The great and all powerful religion thread!

[Dak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

If you think my castle
Is built on sand
Well bring on the tides
You can fuck off and die

So energy (even in the vacuum) always existed? I don't think that is provable.

 

[genocide roach]

and now we're back to the argument of ignorance...
~gR~

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Seriously, this is pathetic. Also GR, what's the harm in just trying? Science attempts to know the unknowable; there have been plenty of things we've deemed unknowable in the past that we clearly have very positive knowledge about now. I don't see why it's wrong to attempt to know (esp. if the final product of the search causes Christians to be wrong ).

 

[genocide roach]

its perfectly fine to try and find out.

i think its human nature ask questions and try to answer them. but while we are researching, i think its perfectly alright to say "we dont know" or if it makes people feel better "we dont know yet"
~gR~

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

(oh, you added to your post):

I agree.

 

[cookiecutter]

GR is making a good point. A lot of people right now use the cosmological argument as a proof of God. This argument is bolstered by the fact that right there really is no explanation for the origin of the universe that is perfect. However, where believers go wrong is assuming that a lack of an explanation is evidence for their one particular explanation. If you can't understand this think of the Inca. They had no idea what the sun was. Their explanation was that it was a god. We now know quite conclusively that it is a large sphere of gas and decidedly not divine. How are we different from the Inca if we say plug in God as the reason for the universe's existence in the absence of another explanation?

On an unrelated note, here's a relevant study that just happened at U of T.

Researchers find brain differences between believers and non-believers
By April Kemick, posted Wednesday, March 4, 2009

Believing in God can help block anxiety and minimize stress, according to new University of Toronto research that shows distinct brain differences between believers and non-believers.

In two studies led by Professor Michael Inzlicht of psychology, participants performed a Stroop task - a well-known test of cognitive control - while hooked up to electrodes that measured their brain activity.

Compared to non-believers, the religious participants showed significantly less activity in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), a portion of the brain that helps modify behaviour by signalling when attention and control are needed, usually as a result of some anxiety-producing event like making a mistake. The stronger their religious zeal and the more they believed in God, the less their ACC fired in response to their own errors and the fewer errors they made.

"You could think of this part of the brain like a cortical alarm bell that rings when an individual has just made a mistake or experiences uncertainty," said lead author Inzlicht, who teaches and conducts research at the University of Toronto Scarborough. "We found that religious people or even people who simply believe in the existence of God show significantly less brain activity in relation to their own errors. They're much less anxious and feel less stressed when they have made an error."

These correlations remained strong even after controlling for personality and cognitive ability, said Inzlicht, who also found that religious participants made fewer errors on the Stroop task than their non-believing counterparts.

Their findings show religious belief has a calming effect on its devotees, which makes them less likely to feel anxious about making errors or facing the unknown. But Inzlicht cautioned that anxiety is a "double-edged sword" that is at times necessary and helpful.

"Obviously, anxiety can be negative because if you have too much, you're paralyzed with fear," he said. "However, it also serves a very useful function in that it alerts us when we're making mistakes. If you don't experience anxiety when you make an error, what impetus do you have to change or improve your behaviour so you don't make the same mistakes again and again?"

The paper, appearing online in Psychological Science, was co-authored by Professor Ian McGregor at York University and by Jacob Hirsh and Kyle Nash, doctoral candidates at the University of Toronto and York University, respectively.

 

[Dak]

That would explain why I can handle my conspiracy laden understanding of the world with very little stress and anxiety, but some people get extremely depressed about the shitty situation the world is in.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

*misunderstanding of the world

 

[Dak]

This is really for another thread, but if you don't think the "international banking cartel" had a hand in creating our current economic situation among other things, you really haven't done any research.

 

[genocide roach]

im fine with feeling stressed about the outlook of our world.

what i got out of that study is: i use more of my brain than christians
~gR~

 

[Dak]

im fine with feeling stressed about the outlook of our world.

what i got out of that study is: i use more of my brain than christians
~gR~

Sort of like how someone who is sick all the time uses their immune system more than healthy people?

On a serious note, self-inflicted stress is pointless besides being detrimental to your health.

 

[genocide roach]

are you saying stupid christians are a virus?
~gR~

 

[zabu of nΩd]

im fine with feeling stressed about the outlook of our world.

what i got out of that study is: i use more of my brain than christians
~gR~

The study does not seem to worry you. Perhaps you are interpreting it a little too religiously...?

On a serious note, self-inflicted stress is pointless besides being detrimental to your health.

Ironically Christians actually inflict a great deal of stress on themselves with all their worrying over sin.

 

[Zephyrus]

It is currently a shitty reality, and imo it is because this world is not running like it was intended because of the effects of sin.

The world is running fine. It just needs to shake off this evolutionary mistake called humankind and it will recover.

Not arguing about whether or not things evolved. I am talking about how the "first mass"/atom/sub-atomic particle etc. came into existence. As far as I know science can't explain it other than to assume that mass just always existed.

It should be easier to imagine an eternally existing amount of matter, which operate by the the laws of their very nature rather than some intelligence, than an eternally existing creator of that matter, for the former is much simpler. Sharpen your Occam's Razor.

are you saying stupid christians are a virus?
~gR~

They're the victims.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

for the latter is much simpler

...you mean the former, right?

 

[Zephyrus]

Yes, thank you.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Anytime.

But yeah, inserting a god into the beginning of the universe definitely does nothing to resolve the question of how it began, since you then have to explain how the god got there.

 

[Dak]

Anytime.

But yeah, inserting a god into the beginning of the universe definitely does nothing to resolve the question of how it began, since you then have to explain how the god got there.

TBH it really is the ultimate easy way out because you don't have to explain a god, because he is a god. [It] is outside the "natural realm" and therefore not bound by the laws of the natural.

Edit: But I think we are all aware of that. Kind of "ldo".

 

[S.U.A.D.]

I have to say that I lie somewhere between Atheism and Deism, depending on my mood that day. I absolutely can NOT accept Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc....my eyes were opened to a lot of the BS involved long ago, but recently I have read a lot of Thomas Paine's material, and it really makes you think about things that much more.

 

[Dak]

The world is running fine. It just needs to shake off this evolutionary mistake called humankind and it will recover.

This is an asinine comment that deserves the same response I give everyone who is for population reduction:

"Why don't you set the example and start with yourself then?"

This is not to excuse the mistakes people make, but to say humanity itself is a mistake is absurd and makes me wonder why you haven't committed suicide with that kind of opinion (in fact, not commiting could be considered highly hypocritical).