Metal head87
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Maybe they have weapon dealers on the NYSE (sorry if that offends anyone, but I just couldn't help myself)
The politics thread
- Thread starter paradoxile
- Start date
In that case I agree with you Imrama
In Israel we don't have such a problem...guns are accessible to everyone because practicly everyone serves in the army. and If you want you can make a license for a handgun and carry it for your safety after the army...the difference is ammo is not easily accessible here plus we don't have any hunting sports...small country and every park here is a natural reserve so no hunting allowed
In Israel we don't have such a problem...guns are accessible to everyone because practicly everyone serves in the army. and If you want you can make a license for a handgun and carry it for your safety after the army...the difference is ammo is not easily accessible here plus we don't have any hunting sports...small country and every park here is a natural reserve so no hunting allowed
LANTHWICK
Member
helo guys, its been a while , a long one , hoep everythings cool around, .. as for this thread i read nothing of ur posts , i just wana check on my friends who live at north , hope ur ok guys , alive at least.
i used to live in lebanon , till this war started and left straight to the states for good..it's to bad things turn this way , but all i can say is a quote "peace,another sign that lies" , we pray for peace .. til next time hold on to ur boots and lives hopefuly it ll end soon .
i used to live in lebanon , till this war started and left straight to the states for good..it's to bad things turn this way , but all i can say is a quote "peace,another sign that lies" , we pray for peace .. til next time hold on to ur boots and lives hopefuly it ll end soon .
trentdk
Member
Apparently this first resolution is just agreeing that the fighting should stop. Its the next resolution that decides the actions the international force. I hate how slow these "resolutions" are going. I thought our civilization was Global now? Nothing should ever escalate like this, it is the World's responsibility.
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I have a comment about civilians dying. I believe it is the responsibility of an army, especially a respected and powerful army, to protect civilians. To say something like "these civilian were expendable because of known hostiles or because of a message we want to send" is horribly inhuman. Things like atomic bombs over Japan, or bombing raids in civilian populated cities should (have) never happen(ed).
In an example of say, some terrorists in a civilian building, an army should only execute plans that assure civilian survival, i.e. special ops raids. It is far more dangerous for the army, but it is not fair to say that the lives of civilians on one side are worth more than the lives of the civilians on the other side, as it is said in justifying the deaths of civilians because terrorists were also eliminated.
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I have a comment about civilians dying. I believe it is the responsibility of an army, especially a respected and powerful army, to protect civilians. To say something like "these civilian were expendable because of known hostiles or because of a message we want to send" is horribly inhuman. Things like atomic bombs over Japan, or bombing raids in civilian populated cities should (have) never happen(ed).
In an example of say, some terrorists in a civilian building, an army should only execute plans that assure civilian survival, i.e. special ops raids. It is far more dangerous for the army, but it is not fair to say that the lives of civilians on one side are worth more than the lives of the civilians on the other side, as it is said in justifying the deaths of civilians because terrorists were also eliminated.
RashomoN
Eran
LANTHWICK said:
i'm happy to see you are o.k......i hope that all your relatives fine as well....
we also pray for peace....hope we will reach it soon!
Holy Webland
Member
It is genocide what Israel is doing. And I believe that Israel know they are civilians while killing them. Olmert says "The civilians that we killed were Hizbullah's folk. So they were also terrorist. We are right in what we are doing."
I think that peace never come until Israel, USA and UN stop its aggressive behaviour! I lost my all hope with Middle East. Sorry...
I think that peace never come until Israel, USA and UN stop its aggressive behaviour! I lost my all hope with Middle East. Sorry...
HeathenPride
Agressive Member
Because of the idiotic homour of NATO and Israel, Israel is getting alone in middle easy much more.
On the second had, Israel is facing we Turks against nationalism and anti-secularism.
And the worst of all, thousands of civilians has been killed because of the "power show" of Israel, and Israel had a great "military success" that 1/3 of people who has been killed were children.
On the second had, Israel is facing we Turks against nationalism and anti-secularism.
And the worst of all, thousands of civilians has been killed because of the "power show" of Israel, and Israel had a great "military success" that 1/3 of people who has been killed were children.
I guess it's so easy to talk from turkey when you don't know the whole truth
after an investigation in Kana it appears whoever reported the dead and wounded there has given a false report with an exagurated number of dead...
it's the whole dead children factor I talked about in this thread a few pages ago
@Holy Webland: I can't see how you blame the UN the US and Israel but not hizbollah who did start all of this...
Israel will hunt hizbollah untill they're not a threat to Israel anymore
You also failed to mention that Hizbollah rockets are not targeted at military bases or soldiers but at Israeli civillians...in fact most Israeli casualties and wounded in this war are civillains.
so I know you don't know what you're talking about so please shut up!
after an investigation in Kana it appears whoever reported the dead and wounded there has given a false report with an exagurated number of dead...
it's the whole dead children factor I talked about in this thread a few pages ago
@Holy Webland: I can't see how you blame the UN the US and Israel but not hizbollah who did start all of this...
Israel will hunt hizbollah untill they're not a threat to Israel anymore
You also failed to mention that Hizbollah rockets are not targeted at military bases or soldiers but at Israeli civillians...in fact most Israeli casualties and wounded in this war are civillains.
so I know you don't know what you're talking about so please shut up!
Holy Webland
Member
As a Turkish, I am most objective than you.
It is not important what I know, the history know how Israel kills the thousands of innocent people in Palestin and Lebanon. It will be recorded to history as a shame. I wonder how you tell about this shit to your sons in the future...
It is not important what I know, the history know how Israel kills the thousands of innocent people in Palestin and Lebanon. It will be recorded to history as a shame. I wonder how you tell about this shit to your sons in the future...
Metal head87
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Holy Webland said:
You can't be objective without seeing this through Israeli eyes...and since international media has never been objective about Israel(the turkish media too) so you can't rely on it.
and as for your remark about Israelis killing Plaestinians and Lebanese innocent people I have already posted about it in this thread and I'm tired of repeating myself...but the fact that you don't mention the thousends of suicide bombings by palestinians on Israeli territory against Israeli civillians already implies you are living in the fog and don't really see what's happening here or choose to ignore it on purpose and call yourself objective...well I don't buy it.
besides objectivity has nothing to do with anything...this is about justice in its simplest form...unprovoked attack on a country by a terroist organization deserves a strike back.
Frosties said:
it's not hopeless...I could use a little help here explaining the Israeli position in this...since appearently a lot of people don't really know
trentdk
Member
All I have is bbc.co.uk and reuters.com to keep me up-to-date, (forget my local news... no one at work even knows shit is happening over there).
I think Paradoxile's viewpoint, and the opinions of everyone else, are indispensable.
Does anyone draw a contrast between these events, and the US army / Iraq? I don't know if Israel plans on occupying Lebanon, but I remember our army "going after terrorist", and then before I knew it, we took over Iraq
I think Paradoxile's viewpoint, and the opinions of everyone else, are indispensable.
Does anyone draw a contrast between these events, and the US army / Iraq? I don't know if Israel plans on occupying Lebanon, but I remember our army "going after terrorist", and then before I knew it, we took over Iraq
UnConscious
Stream of Unconsciousness
I want to make a few points here, although this thing seems to be going too far.
First of all, I should make it clear that I think Israel had the right to attack Hizbollah, because they bombed Israeli cities and as paradoxile said, not aiming at military targets but at civilians. So Hizbollah is not fighting in the manner of a "war".
And, you can't stop the "war" now because you can never be sure that they won't attack again. And the people who should understand this the best should have been the Turkish people, since PKK resides in Iraq and the Iraqi government (or let's say, the non-official Kurdish government in Northern Iraq) doesn't do anything about it, just like the Lebanese government cannot or does not do anything about Hizbollah. So? We are thinking of entering Iraq to destroy PKK. Now think that we start cleaning the terrorists, and then the world says "hey guys, stop fighting!". Would we stop it? No. Because PKK would never stop.
On the other hand, what has Israel done? They started with air strikes. To stop Hizbollah's missile attacks as soon as possible. But that has costed in too many civilians' lives. Do you remember Ilan, that you said the soldiers did not attack a car carrying an important terrorist because his wife was in the car, too? Nice. But in Kana, the fact that civilians didn't obey Israel's warning and leave the place, did not stop them from attacking the place. Was this terrorist's wife more important than the people in Kana?
Israel is too aggressive in defending her own people, and I strictly disagree that it's "justified". The same thing that happens to you is also happenning on the other side. People are suffering and dying there, too, in even much worse conditions and clearly nobody really supports them. It's not fucking "justified". Ok, you cannot bring peace without fighting, in these conditions, it's so sad but true. But still, you should care for civilians in any case, otherwise you lose your right to bring peace. You should make a difference to reserve that right. And striking cities from the air and killing a thousand of civilians for not to lose your soldiers, it's not "justified". You cannot be cold-hearted against the civilians on the other side to stop your own from dying, or you'll join the endless chain, the vicious circle.
The saddest thing about "them", like I said is that they don't get real support from anybody. We can clearly see it from what you wrote in the other topic.
We cannot do anything about this war but talk. So please, speak. Please say that you are sorry for the people dying in Israel. Please say that you are sorry for the people dying in Lebanon. Please don't say that it's "justified". They are not numbers, they are people.
First of all, I should make it clear that I think Israel had the right to attack Hizbollah, because they bombed Israeli cities and as paradoxile said, not aiming at military targets but at civilians. So Hizbollah is not fighting in the manner of a "war".
And, you can't stop the "war" now because you can never be sure that they won't attack again. And the people who should understand this the best should have been the Turkish people, since PKK resides in Iraq and the Iraqi government (or let's say, the non-official Kurdish government in Northern Iraq) doesn't do anything about it, just like the Lebanese government cannot or does not do anything about Hizbollah. So? We are thinking of entering Iraq to destroy PKK. Now think that we start cleaning the terrorists, and then the world says "hey guys, stop fighting!". Would we stop it? No. Because PKK would never stop.
On the other hand, what has Israel done? They started with air strikes. To stop Hizbollah's missile attacks as soon as possible. But that has costed in too many civilians' lives. Do you remember Ilan, that you said the soldiers did not attack a car carrying an important terrorist because his wife was in the car, too? Nice. But in Kana, the fact that civilians didn't obey Israel's warning and leave the place, did not stop them from attacking the place. Was this terrorist's wife more important than the people in Kana?
Israel is too aggressive in defending her own people, and I strictly disagree that it's "justified". The same thing that happens to you is also happenning on the other side. People are suffering and dying there, too, in even much worse conditions and clearly nobody really supports them. It's not fucking "justified". Ok, you cannot bring peace without fighting, in these conditions, it's so sad but true. But still, you should care for civilians in any case, otherwise you lose your right to bring peace. You should make a difference to reserve that right. And striking cities from the air and killing a thousand of civilians for not to lose your soldiers, it's not "justified". You cannot be cold-hearted against the civilians on the other side to stop your own from dying, or you'll join the endless chain, the vicious circle.
The saddest thing about "them", like I said is that they don't get real support from anybody. We can clearly see it from what you wrote in the other topic.
paradoxile said:
We cannot do anything about this war but talk. So please, speak. Please say that you are sorry for the people dying in Israel. Please say that you are sorry for the people dying in Lebanon. Please don't say that it's "justified". They are not numbers, they are people.
Metal head87
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trentdk said:All I have is bbc.co.uk and reuters.com to keep me up-to-date, (forget my local news... no one at work even knows shit is happening over there).
I think Paradoxile's viewpoint, and the opinions of everyone else, are indispensable.
Does anyone draw a contrast between these events, and the US army / Iraq? I don't know if Israel plans on occupying Lebanon, but I remember our army "going after terrorist", and then before I knew it, we took over Iraq
The Iraq war has nothing to do with this. Hezballa commited an act of war against Israel. Israel isn't even attacking Lebanon, they are attacking actualy terrorists that happen to be in Lebanon. These are terrorists that actually attack Israel. They were showing the missiles falling on the news, but I guess they don't show that on BBC. Maybe Fox had special effects to make it look like Israel was being attacked, maybe that is it? Everyone always talks about how the conservative media, which is not even that conservative, is lying and full of shit. Did anyone ever stop to think that the very liberal media is also full of propaganda? People only believe what they want to believe even when they see the facts in front of them.
trentdk
Member
Metal head87 said:
Interesting. I think the reason I questioned a similarity was that a terrorist attack invoked, eventually, an occupation. I don't yet think it is similar or dissimilar, but I do believe saying "Israel isn't even attacking Lebanon" is a bit of a stretch. The country's infrastructure and capital have been targets.
Metal head87 said:
That was my whole point about the news, it sucks; this thread is indispensable because it is populated by first person point-of-views.
Metal head87
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Only the infrastructure where the terrorists are known to be hiding. Israel's missiles target those exact locations. Hezballa just fires missiles pointed at Israel knowing that it is more likely to hit innocent civilians than military personnel. Granted they don't have advanced technology so they are limited as far as how well they can target, but it's not like those kinds of orginizations are known to avoid civilians.trentdk said:
The bottom line is, they commited an act of war when they were unprovoked. Is just taking it so they can be the world's doormat the way to go?
Metal head87
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Ohh, I'm sorry. I thought you said that the opinions were dispensible. Sorry about that. It's funny how missing that 'in' completely changes everything that I thought you said.
