The no digital camera rule.....
- Thread starter Bryant
- Start date
Regor
Regor:1 Cancer:0
Harvester said:
I've got a few suggestions:
1. Metal detector: I was quite shocked to see that there wasn't some sort of walk-thru or wand device at the show. Then again, I live in Detroit. But seriously, 'bootleggers' with a digicam ban will try to hide them in their person, so a metal detector would help that situation.
2. List of 'permissible' cameras: Most cameras nowadays have 'video' features, so making a list of all banned cameras that have video features would be long, but making a list of digicams that do NOT offer video or offer short video clips (i.e. <30sec clips) would be easy enough to do. All companies prominently display their names and model numbers on their cameras. A list could be posted prior to the event, and at the doorway of the event. your cam isn't on the list, you don't get it in.
3. In conjunction with the above (in order to 'sweeten' the deal for Glenn) would be to add a 'camera fee' to anyone who wanted to use 'permitted' digital cams. Helps defray some costs (like the metal detectors).
Just trying to help.
I don't know what those bands are worried about. I think I've never seen a bootleg video that was of decent quality; allways 1 camera angle, mostly bad sound, moving and shaking pictures etc...Sounds to me like childish Metallica-behaviour...Bands should realise there allways will be a fan-circuit of bootlegs, allways was, allways will be. Bands should not fight it but use it in their own advantage and view the promotional side it brings for them (more people getting to know them and buying official CD's and DVD's and giving real fans a chance to have some extra free material). If the bands see a bootleg for sale somewhere, easy...go to court and win a shitload of money !! Bootlegs are ment to be spread free among fans.
That said I think it's a bit an easy step to ban Bryant. If he says "Fuck you", you better had answered in a funny way, it would have lightened up a thread like this and opened a more friendly discussion about the stuff. If you can't take a "fuck you" in your "own house"...well, pretty pathetic to me...
Bryant has allways been the biggest PP promo guy on several websites, and made some of us Europeans to actually coming to PP in 2006 !! The digital ban won't stop us from coming but I think it's pretty stupid. I vote for digitals in stead of Blind Guardian, there are much better bands around that won't care about digits...
That said I think it's a bit an easy step to ban Bryant. If he says "Fuck you", you better had answered in a funny way, it would have lightened up a thread like this and opened a more friendly discussion about the stuff. If you can't take a "fuck you" in your "own house"...well, pretty pathetic to me...
Bryant has allways been the biggest PP promo guy on several websites, and made some of us Europeans to actually coming to PP in 2006 !! The digital ban won't stop us from coming but I think it's pretty stupid. I vote for digitals in stead of Blind Guardian, there are much better bands around that won't care about digits...
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Barking Pumpkin said:
Abject bullshit. People shouldn't expect to be able to use cameras at any show. Cameras -- ANY cameras -- are a no-go at most venues nowadays. Having cameras at ProgPower has been a rare privilege -- not a right -- and it's Glenn's prerogative to take that privilege away.
I'd like to make one observation, though. Unless I missed it, there were no signs at the venue entrance announcing that videotaping was verboten. Sure, WE all knew it here, but not every PP attendee hangs out here, or at PM:X, or on other boards where the issue is often discussed.
Know how many pics I took of bands this year at PP6? ZERO!
Goes to show you how much this new restriction bothers me. Hehe.
I will sorta miss getting some pics with band members who are freely walking around. Not really a big deal though.
Gimme some kick ass music, and Im happy.
Goes to show you how much this new restriction bothers me. Hehe.
I will sorta miss getting some pics with band members who are freely walking around. Not really a big deal though.
Gimme some kick ass music, and Im happy.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Some thoughts regarding possible solutions....
1. Enforce the digital camera ban in the venue itself (i.e., at the doors where tickets are checked), but not in Vinyl, where the CD dealers are. I was a bit surprised that Vinyl was included in the 'no videotaping' rule, BTW, since during PP there were no signs proclaiming otherwise there and of course, no ticket to purchase for entry into Vinyl. Anyone in Atlanta was free to shop there.
2. Someone mentioned a "camera fee." Not a bad idea, especially since ProgPower is long overdue for some differentiation when it comes to laminates. Allow members of the press, trusted folks, maybe even band sponsors
to purchase a press pass, good for a pre-specified digital camera that either doesn't allow videotaping...or the owner is on the honor system.
3. In a previous thread it was observed that digital cameras that are SLRs -- with detachable lenses, i.e., the 'professional' types -- cannot take video. Maybe you could allow them? This wouldn't help me, but there are some excellent photogs out there with really good equipment, whose pics benefit the show every year, who ought to be able to work their magic with cameras that are physically incapable of shooting video and which are fairly easy to spot.
4. Sell disposable cameras at the event. Seriously.
1. Enforce the digital camera ban in the venue itself (i.e., at the doors where tickets are checked), but not in Vinyl, where the CD dealers are. I was a bit surprised that Vinyl was included in the 'no videotaping' rule, BTW, since during PP there were no signs proclaiming otherwise there and of course, no ticket to purchase for entry into Vinyl. Anyone in Atlanta was free to shop there.
2. Someone mentioned a "camera fee." Not a bad idea, especially since ProgPower is long overdue for some differentiation when it comes to laminates. Allow members of the press, trusted folks, maybe even band sponsors
to purchase a press pass, good for a pre-specified digital camera that either doesn't allow videotaping...or the owner is on the honor system.3. In a previous thread it was observed that digital cameras that are SLRs -- with detachable lenses, i.e., the 'professional' types -- cannot take video. Maybe you could allow them? This wouldn't help me, but there are some excellent photogs out there with really good equipment, whose pics benefit the show every year, who ought to be able to work their magic with cameras that are physically incapable of shooting video and which are fairly easy to spot.
4. Sell disposable cameras at the event. Seriously.
rockyracoon
...
Barking Pumpkin said:
First of all, I'm wondering where you get the idea that DT supports bootleggers??? If you join the DT fanclub, and not only receive, but also read the DT fanzine when it comes in the mail, it shows a list of bootlegs that are out there, and it talks a bit about them. It also SPECIFICALLY sites that they are not supported by DT, and are illegal!!! So quit using that in your responses.
And here's an idea BP. You're so smart and musically educated. Then you go write the next Odyssey, or Perfect Element, or Recreation Day, or Remedy Lane, or Flow, or whatever. Then you can do all the bitching you want about what people should/shouldnt be able to do with YOUR MUSIC! Last I checked, you do nothing to enhance anyone's PP experience. You don't sell tickets, and you arent a draw, and people dont pay to see you there. You are just one person who the entire festival can survive without.
So until you are putting out quality music, I suggest you stop blaming bands for having ANY point of view regarding bootlegging or the material they work so hard to give us.
Harvester
The Promoter
carnut said:
Why should I answer it in a funny way? I don't know Bryant personally nor do I see the humor in his original post. I don't keep up with his posts on a regular basis to know his "humor." From an objective standpoint, please point out the joke I missed? As I said in an earlier post, if he would have just left out the "fuck you" this would have been just another thread to me with serious discussion. No problem.
I don't mind criticism at all. I just demand respect in my house because I work too hard all year to put up with any shit. I don't deserve that as I don't go around personally insulting my ticketbuyers either. He is over on the Tad Morse forum giving me hell. That's fine. He is free to call me every name in the book on any other forum and I will accept it...but not here. Just because he has supported me in the past does not mean that I will accept personal insults because he is not happy with one of the rules I had to institute to protect the festival.
That said, I am considering a "digital camera fee" as others (including Bryant) have suggested. The money generated would simply pay for the additional security agent monitoring the seperate line. Of course, if I still have problems with some of the bands, I would have to kill the idea.
Glenn H.
Bands are full of prima-donnas. It doesn't matter how big or small they are. They have egos. It's a necessary quality for standing on a stage in front of people. Your basic been together for two years local band who packs in a whole 15 friends at their shows and have sold 25 discs in their entire career is likely to make the same kinds of demands.Barking Pumpkin said:
At one of the early Powermads, I went up to a totally unknown band after their show to buy their disc. They opened it up and signed it for me. In my head, I was thinking - dude you ain't at the autograph stage just yet.
At my first ProgPower I stayed at the Granada. I went back to my room during the afternoon and some big dumbass bushy haired bassist in boxer shorts was blocking my door. I had no idea who he was. He thought I was some kind of groupie. He gave me this whole oh you are here to worship me. I just said excuse me. He said - Hi, I'm Randy Coven. I said Hi, I'm Joe-× and you're blocking the door to my room - excuse me. I think he was emotionally devasted by the whole thing, and I didn't even tell him that I thought the CPR disc was totally boring except for a couple of Pitrelli moments.
Not everybody has an ego. One very early morning walking into work downtown, I nearly ran over Ozzy outside his hotel. I crashed right into him and grabbed him before he fell. He looked scared to death. Maybe it was the lack of drugs. I apologized and wished him luck for that night's show. He asked if I was going. I said - no, I have to mow my grass. He laughed. He didn't seem to have an ego, but it's possible that he just hadn't put it on yet.
I wouldn't want to work the bands and their managers. I don't envy Glenn sitting in the green room picking all the brown m&ms out of the bowl.
Joe
edgeofthorns
24 Hours Ago...
Harvester said:
Glenn, I was simply trying to make a suggestion to you as opposed to just bitching about it and not actually giving your problem any thought. I'm assuming you paid the planted people this past festival, so I assumed that you'd be willing to pay a couple of experts.
The reason I made the suggestion to begin with was that you seem willing to consider other options and ideas.
My low cost suggestion to you is to ban cameras all together, then start tossing asses out the doors when people don't abide by the rules. Basically, the bottom line is, if a fan likes progpower music well enough, then he/she will buy the tickets regardless if you allow cameras or not.
This past Saturday night I attended a TSO show in Johnson City, TN. I took a couple of shots of Al Pitrelli, because I'm a Sava addict! A young man walked up to me and told me if I took one more pic then he'd take my camera away from me. Nowhere on the ticket did it say no cameras allowed. Yet, I chose not to take anymore pics, because I wanted to enjoy the rest of the show. My point being, I'd go to my favorite band's shows wheather picture taking is allowed or not.
The final decision is in your hands. All we can do is offer up suggestions based on our limited knowledge of your festival.
Barking Pumpkin
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rockyracoon said:
http://www.dreamtheater.net/bb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=50
Edit: I guess you can't see it if you don't have an account at their forum, but.....they have a "Dream Theater Bootlegs" board on their forums, that allows for the sharing of non-copyrighted Dream Theater and sideproject bootlegs.
I'm not in the fanclub.......but maybe these are the bootlegs you were talking about? They request specific shows not to be shared, usually when they're releasing the show, and since they allow it otherwise as far as I know, fans are more respective of that.
www.dreamtheater.net said:
The Fiddler
Just Do It.
carnut said:
And that's a big reason why band's don't like bootlegging - the video is a very poor presentation of their performance and they have absolutely no say in how it's done. They don't wan't people making judgements about the band from a parasite's bootleg. It's about quality control and maintaing a professional image/presentation.
The Fiddler
Just Do It.
Regor said:
Let's just have an all-nude festival where the only thing allowed in is a digital or film camera. Leave your clothes at the hotel. That way no metal detector would be needed and the banned cameras would be next to impossible to conceal in the venue unless someone sticks it between their fat ass and moons the band all night to get the video. Then it would be pretty obvious that something is going "down".
However, if the video camera is concealed between a nice big pair of boobies and the lady stands facing the stage with her hands cupped around her boobs all night to hold the camera in place, the bands might actually allow her to take the video if she's allowed in the first few rows. She might even get an invite backstage.
Barking Pumpkin
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Yes, Glenn gives attendees the privilege for digital cameras, and can take it away if he deems it necessary, and bands have the right to be against taping (no matter how much I disagree with it ).
But......has Glenn said anything about the reports people on the forum gave about calling security on the taper and have security not care or give them a "warning?" That's definitely not the way I would have expected it to go down. And what Pellaz mentioned about the signs, if he's not seeing them being a veteran, certainly other people aren't seeing them. If those things were actually the case......not saying they necessarily were, I haven't seen Glenn say anything about it. But if those things were the case, wouldn't the next step be to tighten up security and make sure that kind of stuff doesn't happen........and then after that ban digital cameras if still necessary?
).But......has Glenn said anything about the reports people on the forum gave about calling security on the taper and have security not care or give them a "warning?" That's definitely not the way I would have expected it to go down. And what Pellaz mentioned about the signs, if he's not seeing them being a veteran, certainly other people aren't seeing them. If those things were actually the case......not saying they necessarily were, I haven't seen Glenn say anything about it. But if those things were the case, wouldn't the next step be to tighten up security and make sure that kind of stuff doesn't happen........and then after that ban digital cameras if still necessary?
Harvester
The Promoter
This past PP was mine and my fiancees first. We own and run a Metal related website www.metalfury.com (shameless plug there...haha!) We have taken LOTS of pics at many different shows and for the majority of them, we needed a photo pass. We always have to go through the bands label/management/promoter etc. to get a pass. There are very few shows out there where you can just bring a camera in and start taking pics...that's just the way it works. We had a digital camera at PP and took some pics but just because it isn't allowed next yr. does that mean we'll not be there??? Hell yes we'll be there! We thought it was a great time and next yr we'll just bring a 35 mm camera, no big deal!
Barking Pumpkin
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Barking Pumpkin
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Alright, well I'm done here. Bottom line is if Glenn says he has to ban digital cameras to get the bands everyone wants, then that's the way it is, I can definitely live with it. They have the right to be as whiny as they want about their music if that's their perogative. I do hope that if possible some compromise will be reached for the sake of people like Bryant, who feel really strongly about it.
I do hope that if possible some compromise will be reached for the sake of people like Bryant, who feel really strongly about it.
booB
Señor Member
I think Prog-Power is more than just the average $25 concert. It's not just any hoodlums who attend.
yeah, we're a very specific bunch of hoodlums.
yeah, we're a very specific bunch of hoodlums.
edgeofthorns said:This past Saturday night I attended a TSO show in Johnson City, TN. I took a couple of shots of Al Pitrelli, because I'm a Sava addict! A young man walked up to me and told me if I took one more pic then he'd take my camera away from me. Nowhere on the ticket did it say no cameras allowed. Yet, I chose not to take anymore pics, because I wanted to enjoy the rest of the show. My point being, I'd go to my favorite band's shows wheather picture taking is allowed or not.
...last year we saw TSO and i didn't know that cameras were not allowed...i brought my disposable one so i could take pix with jeff and chris after the show because i had not seen them in awhile...while waiting in line afterwards, i was snapping pix of the guys sitting at the autograph tables and they smiled back...the security guards were standing there and letting me take the pix...no one said anything to me about it and one of the guards was nice enough about me going behind the table to take a pic with jeff...i was wondering why no one else had been taking any pix....
...jeff and chris are sweeties...
...this year, they are playing another venue (grrrrrrrrrrr) and i can't bring my camera because there are metal detectors at the rbc center (another grrrr)...but as long as i get to see them and say hi and maybe get a hug...i will be very happy...
