The (Post-Recession/Obama) Non-Batshit Politics Thread of 2015 & Beyond

[zabu of nΩd]

Looks like there hasn't been an old-fashioned politics thread here for a while, so I thought I'd give it another shot. Maybe we can give this one a different angle by focusing on our own stories - what we've learned over the years, how our views have changed, which issues we care more about now, etc. At least for starters.

NoumeGnon and Einherjar, you know the routine - no derailments, please.

The poll is private, in case anyone's worried about that. I encourage folks to post their choices (spoiler alert: mine's at the bottom of this post). I guess I should also clarify that I'm not affiliated with any political groups, and I'm starting this thread purely out of boredom.



TLDR version (my own views):

Personally I've learned a lot about politics in the past six years. Back in 2008-9, when the recession had us all thinking the world was about to end, I was pretty taken with the rise of alternative media and anti-establishment sentiment, and renounced my "liberal" label for a while.

By now the shock of all that turmoil has worn off, I've gained some appreciation for the complexities of politics, and I'm a little more optimistic about the state of the world today when I compare it to say 40, 80, or 150 years ago.

One issue I still care about more than the general public is education. I want to see high schools focus more on giving students relevant work experience, so they don't go into a university clueless about what they're good at while racking up massive debt until they figure it out. A college degree should not be the universal standard of employability.

Schools should also do a better job teaching students to actually study a political issue carefully before forming an opinion on it, and not to live their lives in an information bubble dominated by their peers and entertainment/"infotainment" media. It's really sad how many people get most of their news from Fox, MSNBC, Comedy Central, and the like.

My poll choice is left-leaning moderate.

 

[Tonka Time]

According to isidewith.com I'm a liberal.
The fact that I used that to determine my political stance should tell you how apathetic I really am about it though.
The one area where I guess I would be considered "conservative" deals with firearms. I love guns.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Non-Batshit Politics? Impossible.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

That was obviously a reference to the other thread, but I'll state for the record that I don't find politics "batshit". I think we have a very logical system in place for managing a batshit public.

 

[Nephilim96]

Liberal/Apathetic.

 

[Matt]

liberal on social issues, left-center on economic issues. Pretty plugged in to world events and politics.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

That was obviously a reference to the other thread, but I'll state for the record that I don't find politics "batshit". I think we have a very logical system in place for managing a batshit public.

A system where elected representatives represent their contributors instead of their constituents is logical?

 

[tagradh]

What's the difference between left moderate and liberal here?

Never sure what Americans mean when they say 'liberal' as often it seems to be used to cover everything left of what in much of Europe would be seen as slightly right of centre.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Far right-wing libertarian-ish idealist, somewhat apathetic these days in practice. In bulletpoint form because I'm too lazy/tired to go in big detail...

- Soft eugenics (incentives for abortion/birth control for the underclasses/suicide for the unhealthy) and maintaining high standards for our population (low tolerance for criminals but very open borders). Turnover/recycling is an essential process in basically any system, no reason it shouldn't be applied to population of a nation.

- I'm an admirer of capitalism and free trade but think many people lack the morality and/or judgment to be good capitalists. Ideally some of them would be eliminated via point 1, but I think a healthy propaganda system to encourage good values would be very helpful. A debtor's halfway-house would be nice; don't literally throw them in prison immediately, and don't let people die because they blew their savings on a stupid new car, but take control of their lives and finances until they demonstrate some financial aptitude. Eliminate insurance and replace it with a system of loans where government pays the aggrieved quickly and the debtor pays it back similar to a mortgage or child support, over a period of decades if necessary.

- Actively attack tribal units. Cut off all public support for sports and other displays of team-identification, make political parties as informal as possible, charge families or religious representatives with crimes equivalent to those committed by the ones they are covering up for, zero tolerance for destructive protests, etc.

- Increased public surveillance/information. If the USA willed it, we could easily have bodycams for every police officer and free cameras for every citizen that desired one for their cars. Privacy ends outside of private property, no one should have the expectation of not being recorded by public or private parties.

- Near-complete ownership of self and property, as well as the right to defend either with deadly force.

tl;dr, a bigger and badder Singapore, Jefferson's U S A, and a younger Nazi Germany rolled into one.

 

[Einherjar86]

Non-Batshit Politics? Impossible.

I practice a form of necronaut politics pursuant to the model laid out in Freud's Beyond the Pleasure Principle and elaborated further in the documents of the International Necronautical Society.

Just kidding. Sorry Grant.

I didn't vote because I don't know where I fall and I hate forcing myself into contradictory positions. I am positive that most people see me as a liberal (or some extreme form of progressivism), but I'm not anti-market. I'm just anti-free market. But that's because free markets don't exist.

 

[Dak]

I guess libertarian sort of works. But not as it aligns to anything called libertarian in visible politics. "Anti-estsblishment" doesn't work as I'm not anti all establishment - just a lot of current ones lol.

 

[Zephyrus]

I haven't felt compelled to declare a personal political platform for some years now, but I suppose I "caucus with the Democrats" as the new Independent senator of Maine, Angus King, said he'd do.

If I were to declare for a realistic ideology, I'd say I'm a Democratic Socialist, in the belief that a democracy is functional insofar as the electorate is educated and healthy. Free, universal college education and healthcare are a must in my view, and it's not hard to see the economic benefits of a populace with greater skills and who don't burden the healthcare system as much because of the focus on preventative care. Also, a highly educated populace would be more psychologically happy since it would seek out higher pleasures produced by the arts and humanities and not just the base pleasures provided by current materialism and consumerism. Such a diversified demand for intellectual goods will have economic benefits by keeping intellectuals and artists employed. I'd set up a tax code such that there is a reasonable level of socioeconomic equality between all citizens, thereby eliminating class warfare.

If I could change the world by means of some divine power, I'd set up a monarchy to enforce and regulate the above system. That monarch would be somewhat like Plato's philosopher-king.

 

[Einherjar86]

Radical.

 

[Summerian]

BAH!
Left is Socialist.
Right is Conservative or Liberal.
BAH!
Only in america...

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Pro-guns, pro-choice, pro-homo, pro-capitalism. When I gave a shit I was told I'm libertarian-conservative but definitely contribute to the apathy party yearly now.

Individual independence, socially and financially, is something I value in society.

 

[Einherjar86]

NoumeGnon and Einherjar, you know the routine - no derailments, please.

Can we ask clarifying questions? For instance...

- Soft eugenics (incentives for abortion/birth control for the underclasses/suicide for the unhealthy)

...

- I'm an admirer of capitalism and free trade but think many people lack the morality and/or judgment to be good capitalists. Ideally some of them would be eliminated via point 1

...

- Near-complete ownership of self and property, as well as the right to defend either with deadly force.

How do you square "ownership of self" with a system that a) punishes people for being disabled or unhealthy, and b) takes measures to exclude such people from participating in the economic engine of society?

You advocate ownership of self, but you seem to have a very limited perspective on what a "self" is.

 

[Mort Divine]

While I don't have near the amount of knowledge regarding socialism/communism as a good friend of mine, I've found over the years from paying attention to things she says about it, discussions she's had with others, debates, etc. that I find myself interested more and more in it.

From some dumb quiz I took it said I side mostly with Rosa Luxemburg's brand of communism, so I suppose I should investigate her as well as more into foundational works from Marx and such.

I have a reading list somewhere I think

 

[waif]

I've come to believe free market capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy, and only the rising tide of the Industrial Revolution lifting all boats for the last couple hundred years has allowed the illusion of democracy to survive.

Socially, I'm pretty liberal. I support gay marriage, reproductive rights, and the legalization (and regulation) of most if not all narcotics. I don't have a strong stance on gun rights one way or the other because any reliable data is drowned out by a sea of bullshit on both sides. I do think the NRA is ridiculous and citizens don't need machine guns or rocket launchers, though.

 

[Dak]

I've come to believe free market capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy

Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.

There is a crossover of agreement here.

 

[Matt]

Free market economics is a fascinating concept. The original economists firmly believed that it was the only way to ensure that the government didn't infringe on people's rights. But it looks like free market policies only end up creating/enabling a plutocratic system, resulting in massive wealth gaps, chronic structural issues, and ultimately making entry into politics unattainable for 99% of citizens.

And I'm not saying that the US has ever employed a pure free market system before Daky jumps down my throat about that.