Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
Holy freaking goddamn christ on a bicycle Converge were fucking awesome last night. I need to see more shows of that calibre. Unrelenting fury and energy. 
the love thread
- Thread starter UndyingDarkness
- Start date
- Status
The Heartbreak Kid
Afterimage
ThisIsACoolName
Member
Well then you're a paranoid shithead. Society isn't made up a "mindless drones" who simply obey the law because it's there. What you are suggesting- a society where no one ever does anything wrong because they are taught what is rght and wrong- is a complete fucking fantasy (and, again, people are[/B taught the difference between right and wrong).
I tried to come up with some silly metaphor for what you're saying, but I can't because my mind simply cannot conceive something that stupid.
hibernal_dream
A Mind Forever Voyaging
well i can tell you now the only reason i'm refraining from tearing off your testicles is not a law, but the wolfenstein hitler pic in your sig.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
How many times have I said that I haven't proposed any plan or method to determine a true state of rehabilitation? That is not my field. Somebody who knows what they're talking about, an expert, would be far better suited to this. A lot of counseling and psychiatric help would probably be necessary for a lot of people, and a lot of other people will never be rehabilitated. It's not impossible, it's just impractical in the current climate. Obviously this will never happen, but I do believe that this would work in an ideal state. I already said that I'm talking ideally, not pragmatically.
I already addressed this: I don't know the best means of telling when one is truly rehabilitated. And clearly this can never be 100% effective. Which is why I think that repeat offenders should be, unless under extreme circumstances, be kept behind bars for the rest of their lives, because they've proven that rehabilitation methods are ineffective for them.
And if they're in prison for 35 years when they're finally rehabilitated, they can't commit another crime for 35 years. But that's a completely irrelevant argument. The point of a rehabilitation program is to get an individual to a state where they don't want to commit any more crimes because they believe that it's wrong. If they don't want to commit any more crimes because they fear punishment, they're much more likely to overcome that fear than if they believed what they were doing was wrong. It's been proven time and time again that internal reinforcement is much more effective than external. This should be common sense for anyone who's generally familiar with this field of study.
No it hasn't. Sure, a lot of people (maybe most people) would never be able to be properly rehabilitated, but others have been rehabilitated. I'm sure you can find some information online if you actually wanted to realize that you're wrong.
Probation? Who said anything about probation? And if you think the Vermont system is anything like I'm talking about, you're incredibly off the mark, as usual.
Wow, talk about a fucking drone.
Wait, so while the prisoners are spending time in prison under my system, they're not kept from committing crimes? Oh, nevermind, you're just an idiot. Fuck, for all you know the vast majority of inmates will spend a much longer time in prison than they would have under the current system. It depends completely on the individual, not the system, which is the current problem.
About "justice to the victim..." Do you honestly believe that having one do harm to do gives you the right, the authority to harm them back?
We're discussing the criminals because that is what the topic is about, you fucking mental midget. We're talking about the criminal justice system, not the victim's aide rights. We're not "not thinking of the 'VICTIMS," as you say. We're just not talking about them because we're talking about criminals, not victims. Is this really going over your head? If you want to discuss the victims we can do that well, but it's a separate realm of discussion. Also, I highly doubt that a person who raped somebody would only be in prison for a year. There would probably be a minimum sentence in place anyway. This certainly isn't some kind of fucking 12 step program where you follow the guidelines and dance your way out of prison. It's fucking prison. You're in prison.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PERPETRATOR MORE THAN THE VICTIM AND THEIR FAMILY, YOU STUPID SICK FUCK. I never even remotely implied that. What the FUCK is wrong with you? How could you even possibly imply that? Of course the victim is entitled to plenty of rights, but when those rights infringe on the rights of others, that's where the line is drawn.
LOL
Deterrence by capital punishment has proven not to be effective. Look it up, instead of just speaking with authority like you actually know what you're talking about.
The point hibernal_dream was making was NOT that capital punishment is an effective deterrent, but that it's NOT. Just because some sick individual that wants to kill somebody and doesn't because he doesn't want to be put to death doesn't kill somebody at random doesn't mean it's an effective deterrent. Most people don't randomly fucking kill. But put in the right scenario, some people certainly will. And in that situation, the fear of the death penalty is much more overridden than the internal instinct that killing is wrong.
ohiogrinder
New Metal Member
- Mar 15, 2006
- 5,392
- 13
- 0
~Neurotica
perfectly insane
- Mar 27, 2006
- 7,913
- 236
- 63
swizzlenuts
i'm sciencing as fast as i can
The Heartbreak Kid
Afterimage
black blood
A Corpse Without Soul
Disarmonia_Mundi
Member
The problem with you Nec, is that you over-estimate people. For one, its so easy to manipulate your way out of that situation. You completely fail to realise this simple yet widely known fact.
People will only get/seek help if they WANT to be helped. If they don't there is NOTHING you can do. Now, these same people can MANIPULATE and act like they are rehabilitated (which isn't hard), just so they can be released again, and commit their crimes all over. Your system is amazingly impractical and why are you arguing ideologically? That has no relevance of trying to correct the problems in the system right now, and all it leads to is hypothetical crap scenarios that aren't feasible and look like your some Utopian crackpot who believes people are "good" by nature, when if you look back at the human species you can tell that we are far far from that.
Instead you should be looking at WHY they commit the crimes, and overwhelming majority is because they have no other choice (Poverty). By reducing the amount of impoverished people you will drastically cut down on crime. By suddenly instilling them with a sense of morals isn't going to stop them from doing what they did once they are released right back out into which they came from. Your not looking at the base root of the problem.
People will only get/seek help if they WANT to be helped. If they don't there is NOTHING you can do. Now, these same people can MANIPULATE and act like they are rehabilitated (which isn't hard), just so they can be released again, and commit their crimes all over. Your system is amazingly impractical and why are you arguing ideologically? That has no relevance of trying to correct the problems in the system right now, and all it leads to is hypothetical crap scenarios that aren't feasible and look like your some Utopian crackpot who believes people are "good" by nature, when if you look back at the human species you can tell that we are far far from that.
Instead you should be looking at WHY they commit the crimes, and overwhelming majority is because they have no other choice (Poverty). By reducing the amount of impoverished people you will drastically cut down on crime. By suddenly instilling them with a sense of morals isn't going to stop them from doing what they did once they are released right back out into which they came from. Your not looking at the base root of the problem.
Matt
Active Member
Disarmonia_Mundi
Member
Oh and Nec read this, maybe it will ENLIGHTEN you.
http://www.forgottenvictims.org/rep_sexoffenderrehab.php
Excerpt:
"As with any other crime, rehabilitation is always considered. An array of recommended treatments and rehabilitation methods are available in the United States today. Many of these treatments and rehabilitation methods include therapy, group counselling, medications, and chemical castration in extreme cases. Even with the large amount of treatment options, the American Psychological Association is convinced after years of research that the successful treatment and rehabilitation of paedophiles and other types of sexual child molesters is rare and unfortunately for the child molester is a life-long affliction that will never completely go away but may slowly reduce in intensity as the offender ages. (APA, 1997)"
APA = American Pyschological Association.
I think you need to know what your talking about before you say I don't. It's been clearly shown and proven that rehabiliting said people is VERY rare, and in almost all cases cannot be done.
http://www.forgottenvictims.org/rep_sexoffenderrehab.php
Excerpt:
"As with any other crime, rehabilitation is always considered. An array of recommended treatments and rehabilitation methods are available in the United States today. Many of these treatments and rehabilitation methods include therapy, group counselling, medications, and chemical castration in extreme cases. Even with the large amount of treatment options, the American Psychological Association is convinced after years of research that the successful treatment and rehabilitation of paedophiles and other types of sexual child molesters is rare and unfortunately for the child molester is a life-long affliction that will never completely go away but may slowly reduce in intensity as the offender ages. (APA, 1997)"
APA = American Pyschological Association.
I think you need to know what your talking about before you say I don't. It's been clearly shown and proven that rehabiliting said people is VERY rare, and in almost all cases cannot be done.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
First of all, LMAO at reducing impoverished people, I believe what you mean is reducing poverty, and I'm 100% behind that.
Secondly, I'm not speaking "ideologically," I'm speaking in ideal terms, as in I believe this is the criminal justice system that we should aspire to. I never said it was practical in our current climate (in fact I said the exact opposite), so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. This isn't a fucking pipe dream, as you seem to muse. Also, you really use the word fact lightly. It's kind of funny actually, but also really annoying. And I've already said multiple times as well that not only have I never actually proposed any concrete ideas for a rehabilitation program, but also that that should be left to experts of that field. How you can claim that it is "a simple yet widely known fact" that a plan that has never been outlined can be easily manipulated is utterly fucking hilarious, and I think that everyone at this point of reading my post should stop and bask in this moment and have a bit of a laugh at your expense for suggesting something so beautifully moronic. (*pause* ...
) Furthermore, as for the whole viewing people as inherently good crap, I don't know where you pulled that from. I view people as inherently nothing. I believe that there are many people who cannot be rehabilitated, but there are some who can, and those people shouldn't have to suffer because people like you look at child molestation repeat offender statistics and get off on them. Do you know why there are so many repeat offenders? Because they just sit in a prison cell for 15 years waiting to get out, as opposed to actively striving to become better, knowing that they'll never get out of prison until they can effectively prove that they know that what they did was wrong, why it was wrong, and why they should never do it again. This guy will probably be in prison longer under a rehabilitation system than the time-out system that we have in place now.
As for the last bit, I have to agree with you. While the subject at hand hasn't been about how to prevent crime, which is why we haven't addressed it, I do believe you're right that that is what we should be looking at, first and foremost, and that reducing poverty would be a tremendous first step in that direction, so good on you for that.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
Don't condescend me you little fucking schmuck, because the reality is that you don't know what you're talking about 90% of the time and many people have called you out many times already. I know what the fucking APA is, and I know about current rehabilitative methods. I know that successful rehabilitation of pedophiles is rare. Successful rehabilitation of MOST violent criminals is rare. But does that mean that those that CAN be helped shouldn't be helped just because they're in the minority? Read back on my posts and you'll see that I've addressed A NUMBER of fucking times that I'm perfectly aware that successful rehabilitation is rare. I must have said "most people can't be rehabilitated" at least three or four times.
Dazed and Brutal
Yall About to Witness
Ender Rises
Wass sappening?
- Status
Similar threads
