the love thread

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

Guess what, if someone is in prison for 20 years... That's 20 years they can't commit another crime.

It's all ready been proven that you cannot rehabilitate rapists/molesters/etc.

If you want I'll show you the statistics of repeat offenders, or better yet look at vermont.

You think PROBATION is reasonable for someone who molests a 6 year old? Vermon is fucked up and is a clear case that shows rehabilitative justice DOES NOT WORK.

If you do the CRIME you do the TIME. It's not arbitrary, its keeping them out of society so they cannot commit the crime, also, its justice to the victims. All of you are looking at the heinous individuals and would rather help them out, but none of you are thinking of the "VICTIMS" who are scarred for life. I'd be fucking pissed off if I found out hypothetically that the person who raped my sister got a year in prison for what he did. And I'm sure as hell I KNOW IF IT WAS YOUR SISTER YOU WOULD BE TO! Don't play these ideological games, be REALISTIC. W


Ask yourself this. Why do you care about the perpetrator more than the victim and their family? In all this where is the sympathy and compassion for them? They deserve justice, and keep those people locked up so they can't do it again.

Oh and to the guy way back who said its more expensive to kill someone than to keep them in jail for life, thats the most asinine thing I've ever heard. How much is a dose of lethal injection? Few thousand? How much is it to feed and clothe someone for life? Do the math.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

If there were more lenient sentencing, people would get the help they need. The legal system doesn't cover every kind of wrongdoing, and if people have the attitude i'm talking about they'll engage in all kinds of wrongful social conduct. Punishment is not enough as a deterrent.

That still doesn't answer the questiong: How does capital punishment prevent people who don't act on violent urges from getting help?

Ask yourself this. Why do you care about the perpetrator more than the victim and their family? In all this where is the sympathy and compassion for them? They deserve justice, and keep those people locked up so they can't do it again.

Rhetoric. Shut up.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

I do somewhat believe in "rehabilitation" if you are talking about say a 19 year old kid who killed somebody because he was in a gang, and now he's a 45 year old who has learned alot from his life experiences

the problem is that it is borderline impossible to determine who is and who is not truly "cured"

I really don't know the answer to this question, I am not really sold on capital punishment. Perhaps the answer is to legalize marijuana so we have less petty criminals in jail and we can have more space for violent offenders?

 

[hibernal_dream]

I do care about the victim, that's why the perpetrator should be punished. But i'm more concerned about potential perpetrators, reducing crime rates and the overall condition of society.

 

[hibernal_dream]

That still doesn't answer the questiong: How does capital punishment prevent people who don't act on violent urges from getting help?

I explained that - if I refrain from murder because i'm scared of death, yet i'm still fucked in the head without knowing it, how am I gonna get help?

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

I do care about the victim, that's why the perpetrator should be punished. But i'm more concerned about potential perpetrators, reducing crime rates and the overall condition of society.

I suppose that's more of an economic question then

reduce (or eliminate) poverty and I think the crime rate goes way down

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

I explained that - if I refrain from murder because i'm scared of death, yet i'm still fucked in the head without knowing it, how am I gonna get help?

How the hell is that not stupid? if someone did not do anything, how is that a problem? If it's capital punishment that is prvented them from doing anything, then I'd say it's pretty effective.

You think it would be better if there was no detterent because then the fucked up individuals would act on their urges anf then get help? That's insane!

 

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

How the hell is that not stupid? if someone did not do anything, how is that a problem? If it's capital punishment that is prvented them from doing anything, then I'd say it's pretty effective.

You think it would be better if there was no detterent because then the fucked up individuals would act on their urges anf then get help? That's insane!

QFT

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

How the hell is that not stupid? if someone did not do anything, how is that a problem? If it's capital punishment that is prvented them from doing anything, then I'd say it's pretty effective.

You think it would be better if there was no detterent because then the fucked up individuals would act on their urges anf then get help? That's insane!

I think he is proposing that the fucked up individuals get help before they commit a crime

then again, I have no idea how the hell we can determine who is "fucked up" and who isn't

 

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

I suppose that's more of an economic question then

reduce (or eliminate) poverty and I think the crime rate goes way down

Yep, we are in agreement AGAIN. Omg thats such a shocker isn't it

 

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

I think he is proposing that the fucked up individuals get help before they commit a crime

Um, how is that any different from them getting help now?

People will "only" get help if they "want" help.

YOU CANNOT HELP SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT IT!

Also, how are you going to read someones mind, knowing that said person "needs help" before they do anything?

This isn't the fucking TOM CRUISE MOVIE (forget the name). ITS REAL LIFE.

 

[hibernal_dream]

How the hell is that not stupid? if someone did not do anything, how is that a problem? If it's capital punishment that is prvented them from doing anything, then I'd say it's pretty effective.

You think it would be better if there was no detterent because then the fucked up individuals would act on their urges anf then get help? That's insane!

Because I don't want people who think it's okay to murder and rape in my neighbourhood! And because of this:

The legal system doesn't cover every kind of wrongdoing, and if people have the attitude i'm talking about they'll engage in all kinds of wrongful social conduct.

Maybe you little fuckers would respond better to a metaphor. You've got termites under your house. Would you rather they spread to the neighbourhood and undermine the whole suburb without anyone knowing, or that they demolish one house so something can actually be done about it?

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Um, how is that any different from them getting help now?

People will "only" get help if they "want" help.

YOU CANNOT HELP SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT IT!

Also, how are you going to read someones mind, knowing that said person "needs help" before they do anything?

This isn't the fucking TOM CRUISE MOVIE (forget the name). ITS REAL LIFE.

this is what I am saying

hibernal's plan makes no sense

 

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

Because I don't want people who think it's okay to murder and rape in my neighbourhood! And because of this:



Maybe you little fuckers would respond better to a metaphor. You've got termites under your house. Would you rather they spread to the neighbourhood and undermine the whole suburb without anyone knowing, or that they demolish one house so something can actually be done about it?

So let me see what your saying.

#1. You want to make it mandatory for people to get "help" that think this, yet do not act upon it. In effect forcing them to think a certain way even though they did nothing wrong. Sounds pretty Fascist to me.

#2. How are you going to know these things, obviously people who think that way do not come out and say it. Are you a mind reader?

#3. Why do you care what they think, if they do not act upon it, then you are in "0" danger.

#4. If said "Fascist" style of punishment "for doing nothing" was introduced, how many people do you think would "undergo" this "help" and how many people do you think would actually "want" to be changed, or think they did anything in the wrong in the first place.

#5. Most crime comes from inpoverished people. If you fix the state of poverty then you drastically reduce crime. You cannot seem to fathom this. Most people commit crime because they have nothing better to do and or they don't give a shit. You think someone who can barely eat, and has no shelter is going to care about morals in any situation?

How do you go about doing this? I don't know, perhaps start fixing the family status in America. Less kids out of wedlock/2Parent homes, would drastically help the situation.

 

[Evil?]

You're a clueless fucking idiot as usual, and I'm not even addressing your fucking "argument."

Victims have no compassion, they're the ones seeking blood. And in case you didn't read my second post, it's not just a rehabilitation program, it's an indefinite prison sentence. You're in prison until you can prove that you can fit into society. You choose how long your sentence is. This "25 years" bullshit makes about as much sense as reciting Hail Mary prayers.

I very much agree with this. The current sentencing system is very silly. I think people forget that the point of prison is to remove dangerous people from society. This is the reason a lot of punishments and sentences do not make sense.

Oh and to the guy way back who said its more expensive to kill someone than to keep them in jail for life, thats the most asinine thing I've ever heard. How much is a dose of lethal injection? Few thousand? How much is it to feed and clothe someone for life? Do the math.

Putting someone to death is more expensive. I suggest you know what you are talking about before you start calling people asinine.

 

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

this is what I am saying

hibernal's plan makes no sense

indeed.

 

[Disarmonia_Mundi]

Putting someone to death is more expensive. I suggest you know what you are talking about before you start calling people asinine.

How do you figure. The cost of a lethal injection is at most 5,000$ AT MOST. The cost of feeding someone for 40 years +, is drastically more expensive.

Even if you calculate feeding the person costs 1$ a day (ROFL)
it would still cost 14,600$ to feed said person in that time. Not to mention all the other things you have to pay for, such as Toilet paper, water for showers for 40 years, etc.

You really have no clue. I think this may be the dumbest comment I've ever seen.

Now if you want to refute said statement^, please tell me the cost of "killing someone" in the main methods. Lethal Injection / Electricity, and then calculate the costs of housing a prisoner for 40+ years.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Because I don't want people who think it's okay to murder and rape in my neighbourhood! And because of this:



Maybe you little fuckers would respond better to a metaphor. You've got termites under your house. Would you rather they spread to the neighbourhood and undermine the whole suburb without anyone knowing, or that they demolish one house so something can actually be done about it?

They don't thimk it's ok! That's why they don't do it! How do you not get this?

You're metaphor makes no sense, because people who are not commiting crimes are not undermining anything or harming anyone. What you are saying is that we should stop spraying bug poinson on our houses because all it does is prevent the termites from destroying the home. They are still out there- not doing anything or causing anyone any trouble, so lets stop spraying the bug poison. That way, we'll know where all the termites are so we can stop them! Brilliant!

You're a nutjob.

 

[hibernal_dream]

So let me see what your saying.

#1. You want to make it mandatory for people to get "help" that think this, yet do not act upon it. In effect forcing them to think a certain way even though they did nothing wrong. Sounds pretty Fascist to me.

It's not forcing! It's called education

#2. How are you going to know these things, obviously people who think that way do not come out and say it. Are you a mind reader?

Know what things?

#3. Why do you care what they think, if they do not act upon it, then you are in "0" danger.

I already said it twice - wanting to commit murder isn't a discrete medical condition. It's a result of a bad education and bad mode of thought, and it permeates to all aspects of social life, whether cutting a queue at the bank or generally being an asshole.

#4. If said "Fascist" style of punishment "for doing nothing" was introduced, how many people do you think would "undergo" this "help" and how many people do you think would actually "want" to be changed, or think they did anything in the wrong in the first place.

N/A

#5. Most crime comes from inpoverished people. If you fix the state of poverty then you drastically reduce crime. You cannot seem to fathom this. Most people commit crime because they have nothing better to do and or they don't give a shit. You think someone who can barely eat, and has no shelter is going to care about morals in any situation?

If I was in that position, i'd appeal to the powers that be, and if that failed, resort to civil disobedience.

How do you go about doing this? I don't know, perhaps start fixing the family status in America. Less kids out of wedlock/2Parent homes, would drastically help the situation.

Leave that to the politicians

 

[hibernal_dream]

They don't thimk it's ok! That's why they don't do it! How do you not get this?

You're metaphor makes no sense, because people who are not commiting crimes are not undermining anything or harming anyone. What you are saying is that we should stop spraying bug poinson on our houses because all it does is prevent the termites from destroying the home. They are still out there- not doing anything or causing anyone any trouble, so lets stop spraying the bug poison. That way, we'll know where all the termites are so we can stop them! Brilliant!

You're a nutjob.

We are all the product of our actions and thoughts. I've got larger concerns than just getting the lowest statistical rate of murder.