The great innovators of Metal

[Alter]

Omg srsly.

i foght it strted wid trivum.

I think you are not understanding what my post meant.

1)I was hoping your post was a joke.
2)Thrash has sounded the same since 89;there is modern thrash sound

Make sense now?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Okay, right now I have the following entries up:

Edge of Sanity
* Created the first progressive extreme metal, along with Opeth. (The Spectral Sorrows, 1993)

Opeth
* Created the first progressive extreme metal, along with Edge of Sanity. (Orchid, 1995)


Although it pains me to say this, it looks like I'll have to take Opeth off the list if the above data are correct. I haven't heard any Edge of Sanity, so it would be nice to know what distinguishes the two bands from each other.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Impaled Nazarene
* Created the first industrial black metal albums (1991).

No, they had one industrial black song on Ugra-Karma, that's the only industrial thing they did to my knowledge.

Okay - from my understanding, Venom is a first wave BM band who added elements to what would become the modern BM sound, but never actually achieved the modern sound themselves. That sound was consummated by Bathory, and basically all of the black metal bands from the second wave onward would use all the basic elements of Bathory's 1984-1988 sound. This is why I see Venom as merely a contributor to modern black metal, and Bathory as the first real cornerstone of the genre. Does that sound about right?

A list like this should just include first wave and second wave, which has been done to death elsewhere. So talk about Venom, Bathory, Mercyful Fate and Hellhammer, not Bathory as if they existed in a vacuum.

I changed it to say that Metallica created the first thrash album. Is that acceptable?

You need to include context, Metallica didn't come up with it independently, they were the first of a large scene to get an album to market. Little bullet points like that are misleading, that's all.

Celtic Frost
* Created a style of thrash metal with chaotic, dissonant riffs and occult lyrics which would be a major influence on black and death metal. (Morbid Tales, 1984)
* One of the earliest metal groups to combine classical music with metal. (Into the Pandemonium, 1987)

Might as well change to Celtic Frost/Hellhammer.

Who was the first band to use harsh vocals, as opposed to singing a vocal melody? That's innovation right there. Slayer? Possessed? or even Venom?

To my knowledge, I think Bathory was the first to use fully harsh vocals without any tone to them.

I also think it was Bathory, as Venom and Slayer both had a lot of vocal melodies.

Edge of Sanity
* Created the first progressive extreme metal, along with Opeth. (The Spectral Sorrows, 1993)

Opeth
* Created the first progressive extreme metal, along with Edge of Sanity. (Orchid, 1995)

Cynic? Death? Atheist?

 

[Vitor]

krisiun reinvented the patterns of death metal

 

[Triton]

Bethlehem created "Dark Metal".
Mael Mórdha was the first (I think) to blend Gaelic Irish elements and instruments with doom metal, thus creating "Gaelic Doom metal".

 

[Discovery]

Paradise Lost
* Created the first death/doom album. (Lost Paradise, 1990)

First Death/Doom stuff is probably Asphyx or maybe Autopsy.

 

[The Ozzman]

Is this going to turn into a website or something?

 

[Vilden]

First Death/Doom stuff is probably Asphyx or maybe Autopsy.

Well both are from the same time as Paradise Lost, so Dream Death are still earlier. : p

 

[Slayed Necros]

Yeah, Dream Death's album is the earliest example of Death/Doom that I can think of.

Sempiternal Deathreign's The Spooky Gloom (1989) is another very early example, and it seems their style was particularly influential to the Funeral Doom movement (see 'Devastating Empire Towards Humanity').

 

[Triton]

Was Shroud Of Bereavement the first to combine a lot of neo-classical elements into death/doom metal?

 

[cookiecutter]

krisiun reinvented the patterns of death metal

No

 

[Zephyrus]

No, they had one industrial black song on Ugra-Karma, that's the only industrial thing they did to my knowledge.

I wouldn't credit an experimental song, that had nothing to do with the band's true focus, as being influential enough for the band to receive the same credit as Mysticum for pioneering the whole sub-genre.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Is this going to turn into a website or something?

I guess that could happen if the list became comprehensive or useful enough. Right now we still need a lot more data, and probably some more refinement of the list's format.

Well both are from the same time as Paradise Lost, so Dream Death are still earlier. : p

Yeah, Dream Death's album is the earliest example of Death/Doom that I can think of.

Good to know. I'll put them down.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Okay, so I'm not so sure what to do about listing the first "true" example of a genre's member versus all of the minute contributors to that genre. I'm not necessarily opposed to including the minute contributors (i.e. Impaled Nazarene with Ugra-Karma), but I doubt we're going to be able to figure out where every single bit of influence for a genre comes from (and we still have to decide what to do about non-metal contributors).

The main thing that bothers me about the list so far is that, if you look at it, it's just a bunch of "X band created Y sound", over and over again - when, in reality, they were only adding one or more elements to a pre-existing sound. I would like to have less talk of who created what genre, and more talk of what specific technique a band contributed (i.e. harsh, atonal vocals in the case of Bathory, regular use of blastbeats in the case of Napalm Death/Siege/whatever, etc.).

 

[Zephyrus]

Mysticum added industrial elements to black metal.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

No, they had one industrial black song on Ugra-Karma, that's the only industrial thing they did to my knowledge.

Okay.

You need to include context, Metallica didn't come up with it independently, they were the first of a large scene to get an album to market. Little bullet points like that are misleading, that's all.

Well, of course the ultimate goal of course is to list as many of the contributors to thrash metal as we can, but that can't just happen all at once. I can't make the list 100% accurate right off the bat, but if you want me to reword the Metallica entry (I thought "created the first thrash metal album" was pretty decent), then do tell me how you want it changed.

Might as well change to Celtic Frost/Hellhammer.

Why? Didn't all of those innovations take place under the name "Celtic Frost"?

Cynic? Death? Atheist?

Yeah, I'm getting uncomfortable about the whole "progressive extreme metal" thing in general. I think I'll take the Edge of Sanity and Opeth entries down, and leave all that crap off the list until we can decide what each band actually did that was different from everyone else.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

A list like this should just include first wave and second wave, which has been done to death elsewhere. So talk about Venom, Bathory, Mercyful Fate and Hellhammer, not Bathory as if they existed in a vacuum.

In case you hadn't noticed, the list is a work in progress. I can't just have everything magically appear at once. I'm sure we'll get all the other first-wave bands up there eventually, just sit tight.

 

[Vitor]

No

it wasn't a question

 

[cookiecutter]

I realize that. It was merely an incorrect statement

 

[zabu of nΩd]