The great innovators of Metal

Now that there has been some posts back to the really old stuff, I have a few things I's like to add which I believe are fundamental to heavy metal, according to my early years listening in the late 60's & 70's.

Hendrix (1967) uped the "heavy" but I recall no use of the word "metal". However Cream was extremely heavy with their live jams possibly earlier than Jimi. I still cant pinpoint any truely metal elements and consider the two bands hardrock or heavy blues

Early Zeppelin stepped into a new relmn of heavy guitar powered song writting, much different from Hendrix or Cream, with LZ I & LZ II, both released in 1969. However to me the first LZ song less like heavy blues and closest to the metal sound would be Immigrant Song from III (Oct 1970). Some proof of this might be the younger metal heads I hung out with in the 80's were most impressed with Zep by "The Immigrant Song". For whatever thats worth. As for the folk metal thing, I always felt Pages folk works were simply English style folk songs with a rock twist.

That brings me to Black Sabbath - self titled first release - Feb 1970 (predates Led Zeppelin III - Oct 1970). Now I havent heard "Black Sabbath" in decades but it seems to me riff wise it was still more of the single note blues based stuff like LZ I & II were. Black Sabbath - Paranoid - released Sept 1970 might be a different story. Still there is no denying the darkness of the Sabbath sound on either album.

Now what pisses me off is... Two bands that are always over looked. Yea they werent as dark as Sabbath, nor did they stick to the same vein as closely but they surely must have had some influence on the early honest "Heavy Metal" bands.

Atomic Rooster - second album - Death Walks Behind You - recorded sometime in 1970 released sometime in 1971. The song "Death Walks Behind You" could be the first "Death Metal" lyrics at least. The music was heavy but different from Zep as well as Sabbath and I doubt the younger crowd would appreaciate much of it but I still listen from time to time. Just for shits and giggles heres the lyrics.
Death Walks Behind You
(John DuCann/Vincent Crane)

Death Walks Behind You,... ect.....

Lock The Door,Switch The Light.
You'll Be So Afraid Tonight.
Hide Away From The Bad,
Count The Nine Lives That You Had.

Start To Scream,Shout For Help,
There Is No One By Your Side.
To Forget What Is Done,
Seems So Hard To Carry On.

Luck Is False,That It's Near,
Bring Yourself To Understand,
It's Your Fate,Or What's Cast,
Point a Finger At Yourself.

Death Walks Behind You
,... ect...

Death Walks Behind You is basically a two riff song one is very metalish and dark the other is almost upbeat and more hardrock

heres another

Devil's Answer
(John Cann)

People are looking but they don't know what to do
It's the time of the season for the people like you
Come back tomorrow, show the scars on your face
It's a clue to the answer we all chase
Three, five and seven lift the heaviest load
reach the top of the heaven that's fallen below
Devil may care but you wish for the best
Can't you see there's an answer that lies there
Come all you sinners and keep with the time
can we see all the faces that have fallen behind
Don't make the reason it's a secret for you
There's a clue to the answer we all know
There's no clue to the answer we all know
People are looking but they don't know what to do
It's the time of the season for the people like you
Come back tomorrow, show the scars on your face
It's a clue to the answer we all chase
It's a clue to the answer we all chase


In my opinion there are a few great songs with the "metal sound" on DWBY and I advise any one that can stomach "old hardrock" to check these songs out regardless of method used in finding them (subtle hint)
Death Walks Behind You (check out the dark intro)
Sleeping for Years (wild noisy guitar intro, excellent groove, fantastic drum beat)
Gershatzer (instrumental of great interest for keyboardists and drummers)
Seven Streets (check out the haunting keyboard into, great riff, most excellent drumming but falls apart at the vocals somehow and becomes 60's psyodelic but then has a great jam)
Tommorow Night (was a hardrock pop hit in England) cool song but probably not for metal heads
This is really the only Atomic Rooster album I like, not crazy about other stuff I have heard. They changed their style and members a few times and faded away, should have stayed the path like Sabbath did.

Uriah Heep ! debut - Very 'eavy Very 'umble - released June 1970
Gypsy - very simple basic "metal" riff that got dragged out to insanity but really heavy in its day (only the curious need check this song out, its not that great today but we loved it back then)
Bird of Prey - this one I recommend, first use of their monkish type chants, heavy riffs, high vocal screams, syncropated stop and go, very metalish
second release - Salisbury - Feb 1971 - the title track is a pretty interesting prog rocker but forget that for this "metal" topic, cant remember other songs at this time
third release - Look At Yourself - Oct. 1971 -
Title track - Look At Yourself... if headbangers cant bang their head to that somethings wrong with mine. I say its the epitimy of early "metal pedals" more haunting harmonized monk choir backup vocals
Shadows of Grief - haunting and heavy through and through, primarily one riff, these guys could drag things out but they were excellent at taking one riff to all extreme angles. This is the epitimy of their use of monk chants, check out around 4:20 into the song. Very dark, dreary, basic harmonic minor abuse. The ending is quite "epic" too. Both these songs are pretty fast and may be first hints of "speed metal" - know that these songs predate Deep Purples Machine Head and the song "Highway Star" - recorded in Dec. 71 and released May '72. Uriah Heep could also possibly be the first hint of "Power Metal". They were not dark lyrically but more of the positive "we will over come the evil" kind of thing like modern power metal.
Uriah Heep - somehow musicly, with the use of power chord pedals and occasional duel harmonized guitar themes always made me think the Iron Maiden boys may have listened to alot of Heep when they were young, but I have never read or heard anything that states this. Still I always made a slight connection musicly not lyrically between the two bands.

Sorry for the book guys and especially the "topic master" but I believe these two bands and works mentioned are very important in the development of what became "heavy metal" but all everyone ever talks about is Sabbath this and Sabbath that but these two bands ran parallel in the time frame and used other sounds that also became prominent in heavy metal. In ways they were also heavier than Deep Purple. Maybe not as good of song writters/instrumentalists but some pretty heavy dudes with ideas of thier own.

In their day these were just very different hardrock bands from Hendrix, Zep and Purple but today I call these bands : premetal


Again Im sorry for the taxing long read but considering the pages of "black metal" arguement I think I did a good job... :heh:
 
^ Added.

Plus, I propose this entry:

Deep Purple
* A major influence on speed metal and NWOBHM through their use of galloping rhythms, aggressive vocals, and an adventurous musical tone.

I'm not sure which album all of those elements first appeared on together, though. Perhaps Mathias can point that out for us.

:lol: I bet my previous post throughs a loop into the Deep Purple thing...... :lol: I was a fan of Deep Purple too but unfimilair with much prior to Machine Head which once again was recorded December '71 released May '72. Still my opinion is that Purple showed more blues based hardrock pentatonic type stuff. They are a very old band dating to '68 with the remake of the song "Hush" and "Kentucky Woman" the only really old Purple Im fimiliar with. Great early band especially the Ian Gillan years. Theres no doubt in my mind that the early heavy metal band members listened to lots of JH. LZ, DP, UH and possibly a bit of AR when they were young just like I did and I believe between all these bands early works, nearly all elements of heavy metal can be found, just not as "extreme". Except for that growling shit... :heh:
 
Considering Abhoth were an obscure early Swedish Death Metal band with only a couple of demos to their name - and add the fact that they weren't even remotely innovative - why the fuck are you surprised?

Abhoth were one of the first bands in the Sweden scene so i am pretty sure that they had a big influence on future bands in the scene.

Because Alter enjoys randomly namedropping underground bands in an attempt to appear distinguished and intelligent...

Considering Interpol is my favorite band I dont think that I drop random names to sound intelligent or distinguished. Considering I drop there name a bit to much. I doubt you can catch times that I drop a lot of random bands that are unknown for the sake of being distinguished. Furze being one, and the only reason I got into them is because Blue Wizard was looking into him and I had only heard a but from him.
 
I'm pretty sure that if Abhoth had anything did anything of importance, someone besides you might have heard of them in the 15 years since.

I stand my ground that Abhoth has some amount of importance on the Swed scene just like a few little bands had importance in the Black Metal scene. Just go read some interviews with Fenriz. Is anyone into Abhoth btw?
 
Even if Abhoth was influential, that has nothing to do with innovation, which this thread is asking about...

Ok than you and CC won there.

Well if its innovation than Blut Aus Nord is up there. Maybe there have not been a lot of bands following there foot steps but TWWTG is genre pushing album.
 
Hm...

I'd say early BAN was innovative in the sense that it hugely incorporated clean vocals and lead guitar/solos in epic BM...anyone done that before...I dunno??
 
Hm...

I'd say early BAN was innovative in the sense that it hugely incorporated clean vocals and lead guitar/solos in epic BM...anyone done that before...I dunno??

So TWWTFG is not the most innovative album in there distro. The sound of that album is a mind twisting album. Yea the old albums are good but do not push the black metal genre into a whole another level and place. TWWTFG employed some things that had never been used in black metal. On clean vocals, I think Urfaust did it before them. I am not to sure.
 
TWWTG is great, but I don't know exactly WHAT it innovates...

The normal sound of Black Metal. That album it self takes the sound of Black metal and pushes it into some many sounds. The way the wrote that album in atonealty is already a major innovation. Than add the atmosphere that is added on top of that and the overall song writing. I find one of the few MASTERPIECE records of post-1999 IMO.

I don't think Urfaust did it first considering that their first release was 2004

I could not check M-A. I only listened to Urfasut last year and I have not looked into them much. Thanks though.
 
Sorry for the book guys and especially the "topic master" but I believe these two bands and works mentioned are very important in the development of what became "heavy metal" but all everyone ever talks about is Sabbath this and Sabbath that but these two bands ran parallel in the time frame and used other sounds that also became prominent in heavy metal. In ways they were also heavier than Deep Purple. Maybe not as good of song writters/instrumentalists but some pretty heavy dudes with ideas of thier own.

Well, I don't know a whole lot about Rooster and Heep (though I've heard a few songs by both), so I'm not really in a position to determine what their role was (if any) in contributing to metal. I tried looking for something specific in your post to add as entries to the list, but everything I see is really vague and/or opinion-oriented.

If there are specific contributions by either of those bands that you have in mind, feel free to point those out to me. Since you seem to be the most experienced with those bands, I'll leave it to you for now to make them 'listworthy'.
 
:lol: I bet my previous post throughs a loop into the Deep Purple thing...... :lol: I was a fan of Deep Purple too but unfimilair with much prior to Machine Head which once again was recorded December '71 released May '72. Still my opinion is that Purple showed more blues based hardrock pentatonic type stuff. They are a very old band dating to '68 with the remake of the song "Hush" and "Kentucky Woman" the only really old Purple Im fimiliar with. Great early band especially the Ian Gillan years. Theres no doubt in my mind that the early heavy metal band members listened to lots of JH. LZ, DP, UH and possibly a bit of AR when they were young just like I did and I believe between all these bands early works, nearly all elements of heavy metal can be found, just not as "extreme". Except for that growling shit... :heh:

I think what I said about Deep Purple was pretty accurate. I'm not sure what part of it you think is negated by your discussion of Atomic Rooster and Uriah Heep.

Do you happen to know anything about Steppenwolf? From my understanding, they were a pretty mediocre band aside from their few hits like "Born to Be Wild" -- but that song in particular seems to be the closest thing to the Deep Purple "badass motorcycle adventurer" vibe to come before Deep Purple.
 
Steppenwolf "Live" was a great album but they were rock hardrock with no previews of what became the metal sound.

As for what you say about my points in my post, I say maybe you need to read it a few times. I can pinpoint earlier and definante metal charactoristics in Heep and Rooster that I can Purple. Use of harmonic minor progressions, power chord pedals and gallops, layered monkish (for lack of a better or proper term) background vocals. Maybe tomorrow someone can lead me to an earlier Purple (or other bands) song than Highway Star that had a metal feel but from my early days Heep was heavier than Purple, just less talented and talent is not what this is about. Its about where did these various sounds of metal come from. Zeppelins Immigrant Song predates Highway Star. The older bands were more diverse per recording than most modern metal bands but that doesnt mean they didnt create these styles because they didnt do song after song, album after album using the same formulas. Find yourself a free download of the song "Look at Yourself" and "Shadows of Grief" and whether you like it or not you cant deny its a headbanger and that is the dominate metal groove. Take Zeppelins Heartbreaker, heavy, hard, powerful but can you bang your head to it ? No, Whole Lotta Love? Maybe. Now take Immigrant Song...Yes you can bang your head to that song.

Ill wait for some more input from other old old school guys and do a bit of research after but these songs I mentioned I can pinpoint and it aint opinion, they have heavy metal elements and Im not just talking about distortion or overdriven amplifiers. Im talking about the feel and mood and sound of the music itself. I was into the hardest of the music I could find when I was young and Bowie and Mott the Hoople didnt cut it... lol. Still doesnt mean I heard it all.
 
What in the hell is winter metal?

bullshit trolling

I just like to call them wintermetal since it has a lot of synth with a lot of 3/4 time measures. The melodies seem to have a wintery feel to it to. Faster songs like Winter Madness, Beautiful Death, and Starchild also have a very blizzardy sound to it. Sleeping Stars has a more of a light snowfall sound too. I don't know though, it's just the way i like to see it.
 
TWWTG is great, but I don't know exactly WHAT it innovates...

Exactly, that's why this thread is pointless. Aside from the obvious early stylistic developments, it's too hard to describe the many original creations since then. Blut Aus Nord, Opeth, Gorguts, Morbid Angel, Necrophagist, Arcturus, Agalloch, Emperor (with ATTWAD) etc etc have all made major progressions in metal that are too difficult to encapsulate in absolute terms or in one sentence.