The demise of Royal Carnage...

General Zod

Ruler of Australia
May 1, 2001
New Jersey
This is a carry over from another thread, where a passing comment I made, on a topic I thought was common knowledge, led to a lot of the regulars asking questions. As to not upend that thread, I'll post my response here. I would have responded sooner to those inquiries, but didn't feel comfortable saying much more without JayKeeley's blessing... which I've since received. Ironically, he too thought this was all common knowledge.

Please keep in mind, a lot of these decisions were made several years ago, so not all of this is fresh in my mind. Perhaps JK will add to this thread, as he's at least aware it's being discussed.

In essence, there were a number of factors at play in the closing of the Royal Carnage forum; some of which were also tied to the 'zine. First, there was burn out. People were sick and tired of reviewing the endless shit-stream of CDs being pushed upon us by the labels. The second factor was real life. Folks like JK had less and less time to devote to the 'zine and to post to the forum. However, neither factor would have shut down "Royal Carnage" the forum. The forum was still viewed as a thriving entity, and there was little reason to close it down or rename it.

As time passed, the forum began to attract a different sort of poster. I suspect this had to do with the discussions regarding NSBM and some of its offshoot sub-genres. While these discussions were never an issue in the past, they slowly began to be. In the past, folks like JayKeeley, Dark One and Guggs viewed the genre as having musical value, but laughed off the lyrics as being no more worthy of critical consideration than those of Satanic bands offering praise to Lucifer. However, as time passed, it seemed that some posters started praising the message and a racist undercurrent began to appear.

As Ali would later tell me, it got to the point where you could Google certain racist topics and wind up with links to Royal Carnage threads. Suffice it to say, this was not the vision he had when he, Dark One and Guggs began the forum. Given that JK had neither the time nor the inclination to fight with these posters on a daily basis or try to undo the damage that already had been done to the Royal Carnage name, he and Deron agreed to rename the forum. Why it was renamed instead of closed is a topic I won't go into, out of respect to both Ali and Deron.

As for questions as to why this wasn't made public, I couldn't say. Perhaps because the damage was already done to the Royal Carnage name? Perhaps because so many of the original posters had already been driven off by the racist posts? Again, on this aspect, I can't really offer any insight.
Hmmm interesting, so I'm the reason why Ali packed up his bags and closed up shop eh? Good to know. He could have easily mentioned this to me over the countless numbers of beers we shared at HCII/HCIII. I figured he had enough insight to know that I wasn't a bigot, although I would readily admit that negars make me grimace in disgust at the slightest detection of their malodorous husks.

hmm, this will be an interesting evening. I'll catch up with my bills, mix up a strong one and come back here.
Other than RiA though, I don't remember all that much racism, or if there was it was in a joking/satirical manner. Maybe I was gone then.

Lizard dying had a lot more to do with it than people think.... :(
Ali, had not once ever mentioned any dissatisfaction with any of my posts. Had he done so, I would have ceased and desisted immediately, as I had on your CoreFTP when you kindly asked me to respect the wishes of all the PP lads. The only person who I take responsibility for driving off was Jason, and that's after he scored a plane ticket to fly to Los Angeles to hang out with our "syndicate" for a weekend to catch D666. His skivvies rose after he himself made mention of the proximity of a certain metal venue located smack dab in negarville. Which I was kindly willing to attend for his sake solely. He himself made a negar jest, which was a volley that led me in a PM tirade on these disease bearing malcontents. He consequently turned emo and was never heard or seen again.

What a shame.
I'm a short-timer compared to pretty much everyone except Plastic. I was invited by JK but he wasn't around for long after I started posting. I always just assumed it was life...having a family, a demanding job, etc that led to his ultimate departure. He was one hell of a cool guy when I met him (and the rest of you) at HC. Hopefully I'm not viewed as one of the racist crew. I'm not interested in that crap at all.

I just assumed it was my low-brow humor and inability to add anything of substance that sparked the demise.
I'm pretty sure it's safe to say RC meant a lot more than just "fucking around on the internet" to some people... and I get that just from the stories I hear since I wasn't around for any of this.
Well, I can understand not wanting to have something like racism tied to a project that I've worked hard to create and maintain. Especially if it's something that represents me on any sort of professional level. Damn that Google search. Once it's there, it's there.

I don't recall a whole lot of racism besides RiA's posts. Then again, I hardly read any threads on here :lol:
well i am surprised and sad that this was part of the reason for the demise. Not sure how big of a factor, but hopefully not its major one.

I think we do have all races and creeds here and am sure between the regulars none of us are that thin skinned that we can't take a joke knowing well that (I hope) all of us respect and do care about each other on some level. Otherwise we wouldn't come back.
God knows that Romanians take shit all the time all over Europe and i know to most of its populace I am probably a gypsy no matter what so i know about this shit somewhat first hand.

But I think, if my memory serves me right, the big factor was when all those nsbm and ass sex stories and videos were posted that attracted hundreds of visitors at one point. You guys have to remember that UM gets a lot of daily traffic from regulars so anything posted on it gets spidered pretty quickly on search engines and threads rank high pretty quickly in search results.

Anyway ... it is what it is, but I am sure this could have been resolved if it was such a major factor in the closing of the original board.
OK... so just to clarify a bit, the other factors I mentioned played a role in the final decision as well. In addition, I don't recall JK ever singling out any one poster as the sole issue. It would be ideal if JK would chime in, and correct anything I may have explained poorly.
okay so i've been around rc since the very beginning and i like this forum and most of the people here, and i think it's a shame that jayk didn't feel like he wanted to be a part of it anymore, and i agree that this should have been brought out into the open but:

is the "closing of the Royal Carnage forum" really a BIG DEAL? literally all that's happened is a graphic change. the banner up there says "rc" now (it is a problem i guess that it is a lot uglier, lemme redesign that shit!) big whoop.

also for the record i am not a racist and the only racist i can think of is RiA, whom i like (i didn't like him when he first came here but that's just because i dislike and distrust all the nubs.) i'm sure i have made some FUNNY ASS JOKES at some point that involved words like "jew" and possibly "my pals" but again, if someone had told me that shit wasn't kosher (he he) i would have stopped. also i am a lot more sensitive these days
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also i am a lot more sensitive these days

As am I. You'd have to go back 2-3 years to find a page long negar jag penned by my hand. I've grown to tolerate this infestation and no longer need this forum as an outlet for my frustration. Most of the people I associate with are non-white, and I have an entire horde of relatives who are full blooded Mexican. As far as the charred goes, I give everyone an opportunity to endear themselves to my heart based on their individual merits alone, though when it comes to blacks, I'm a little more leery at first. Rightfully so if you've ever caught two seconds of the nightly news.

Greg, inform Ali of the hugfest RC has become.
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