The great innovators of Metal

[thisisaformicatable]

I'm challenging the inclusion of Impaled Nazarene, here. I find no evidence that this band has anything to do with industrial black metal. All I see is that is had more to do with grindcore and punk than it did with industrial leanings. Whereas Mysticum, from the beginning fostered the unique sound of industrial black metal through use of drum machines and such.

Listen to "Gott Ist Tot (Antichrist War Mix)" from Ugra-Karma (1993). Did Mysticum do anything besides add a drum machine?

If it'll make you happy, sure - I'll put it up. Unfortunately I've never heard Ghoul before, so I can't tell if you're making a serious submission, or if you're just trying to undermine the whole list. Your first post seemed to imply the latter.

They did just as much as Opeth.

...noisy, chaotic speed metal with Satanic lyrics.

Which is black metal, which is pretty much what Bathory started out as as well.

To your question: ballad = slow, sentimental song. That's the best way I can think of for describing their post-BFD sound, so if you've got a better one, please make it known.

I would just say epic, it's less likely to bring to mind images of Bon Jovi.

Then show me a thrash band who came before them, or name some of the co-contributors (and what they contributed). Just because speed metal and hardcore punk existed before Kill 'Em All doesn't mean thrash metal existed before that album.

Venom, Overkill, Metal Church, etc. all had thrash metal songs and moments before Kill em All, Metallica was the first to release a full length focusing solely on the thrash metal concept.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

This is a joke. Thrash is the 80's not 2000's.

Don't worry, I'm not that dumb.

By the way, if you want any of the bands you listed to be put on the list, I need a sentence or two saying what each one contributed to the genre.

 

[Zephyrus]

By the way, is there really any need to have the second comment for Emperor, in reference to Anthems? "Pushing the boundaries" is a little vague to be including as a bullet point on their resumé.

You can remove that part if you don't agree with it.

Listen to "Gott Ist Tot (Antichrist War Mix)" from Ugra-Karma (1993). Did Mysticum do anything besides add a drum machine?

Mysticum also used industrial synths and sounds, while the drum machine had techno-ish leanings, which worked well with the simple, cold black metal riffs.

I consider In the Streams of Inferno to be a hidden classic of the early 90's Norwegian scene.

 

[Pessimism]

Thergothon is not the slowest band, but the band who released the first wave of funeral doom into the world (with their Fhtagn nagh Yog-Sothoth ep in 1991).

Certainly the doom genre was changing (hell, Winter had a release in '89, and disembowelment had a release in 90 I think) - but it was Thergothon that led the pack when weaving those fine funeral tapestries.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Listen to "Gott Ist Tot (Antichrist War Mix)" from Ugra-Karma (1993). Did Mysticum do anything besides add a drum machine?

This is a good question, and one I'd like resolved before editing the current entries for these two groups on the list. Hopefully you two can sort it out between each other.

Which is black metal, which is pretty much what Bathory started out as as well.

Okay - from my understanding, Venom is a first wave BM band who added elements to what would become the modern BM sound, but never actually achieved the modern sound themselves. That sound was consummated by Bathory, and basically all of the black metal bands from the second wave onward would use all the basic elements of Bathory's 1984-1988 sound. This is why I see Venom as merely a contributor to modern black metal, and Bathory as the first real cornerstone of the genre. Does that sound about right?

I would just say epic, it's less likely to bring to mind images of Bon Jovi.

This is really trifling, but whatever. How about "slow-paced"?

Venom, Overkill, Metal Church, etc. all had thrash metal songs and moments before Kill em All, Metallica was the first to release a full length focusing solely on the thrash metal concept.

I changed it to say that Metallica created the first thrash album. Is that acceptable?

 

[Zephyrus]

This is a good question, and one I'd like resolved before editing the current entries for these two groups on the list. Hopefully you two can sort it out between each other.

Even if Impaled Nazarene did create an idustrial black metal sound at the same time as Mysticum, I'd say Mysticum was more ifluential as they influenced Aborym and many others.

 

[False Joe]

This is a joke. Thrash is the 80's not 2000's.

Omg srsly.

i foght it strted wid trivum.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Even if Impaled Nazarene did create an idustrial black metal sound at the same time as Mysticum, I'd say Mysticum was more ifluential as they influenced Aborym and many others.

I'm still not sure what to put on the list. At the moment it's looking something like this:

Impaled Nazarene
* Created the first industrial black metal albums (1991).

Mysticum
* Pioneered the style of industrial black metal (along with Impaled Nazarene), and released some of the genre's most influential albums (Medusa's Tears, 1993; Wintermass, 1993).


Any corrections/clarifications are welcome (and needed).

 

[Zephyrus]

Mysticum
* Pioneered the style of industrial black metal (along with Impaled Nazarene), and released some of the genre's most influential albums (Medusa's Tears, 1993; Wintermass, 1993).

Those two are demo's signed to DSP by Euronymous. In the Streams of Inferno is their only full album.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Gotcha. I'll change the entries accordingly.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I guess to be fair I'll start posting my new submissions down here with everyone else's:

Celtic Frost
* Created a style of thrash metal with chaotic, dissonant riffs and occult lyrics which would be a major influence on black and death metal. (Morbid Tales, 1984)
* One of the earliest metal groups to combine classical music with metal. (Into the Pandemonium, 1987)


I know that could be worded better, but I think the basic ideas are there.

 

[Zephyrus]

I can agree with that. Also include the first use of female vocals in metal (To Mega Therion).

 

[zabu of nΩd]

^ Sure thing.

 

[Vilden]

Sunn 0)))
Boris

You mean Earth right?

Thergothon is not the slowest band, but the band who released the first wave of funeral doom into the world (with their Fhtagn nagh Yog-Sothoth ep in 1991).

Certainly the doom genre was changing (hell, Winter had a release in '89, and disembowelment had a release in 90 I think) - but it was Thergothon that led the pack when weaving those fine funeral tapestries.

Don't Forget Dream Death and Paradise Lost. They were certainly very influental to the doomdeath/funeral doom scene.

Also, Godflesh and Amebix both needs to be mentioned in a thread like this.

 

[ohiogrinder]

I don't see any real need to list "fastest" or "slowest" bands (or bands with the "most" of any particular quality), as it's not really a matter of innovation so much as it is winning a contest of absurdity. Plus, you could probably debate among hundreds of bands who appear to be the fastest or slowest.

An exception to that rule would be a band whose tempo was drastically different from any other band at the time (i.e. Motörhead, or perhaps one of the early doom metal bands), and who inspired other bands to pursue similar extremities of the genre.

well Siege and Napalm Death would still count as they were some of the first bands to utilize blast beats.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Don't Forget Dream Death and Paradise Lost. They were certainly very influental to the doomdeath/funeral doom scene.

How so?

Also, Godflesh and Amebix both needs to be mentioned in a thread like this.

Haven't heard 'em. Got any info about them?

well Siege and Napalm Death would still count as they were some of the first bands to utilize blast beats.

Here's what I found:

The original use [of the blast beat] in metal music is generally attributed to Dave 'Grave' Hollingshead (Repulsion), Charlie Benante (Anthrax, SOD), and Mick Harris (Napalm Death).

Grave received most of the credit for the "single footer." Benante showcased the technique by a double-handed blast beat in the track "Milk" on the SOD album Speak English or Die, later played single-handed on the live album Live at Budokan. Harris started using it as a fundamental aspect of Napalm Death's early musical compositions.

There also seem to be several non-metal occurrences of blast beats predating the above cases. It seems kind of silly to be dividing up the credit for a single instrumental technique so much, but I guess I can put the above three on the list.

Any idea whether Charlie Benante used it first in Anthrax or in Stormtroopers of Death?

 

[The Ozzman]

I can agree with that. Also include the first use of female vocals in metal (To Mega Therion).

Wasn't their a female vocalist on Celtic Frost's first EP?

 

[Vilden]

How so?

They were the first! (before Winter and Disembowelment).

Haven't heard 'em. Got any info about them?

Godflesh pretty much created industrial metal and Amebix, well while they aren't really metal they were a big influence to alot of early black and thrash metal bands.

 

[Uncreation]

Please forgive me if I am talking complete and utter nonsense, as I am not really very knowledgable about this sort of thing. But what about Edge of Sanity?

Melodic death metal with 1992's Unorthodox (or perhaps even maybe 1991's Nothing But Death Remains, although probably not), progressive death metal with the song "Enigma" on the aforementioned Unorthodox (or the full-album from 1993, The Spectral Sorrows) and then progressive/epic death metal with 1996's Crimson.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Note: changing the Opeth entry to this:

Opeth
* Combined death metal and progressive rock into a cohesive sound which made death metal more accessible and brought it into the mainstream. (Morningrise, 1996; My Arms, Your Hearse, 1998)


Not sure if I can really credit them for single-handedly bringing death metal into the mainstream, though. Perhaps "were instrumental in ..." would work better.