The no digital camera rule.....

[MetalRose]

I've tried to stay out of this more or less.

But I did buy a Digital Camera just for PPVI. At PPV I had a regular camera. I can honestly say, hands down my pictures from PPV were MUCH better. With the execption of the "nose bleed" sections. I went and bought a $10 camera from Target, a ton of 800 speed film (the one that works BEST with high action low lights, try it). MY only issue was having to change over rolls.

I did keep my 35mm camera, just in case. And before I headed to PPVI, I sent Glenn an email and asked him about my digital camera. I told him flat out that it has the capabilities to record, but I had no intentions to record anything. I also personally offered my camera up to random inspections and touched base with Glenn a couple times over the weekend to see if he wanted to check it.

It does kind of suck that I won't be able to use my digital camera out there, BUT other than the cost of having to develop the film, I prefer the quality of images in the 35mm.

In all honesty, I'll most likely still bring my digital camera for the AFTER PARTIES only. It will never see the inside of the venue again.

-Metal

 

[longshot9]

How will digital cameras be defined? Because my brother has a nice 35mm slr camera that has an LCD on it. Makes it look like a digital camera but it uses film.

Guess there's always my old Canon Rebel or my even older Canon AE-1 but that has no flash.

Do you know what camera he has specifically? I was going to get a nice Digital SLR this year but bailed on it cause of the new rule. The only thing I enjoy about having a digital camera at PP is to be able to hoist it high in the air and look at the LCD to line up the shot. Can't do that with a regular 35mm. I've briefly searched for a 35mm wiith a LCD but haven't found one yet.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I'm going to check at this moment if cameras are allowed to PPUK. if not i'll be very disappointed, even moreso as a VIP pass...

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

I think this has to be the fastest growing thread ever on ultimate metal I mean really 5 pages in a fricking 24 hours. Either way I think at least press should be allowed (i.e. me or anyone else that actually works for an online magazine or printed). Though I also think that the camera fee would be a good idea.

 

[Joe-×]

Either way I think at least press should be allowed (i.e. me or anyone else that actually works for an online magazine or printed

That's a great idea.

Joe

COMING SOON! - Joe-×'s Fabulous Webzine of All The News and Reviews of ProgPowerish Music That Is Fit to Print, but Isn't Printed!

(yes. this is sarcasm.)

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

Yeah Joe-X I know you were joking as stated, but they can vouch that the website or whatever is valid then should they be given the pass. For instance Metal Temple got 70000 unique visitors last month.

 

[Beholder]

digital camaras are banned in the pre- party too ?

The Pre-Party will have the same set of rules on digital cameras as the "Main" show.

As for my take on this, yes it sucks if DC's are banned. But it is a necessary evil. Like many others have already stated, DC's or any photagraphy for that matter, are normally not allowed in venues unless you have a pre-arranged "photo pass". This was a gift that we had, and didn't even realize it. It just hurts a bit more for a few people because it was something that we always had, not a luxury that was given to us. Glenn will do what he has to do to protect the security and integrity of the festival. And he has my full support. I'm sure I can speak for the rest of the crew in that regard also.

Plus I was tired of being on "Bootleg Duty" anyway. And to the comment made that security was lax on the issue, there were a couple of Earthlink Security guys who were VERY sharp and on the ball spotting the offenders. I was talking to people non-stop during the event after they were spotted by the staff.

Here's to hoping for a solution to make everyone happy.

Shane

 

[jkohn]

While I understand the concerns about bootlegging, I too am going to have to consider whether it's worth keeping my Gold Badge with this ban in place. In addition to being a metalhead I'm also a bigtime photography hobbyist, and the chance to combine both in one event is part of what makes PP so awesome for me. That's not to say I won't still go for years when the lineup kicks ass, but I'm not so sure I'll still be willing to pay for a gold badge without even knowing what bands are goign to be there.

At the very least, I would ask to you reconsider lumping in Digital SLR's with the digital point-n-shoots, because SLR's cannot shoot video regardless of whether they're digital or not. Now you might not want to have to worry about the security guys figuring out which cameras are allowed in the door or not, but there's a real simple test for this. If the lens can be taken off the camera body, then it's an SLR and does not have video capability, plain and simple. My camera poses no bootlegging threat whatsoever (unlike many of the cell phones that will probably make it through no matter how vigilant you are).

 

[longshot9]

I would like to 2nd jkohn's recommendation, a digital SLR is what I was going to purchase for progpower. Would be nice for sure.

 

[Harvester]

but there's a real simple test for this. If the lens can be taken off the camera body, then it's an SLR and does not have video capability, plain and simple. .

Thanks for the note. What do you think of the additional digital camera fee to pay for someone checking the cameras along with some metal detectors? Say $5 each day? A seperate line (slower) for the checking? The money would also go towards offical agents standing *inside* the venue specifcially to catch bootleggers (in addition to the regular spies).

I want everyone to understand that I am on your side...to a certain extent. I busted over 20 bootleggers last year. Four years ago, I caught 3. I don't mean a few minutes worth of clips, but *complete* recordings. For everyone that I caught, I'm sure another got away. This all may be moot as I do not have signed contracts in place yet. However, I'm willing to go to bat provided you give me some realistic options.

I want everyone else to note that a serious discussion with pros/cons is able to take place and possibly effect change without saying "fuck you."

Glenn H.

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

Fucking you (close but exactly fuck you, lol) have a great idea for the $5 a day thing. Or how about I pay $10 extra and you will actually sing Hunting High And Low with me this time after the turn down donig Strato's set, LMAO!!

 

[jkohn]

Thanks for the note. What do you think of the additional digital camera fee to pay for someone checking the cameras along with some metal detectors? Say $5 each day? A seperate line (slower) for the checking? The money would also go towards offical agents standing *inside* the venue specifcially to catch bootleggers (in addition to the regular spies).

Speaking for myself I would gladly pay an extra $5/day and wait in a slower line to be able to bring my digital SLR.

I want everyone to understand that I am on your side...to a certain extent. I busted over 20 bootleggers last year. Four years ago, I caught 3. I don't mean a few minutes worth of clips, but *complete* recordings. For everyone that I caught, I'm sure another got away. This all may be moot as I do not have signed contracts in place yet. However, I'm willing to go to bat provided you give me some realistic options.

I want everyone else to note that a serious discussion with pros/cons is able to take place and possibly effect change without saying "fuck you."

Glenn H.

I do appreciate your willingness to discuss the issue. I was a bit discouraged at the first thread you started shortly after the event when you didn't seem particularly interested discussing it. Of course I understand you were pissed at the bootlegging situation then. I also realize you have to consider the interests of not only the fans but also the bands and the event itself, and I also realize that photography is a perk that not many other events allow (which is why I'm OK with paying a camera fee if that's what it takes). Glad to see you're considering all sides of the issue, and I hope something can be worked out that makes (most) everybody happy.

 

[Regor]

Glenn, I have a question about digicams. What definition of 'video-capability' would you consider 'non-allowable' versus 'ok'. What I mean by this is, as I stated, I have a digicam that has the capability of recording video, but it's limited to <30sec of data each time. IMO, this is hardly bootleg-able video capture. I've seen cameras that can just plain record non-stop, which IMO would be considered 'non-allowable'.

How do you feel about this? ANY video capability is non-allowable? It would not be hard to distinguish which cameras can/cannot capture long videos... the guy checking the camera would only have to look for a movie camera picture on the digicam, turn it on and start it. If it goes >30sec/1min, the camera is not allowed. If the camera stops recording, than it's no big deal.

What do you think of that?

 

[jkohn]

BTW if anybody out there affiliated with a print/online publication would be interested in having a photographer at next year's PP and would be able to help me get a press pass, PM me. You can see my pics from this year's event here

 

[Harvester]

If it goes >30sec/1min, the camera is not allowed. If the camera stops recording, than it's no big deal.

What do you think of that?

In theory, it's a nice idea. In reality, it's going to make the camera line really long for cameras as I will not allow people in any earlier. Check for SRLs would be much quicker. However, I will not rule anything out yet including a complete ban. Let me get the roster done and then I will turn my attention to the problem once again.

Btw, if any of you wish to pass this info on to Bryant (if he is not lurking), feel free to. I have no personal vendetta against the guy. I'm not asking for asskissing or anything like that. A simple apology for the "fuck you" and understanding that I will not tolerate it in the future will suffice.

Glenn H.

 

[urinalcakemix]

Check for SRLs would be much quicker.

Glenn H.

That would be SLR mr. Harveston =O. Single Lens Reflex, if my photography class this past winter serves me correctly.

 

[Joe-×]

My official position on the subject...

I do not enjoy taking pictures. At all. It must be a genetic thing because I've only been able to uncover about a grand total of 15 photos (not counting official school portraits or any of those many press photos for being nerd of the year) of me prior to meeting my compulsive shutterbug wife. If it were up to me, all the photos of our kids would fit into a regular business size envelope. It wasn't up to me, so we have approximately 80 pounds of photos and video tapes. I wish this were an exaggeration, but it is not.

I took a camera to PPII. I took zero pictures of Atlanta or the show. I never took the thing out of the bag all weekend.

I took our new digital camera to PPIV. My wife attended with me. She took about 30 pictures - about 20 were of bands. You could actually see something on about 4 of them. When we returned that year, she bought a big external flash for the camera "for next time."

I took it to PPV. The wife did not go with me. I took exactly one picture all weekend - it was of about heavy metal nerds throwing the horns. The big flash worked great for that.

I took it to PPVI. The wife went again. I told her to do all the picture crap. I wanted nothing to do with the damned thing. She said that she would take a couple of pictures of each band. Early on (in a confusing decision that ran contrary to my natural fuckheadery), I agreed to take pictures for someone else. We shot like mad all weekend. I was even stupid enough to go to one of those asinine autograph sessions. I hoped to leave the camera behind at the hotel when the wife went to bed early - she would have none of that. I hope to leave the camera behind with the wife for those bands whose appeal to my musical gayness required my presence on the floor. I didn't get away with that either. The big flash worked great for me. I'm sure the bands were tired of it by the end of the weekend. The photos from the nosebleed section showed that the flash illuminated the entire venue. I returned from PPVI and did some minimal processing to send the pictures off to the someone else. I haven't looked at them since.

Taking pictures is not my thing. I would like my visual recollection of events to be restricted to mental imagery. The brain has a way of remembering things better than reality - I don't mean better in terms of accuracy - I mean better in terms of the positive spin it puts on things subconsciously.

I don't go to metal shows to take pictures. It isn't fun for me. It is apparently fun for others, but I'm actually pleased by the camera ban. Although my personal biases play a large part in this, I did feel, when looking down from the cheap seats at the floor during the sets, that the fans were "doing it wrong" with all those damned LCD screens. It was completely non-metal - especially the cell-phone dorks. I have referred the matter to the Elders of the Supreme Metal Council.

Joe

 

[lady_space]

Let's just have an all-nude festival where the only thing allowed in is a digital or film camera. Leave your clothes at the hotel. That way no metal detector would be needed and the banned cameras would be next to impossible to conceal in the venue unless someone sticks it between their fat ass and moons the band all night to get the video. Then it would be pretty obvious that something is going "down".

However, if the video camera is concealed between a nice big pair of boobies and the lady stands facing the stage with her hands cupped around her boobs all night to hold the camera in place, the bands might actually allow her to take the video if she's allowed in the first few rows. She might even get an invite backstage.

That's a very frightening idea (and a horrible visual--thanks). But it could help singles hook up, I guess.
Besides, it'd take a hell of a lot of tape to get a camera to sit between my boobs.

What do you think of the additional digital camera fee to pay for someone checking the cameras along with some metal detectors? Say $5 each day? A seperate line (slower) for the checking? The money would also go towards offical agents standing *inside* the venue specifcially to catch bootleggers (in addition to the regular spies).

I haven't got a digital SLR (altho I've considered purchasing one), so weigh this as you will... but if I did, this would be fine with me. I LOVE taking pics at PP and that seems a small price to pay. That said, I imagine I'll be sticking with my old 35 mm at 7.

Shaye

 

[Angrafan]

Then you have never spent a full year planning all the details for an international music festival as Glenn has done the last six years just to see some bastard cash in on your hard work.

Same thing for the bands. They do all the work over the years to get to the point where they play big gigs only to have some fucking parasite videotape their concert and sell it with no reimbursement to the band.

Telling Glenn and the bands to just give up on catching bootleggers because you can't catch them all is like telling the police to ignore all the bank alarms in town because there will always be a few crooks who escape with the money...therefore, why even bother trying to catch the other 95% who would have been caught. After all, it's probably not your hard-earned money that they stole anyways.

CONCERT bootlegs do not affect the bands finances almost at all.. Illegal downloding of actual CDs is the real problem.. Live bootlegs? Come on...

 

[MetalRose]

Bands are full of prima-donnas. It doesn't matter how big or small they are. They have egos. It's a necessary quality for standing on a stage in front of people. Your basic been together for two years local band who packs in a whole 15 friends at their shows and have sold 25 discs in their entire career is likely to make the same kinds of demands.

At one of the early Powermads, I went up to a totally unknown band after their show to buy their disc. They opened it up and signed it for me. In my head, I was thinking - dude you ain't at the autograph stage just yet.

At my first ProgPower I stayed at the Granada. I went back to my room during the afternoon and some big dumbass bushy haired bassist in boxer shorts was blocking my door. I had no idea who he was. He thought I was some kind of groupie. He gave me this whole oh you are here to worship me. I just said excuse me. He said - Hi, I'm Randy Coven. I said Hi, I'm Joe-× and you're blocking the door to my room - excuse me. I think he was emotionally devasted by the whole thing, and I didn't even tell him that I thought the CPR disc was totally boring except for a couple of Pitrelli moments.

Not everybody has an ego. One very early morning walking into work downtown, I nearly ran over Ozzy outside his hotel. I crashed right into him and grabbed him before he fell. He looked scared to death. Maybe it was the lack of drugs. I apologized and wished him luck for that night's show. He asked if I was going. I said - no, I have to mow my grass. He laughed. He didn't seem to have an ego, but it's possible that he just hadn't put it on yet.

I wouldn't want to work the bands and their managers. I don't envy Glenn sitting in the green room picking all the brown m&ms out of the bowl.

Joe

That's great!

It's funny how those who get to the bigger stages ONCE have the ego the size of Texas, but for those doing it as a regular job, we'll they're just as nice as they come.

Of course there are exceptions to that... But I've found the same thing to be true. The smaller you are, the bigger ego you have.

-MEtal