The Language Thread

[Vimana]

What languages do you speak? What languages are you learning? Discuss anything language-related here. This also serves as an outlet so that my long-winded posts about language do not crowd up other threads.

Other than English, I speak pretty good Spanish. I wouldn't say I'm fluent yet, but within a few months in a Spanish-speaking country I'm sure I'd be fluent. I'm planning on heading over to one in January.

Currently I am studying Korean. It's mostly out of interest, and also because I do want to visit South Korea sometime. I'd heard that 55% of the vocabulary is derived from Chinese, but I'm not seeing it so far. The grammar is pretty similar in some respects, like the placing of adverbs. Korean seems to hold on to some of the case mechanics found in related languages like Turkish, Finnish, and Mongolian in the form of putting prepositions at the end of nouns. It was a bit weird at first, but I got used to it. I learned the alphabet in three days. It's that easy. Not everything is pronounced as it's spelled, but it's pretty easy to get used to. There are also some sandhi, but they're really easy.

My list of languages that I may learn in the future are as follows:

Chinese
French
Cantonese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Russian
Latin
Attic Greek
Sanskrit

It's not as daunting as it sounds. I'm pretty good at languages, and five of the ones I mentioned in the list are Indo-European, so I'd have a pretty good edge on pretty much every aspect of them.

 

[sevag00]

I know English, Arabic and Armenian fluently. I can speak and understand Turkish, a bit of French and Italian.
If i have the time and energy, i'm thinking of studying German and Norwegian. Although chances of me studying Norwegian are very slim.

 

[Vimana]

If you know English, Norwegian's pretty easy. I have a book and I picked it up really easily.

How hard was it to learn Turkish? I looked at the grammar and it seemed like a clusterfuck.

 

[Bitencourt29]

Portuguese is my first language. I've studied English and German as well, being german a lot harder to learn.

I'd really like to study stuff like Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian and Czech. Unfortunately I'll probably never get to do that actually. I need more free time...

 

[The Ozzman]

I'm fluent in English and still remember a bit of Spanish. I would like to learn Russian at some point though..

 

[Zephyrus]

English obviously. French is the only other language I can possibly sustain a conversation in, but I read it very well. Reading languages is my forte, not speaking or listening. I can read German but need a dictionary frequently. Italian and Spanish I can handle pretty well but would have to check words here and there. And then of course, I can read Latin at an advanced level and Classical Greek almost as well. The Latin Bible is English to me and the Koine (Greek) Bible is a breeze.

Based on all of this I could possibly get through a paragraph of Portugese and Dutch, and definitely modern Greek.

Hi, I'm a philologist.

 

[sevag00]

If you know English, Norwegian's pretty easy. I have a book and I picked it up really easily.

How hard was it to learn Turkish? I looked at the grammar and it seemed like a clusterfuck.

Well, i've never learned Turkish using a book or at school like i did with English. I've learned it through my father. We used to watch a lot of Turkish movies on tv and he would translate it to me word by word.

 

[Vimana]

Oh, so I bet you bypassed the grinding that goes with learning all of the technical aspects. The only Altaic language I've come across that isn't really complex so far is Korean.

 

[Vimana]

Tagalog is one of the ugliest languages I have ever heard. Maybe I'm just biased because Filipinas in Hong Kong basically yelled to each other on busses there. On Sunday they all crowded central and it sounded like a concert. Even Filipino people I've met admit that they're loud.

 

[arg]

yea it definitely sounds fucking ugly (even i am disgusted by it) when spoken by the lower class which unfortunately makes up the majority of overseas workers

 

[Vimana]

I've heard it spoken by a Filipino that wasn't lower class, and the pronunciation had a hint of a European Spanish accent in it. It wasn't super nasal like what I usually heard.

 

[Vimana]

Le bump.

So in Korean, 이에요 (ieyo) means "to be," but only for equivalence. For example you could say "I am a teacher" using it, but you can't say "that book is green" with it. I find that really interesting. Whenever I learn a new language, I like stumbling upon specificities that my brain has been lumping together because of the language it thinks in. I've always thought of being as a description and as an equivalence as the same thing, since English does not separate based on those two meanings and uses one word for both. Normally, due to growing up hearing Spanish, in my thought process I'd separate being into two categories: static and non-static, since Spanish has one version of the verb for each.

As I'm creating a language, I'm trying to separate subtle differences of meaning into their own words, as to clear up confusion. I'm not going to do this to an annoying degree where there are a shitload of words, but to enough of a degree with the most common verbs so that the language is easier to pick up. With verb stems that can be combined in various ways, tenses more complex than the ones in English can be created. I won't need two verbs for static and non-static being like in Spanish, because I have the instantive stem for something that happens once, and is not a pattern, the habitual for something that happens on a regular basis, and the general for something that generally happens (obviously) that is not necessarily a habit, but, well, a generality.

Some examples of each:
Instantive: I went to the store Monday.
Habitual: I went the store every Monday.
General: I went to this store every Monday.

So far, with more common verbs, I plan on separating to have into two separate words, one for to possess, and the other for to contain. I plan on separating to go into one that specifies movement, and another for happening, doing, etc., like when you ask "how's it going" or "how does that song go?" To be is going to be separated as above, with one specifying equivalence and another specifying description.

Making a language is a tough process because I keep getting more ideas on how to improve it, and then I kind of have to start from scratch, but I think it will pay off in the end in giving me a much clearer thought process and perception of pretty much everything, as well as create a groundwork that makes it easier for me to learn languages, because when I cut down everything to its most basic meanings and understand each, it makes it easier to pick up subtle usage differences in other languages.

 

[TheInsane]

Swedish is my native language and sicne I've lived in Sweden almost my whole life I speak it fluently without problems.

Being Swedish I understand Norwegian just fine since the two are so closely related. I cant speak Norwegian but I can make myself understood and I can understand them.

Danish is also closely related to Swedish and I can read Danish good. Their pronounciation offers me trouble though so I cant understand much spoken Danish exept for a few, in my ears, more clear and clean dialects. I think Danish people in general understan me better than I do them.

I am fluent in English. I have lived in England but I was speaking the language fluently before that. English always came super easy for me.

I have the very basics of German down from studying it at school. I have barely used it since then though so while I can say some of the more basic things and perhaps understand the context of a every day conversation thats as far as it will go. I am pretty sure it would come easy though if I decided to live in Germany for a while.

 

[Draehl]

So I called a woman in Paisley Scotland yesterday at work. A few observations.

1) The obvious. I think I had to wipe a little drool away after that phonecall. The accent is amazing!

2) Look Paisley up on Google maps. Holy fuck I've never seen so many golf courses.

3) I am reminded how awesome their (our?) names are. Aberdeen, Elderslie, Loch Ericht, Lake of Menteith, Caimgorm Mountain.

 

[Vimana]

Those sound like names of Folk/Black Metal bands.

I have the very basics of German down from studying it at school. I have barely used it since then though so while I can say some of the more basic things and perhaps understand the context of a every day conversation thats as far as it will go. I am pretty sure it would come easy though if I decided to live in Germany for a while.

Was German easy to pick up? I'd imagine it would be from a Scandinavian standpoint since they share a mother language. Scandinavian grammar is much simpler, but the roots of all the words remain. One of the only etymological references I have is the split off of the words jeg and ich from the old Norse ek, and, respectively, the accusative forms, meg and mich from mek. Are most words that similar between Swedish and German?

 

[TheInsane]

Was German easy to pick up? I'd imagine it would be from a Scandinavian standpoint since they share a mother language. Scandinavian grammar is much simpler, but the roots of all the words remain. One of the only etymological references I have is the split off of the words jeg and ich from the old Norse ek, and, respectively, the accusative forms, meg and mich from mek. Are most words that similar between Swedish and German?

Alot of words are similar indeed which is porbably why I can still understand some basic German. I wouldnt say most words are similar but many. The grammar is indeed different but probably not so hard if I would have actually put some time into my studies.


On a related note I used to work with people whose native languages varied alot. One evening we were discussing these things and my friend started to say words in Spanish that me (a Swede) and my other friend (an Englishman) were to guess what they meant (neither of us really knows any Spanish). What we found out was basically that I knew way more words and that was probably because I know both Swedish (germanic in origin) and English (which has more latin influences).

I learned so much from this time in my life regarding langauges. I did know that Spanish and Portugese isnt necissarilly that closely related so that they can understand eachother with ease. What I didnt know was that most Spanish speaking friends of mine also understood Italian and vice versa. I never knew the languages were that closely related. Many of my latin friends would have an ok grasp at understanding French as well which I always thought was very alien to most other languages (it seems like it for a Swedish person).

Its only now I have really started getting interested in languages and Id love to learn more.

 

[Vimana]

When you understand the dynamics of sounds in the mouth and their relation to one another, it becomes really easy to see the relation of all the words in Indo-European languages, of which all the languages you mentioned are a part of. The Sanskrit word vrka seems nothing like the Latin equivalent lupus, but if you chain together words from other contemporaries in the family (ancient Greek: lykos, proto-Slavic: vlǔkǔ, old Persian: varka, old Norse: ulf), the similarity becomes obvious.

I personally think for anyone who wants to learn a lot of Indo-European languages, they should start with the ancient ones. For one, they're all related, so when you master one, you've basically taken many steps towards mastering all of the other ones, and once you master all of them, you have a very easy bridge to all of the modern languages of which I can name at least ten.

Languages are so overlooked, in my opinion. They more or less define the boundaries and blueprints of one's thoughts and ability to understand and communicate information. I think a language created with the ability to communicate the most complex and subtle things without being confusing could do a lot for everyone. When I finish my master language, I will probably keep it to myself, or maybe speak it with my children. Then maybe I can see how much their ability to use it affects their lives.

 

[Cronopio]

Aside from my native Swedish (born and raised in and around Stockholm) I read and speak English and German fluently. I also understand most Dutch, although my reading comprehension far outweighs my ability to speak it. As with Spanish, I'm able to converse casually in the language. Back in high school, I had three months of Russian, but I only know the alphabet (I can write my name! Yay!) and basic colloquialisms such as 'my name is', 'how are you?' and 'I'm a doctor. I work in the hospital'.

As TheInsane mentioned above, Norwegian (bokmål), Danish or Swedish are more or less mutually intelligible, provided the speakers talk slowly and enunciate well. To a random Swede, the order of easiness in understanding the other Nordic languages would most probably look like this:

1. Norwegian
2. Danish
3. Icelandic
4. Finnish

 

[TheInsane]

As TheInsane mentioned above, Norwegian (bokmål), Danish or Swedish are more or less mutually intelligible, provided the speakers talk slowly and enunciate well. To a random Swede, the order of easiness in understanding the other Nordic languages would most probably look like this:

1. Norwegian
2. Danish
3. Icelandic
4. Finnish

Most definately. With Norwegian there isnt much problem either in written from or spoken. Danish is understandable to me in written form but sleeldom in spoken form. Icelandic sounds familiar but I can almost never make out what they say. The little I have tried to read is alot harder than Norwegian and Danish.

Finnish is a totally foreign language since it has no common roots with the othr three. But of course a small minority do speak Swedish in Finland as their native language.

 

[Vimana]

I barely know any Norwegian and I could understand bits of what my ex said when she spoke Danish with her parents. The spellings of the words looked way different from their English equivalents, but in my experience the pronunciation was much closer.