and I'm in the same position, I see it as if there really is a god, the chances of him COINCIDENTALLY being exactly as the christians (or any religious group) envision him to be are slimmer than me winning the lottery three weeks in a row
 
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