The ultimate IR, NEBULA, REAL DEAL test

[Ermz]

Wow, I'm glad I got it right. The difference is in the low end. A just sounded better.

Did note that A had the clearest low-end, but my experience with real cabs in the past in most rooms is that they tend to have pretty messy mid-bass frequencies, so the cleaner low actually pushed me away from A.

I was listening mostly to the midrange saturation characteristics, in order to hear the power amp working. It's bizarre that led me to pick Nebula... but as Unicorn said, it may be the extra harmonic content it seems to add. Hyper-analogue, fook yeah. Wonder if those Alex B programs I use are 'more analogue' than actual 4k desks, hahah.

 

[John_C]

I'm glad that I noticed a difference in the low end with A, although I did get it wrong. At least it shows I have decent fine hearing and monitoring, even if I don't know how to analyse what I'm hearing!

 

[Pipotron3000]

Ok guys, here are the results for both distorted and clean.

A - Real Amp
B - Nebula
C - IR

First, i would have said (pref order):
A - Real Amp
C - Nebula
B - Impulse

And now i realized why : i listened too low.
I could not get the dynamic from Nebula.

It was obvious to me than A was more dynamic than the two others, even at low volume.
But B and C...

Listening louder on good cans or monitoring, i get the picture.
A is more "detailed" than B, witch is more than C.

Listen to the palm mute part, it is more evident.
You hear that high mid "crunch" on each pick attack on A, less on B and less on C.
A sort of "micro-dynamic", it is subtle.
And this lack on micro dynamic details can lead to an impression of missing/messed high frequencies, less "clarity" with Nebula, and even more with IR (just my point of view).
Less details, especially when picking.

I think the differences are so subtle that some bad treatments can transform the A in C in the mix
But i think too you can "revive" the micro-dynamic things on B/C with a subtle BBE and/or CabEnhancer plug.
Or another of my favorite tricks with impulses : some parallel "no convolution" cab sim, to give back some "bite".

I would be pleased to use any of them in a mix anyway

Thanks for the test !

 

[Clark Kent]

Great test! Thank you so much!

I know it's too late to guess now but I'll be 100% honest. I guessed right... NOT by just listening to these clips but I did the phase-invert trick and the B clip had some weird dynamic differences that the A and C clips didn't have. That's why I thought it had to be Nebula. That being said, to me the B clip sounded the worst all the time. The low end dynamic just wasn't as punchy as the others. Then I A/C'd the rest and this was hard to tell but I think there were very slight nuances in the A clip that sounded more analog. Not something that'd make the A sound better than B, just analog "faults". Maybe a bit more air/room?

About IR's not being as good as the real thing in the mix situations. I think this is not true. I used to think this way but then I made some of my best mixes out of tracks that I THOUGHT were real amps mic'ed up. Turned out they were IR's. So I'd say it's a mental thing. If you know there's something digital in a track you somehow feel the need to try and compensate for it and not trust that it's just fine the way it is. If you KNOW that it's a real cab being mic'ed you'll easily trust that it's good and not feel the need to compensate for things that disturb you like sizzle and a boomy low end etc.

Anyways I love to see these "PURISTS" get angry when they have to show that they're right and fail to do so. It's always these comparison threads that get these purists angry. The real question is "Why are you so emotional?". I think it's a bit similar when a man of faith learns that there's no God. They just get angry because they don't know how to feel.

 

[Matt-Steele]

Anyways I love to see these "PURISTS" get angry when they have to show that they're right and fail to do so. It's always these comparison threads that get these purists angry. The real question is "Why are you so emotional?". I think it's a bit similar when a man of faith learns that there's no God. They just get angry because they don't know how to feel.

Well said.

 

[Clark Kent]

Since I use a lot of IR's nowadays I really wanted to find out if there's a difference in the EQ spectrum and turns out I got interesting results:

For those who don't know Ozone. The red line shows the difference between the REAL track.

A) So the difference between REAL and REAL is just a straight line.
B) NEBULA has a significant amount less low end than the REAL thing. It has a low mid bump... which makes me think it's there to compensate for the missing low end. Also seems like it has high and low pass filters.
C) The IR is not identical but those tiny differences you see are all less than half a decibel.

Ofcourse this is just a spectrum measurement... but I'd feel safer using an IR than Nebula since Nebula is clearly changing frequencies.

 

[Ermz]

Yeah, we found Nebula really hinges on what 'template' you use in the sampling session. Some are grossly inaccurate to the real deal. Good luck getting help from the developers on this one though...

I've gone back to using straight IRs, when I have to. I just wish someone would repurpose Nebula to this task properly.

 

[Skaldir]

Hey Clark,
just wanted to add you can't use this shootout for a general statement about Nebula and IR.
Me and Ermz have made more tests and the next one I do in the next days should be further in delevopment
Would be great to have some of Ola's DIs for that

also in what steps is the dB resolution in your pics?

 

[Clark Kent]

Hey Clark,
just wanted to add you can't use this shootout for a general statement about Nebula and IR.
Me and Ermz have made more tests and the next one I do in the next days should be further in delevopment
Would be great to have some of Ola's DIs for that

also in what steps is the dB resolution in your pics?

The dB resolution is... well that dip in the low end of the Nebula track is about -5dB. Above that frequency the differences in Nebula were +-2dB, so nothing too drastic. That low dip is between 50-125hz.

I tend to have an open mind towards new stuff. I'm in no way against Nebula. I just happen to think that there are things in a real cabinet that can't really be modeled digitally. Like f.ex. a speaker resonates in a very random way and you can't really calculate things that are random. Ofcourse you can emulate that and I guess it's what Nebula is doing right?

The phase-flip of the original track and Nebula track sounded a bit scary to be honest. I'll post a clip in a minute.

 

[Clark Kent]

The first clip is "the difference" between real mic'ing and Nebula and the second clip is "the difference" between real mic'ing and an IR.

Something very weird in the Nebula track... clear dynamic differences in the low and high end. The IR version flipped shows us the mid-frequency scoop in an extremely clear way.

 

[Skaldir]

The artifacts in the Nebula cancellation btw. come from non real time export. They are not there with real time export. But I figured it out too late for that shootout.

 

[B36arin]

I downloaded the files tonight and after listening for a little while I actually got it right. I wasn't sure between the impulse and Nebula since I haven't used Nebula, so I don't know how it sounds. But B sounded more, C was very static compared to the other two. A just sounds most realistic, after listening for a little while it became pretty clear.

 

[spencerlogan]

A= Impulse B=Nebula (I have never used Nebula so the comparison between that and the others is a shot in the dark..) But C however sounds most realistic to me based on my initial impression.

EDIT:

Ok guys, here are the results for both distorted and clean.

A - Real Amp
B - Nebula
C - IR

Congrats to BlackwindGabriel, Kev, CAlexanderParra and Brandon E. for guessing right!



Enjoy your meal!

Damn.. The differences don't seem to be very distinct.

 

[Clark Kent]

Damn.. The differences don't seem to be very distinct.

Yeah... honestly I think people need to have quite an imagination to decide which is which. I consider my ears pretty accurate. Also I'm listening to these tracks on my KRKs and Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro headphones which are the flattest headphones on the market. Still I couldn't hear any difference, I'm honest enough to say that. The B track had a little less low end punch IMO, but I wasn't 100% sure if it was just my imagination.