The Ultimate Modelling Challenge

[dcb]

Three of those are in the stock AxeFX cabs. No, I don't use them. I searched for some digital fizz and found that the AD/DA converters in the old Mackie D8B was the reason. All those are made through that desk, unfortunately. :/

:-(

so are you guys releasing impulses from hell anytime soon then ? ;-)
id pay up to 100 $ for a single impulse that sounds great with the axe...
even more, just to finally have something i canwork with.

still havent found anything decent (witout addign shitloads of voxengo curve eq...) redwirez are ok, and i love the combination of u47 + sm 7 // as i couldnt ever get my hands on a u47, but still they sound pretty weak compared to my references (for example the new deftones!!)

im using the exact same setup (same pickups, same amp model (JMPRE) same mic combo) but it sounds all fizzy OR empty...

 

[dcb]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1369729/MP3/X50/x50_2.mp3

man that sounded very very close !!

 

[GeertSamuel]

Gotta love that "You will never..." thing. So human, so sure, and so wrong. Like flying (a while ago for sure but anyway), walking on the moon, "the mp3 format is no threat to the recording industry", Irak has weapons of mass-destruction, and the list goes on.

Ok...you've got a point there..
But say..just as an example.
There would be software out there that can simulate any custom room you create, you can move the mic in any direction on the milimeter close, have perfect mic simulators (i.e. SM57, MD421...etc.etc.), have perfectly copied amps that sound 100% as the real thing..etc.etc...
You record an album with it, sound good, maybe amazing, but where is the challenge, YOU, a Mic, Cab, Amp & Preamp trying to find that sound spot on, that thing you've been looking for, just by taking time to sit around instead of just calling a preset... The essence and soul will be lost..

It's just like boinging a transsexual, it probally looks good, sounds good, feels good....but you're actually just gay.

 

[DanLights]

Ok...you've got a point there..
But say..just as an example.
There would be software out there that can simulate any custom room you create, you can move the mic in any direction on the milimeter close, have perfect mic simulators (i.e. SM57, MD421...etc.etc.), have perfectly copied amps that sound 100% as the real thing..etc.etc...
You record an album with it, sound good, maybe amazing, but where is the challenge, YOU, a Mic, Cab, Amp & Preamp trying to find that sound spot on, that thing you've been looking for, just by taking time to sit around instead of just calling a preset... The essence and soul will be lost..

It's just like boinging a transsexual, it probally looks good, sounds good, feels good....but you're actually just gay.

That's pathetic. "where's the challenge?" In music production the only thing that matters is the end result, now matter how you achieve it. Edit, program drums, bring in session musicians cause the original ones can't play it, use an ampsim preset instead of a real mic'd amp. It's the END RESULT what gets you more job, more money more fame etc. etc.

If it sounds better with an ampsim, then ampsim is the way to go, it's lame to stick with all the trouble of doing the real thing just "for the challenge" IMO.



Of course, to this day real amp is still IN MOST CASES better sounding than ampsims

 

[GeertSamuel]

That's pathetic. "where's the challenge?" In music production the only thing that matters is the end result, now matter how you achieve it. Edit, program drums, bring in session musicians cause the original ones can't play it, use an ampsim preset instead of a real mic'd amp. It's the END RESULT what gets you more job, more money more fame etc. etc.

If it sounds better with an ampsim, then ampsim is the way to go, it's lame to stick with all the trouble of doing the real thing just "for the challenge" IMO.

Of course, to this day real amp is still IN MOST CASES better sounding than ampsims

The more things are being simulated, the more music loses it's identity. Why do albums like Metalicca's Black Album, Machine Heads' Burn my Eyes etc.etc. sound like they do.. Because there's an effort put into creating the best tone and sounds without loading presets.

How you want to put it, or whatever, the moment ampSIMS takes over, identity will be lost because of presets that will continually be used over and over and over. Bands can sound like eachother, every variable is taken out of the routing.

Music is losing it's soul with this, if it hasn't allready!

This is just my opinion!

 

[~BURNY~]

Revalver MKIII 5150
Maybe a bit undergained or something.
(Made with Wild Hades method, seem to make sense for comparison's sake)

Still prefer the original. Sounds less "static" and "richer"... I'm surprised by how close you can get it tho.

 

[Line666]

Yeah I'm sure this is what people said when Pro Tools first came out. Cos it's just a simulation of a mixing desk really isnt it.

Doesn't really matter if you agree with it either, do what you want, because this is the way things are going.

Just look at anything in your house, forty years ago it would have been all nuts and bolts, but now you'll be damned if theres an appliance that you can find that doesnt have a circuitboard in it.

If the vision and creativity is anywhere its got to be in peoples heads, not in whatever gear their using. If music becomes to uncreative for you, then thats because people aren't using their noggins as much as they used to, but since we're now dealing with a human element and not blaming the gear its entirely subjective.

 

[onqel]

The more things are being simulated, the more music loses it's identity. Why do albums like Metalicca's Black Album, Machine Heads' Burn my Eyes etc.etc. sound like they do.. Because there's an effort put into creating the best tone and sounds without loading presets.

How you want to put it, or whatever, the moment ampSIMS takes over, identity will be lost because of presets that will continually be used over and over and over. Bands can sound like eachother, every variable is taken out of the routing.

Music is losing it's soul with this, if it hasn't allready!

This is just my opinion!

i think you guys can exclude the word 'ampsims' from the posts mentioning presets. it sounds like you're actually mad at impulses (which is a "preset" of a cab and mic position) and ampsuite presets. the ampsim itself is customizable and you could even run it through a poweramp and mic it yourself for the challenge of findinding a good spot on your cab.

 

[~BURNY~]

8505


How about creating a separate debate thread?

 

[~BURNY~]

Edit/fixed
Amplitube 5150

 

[DanLights]

The more things are being simulated, the more music loses it's identity. Why do albums like Metalicca's Black Album, Machine Heads' Burn my Eyes etc.etc. sound like they do.. Because there's an effort put into creating the best tone and sounds without loading presets.

How you want to put it, or whatever, the moment ampSIMS takes over, identity will be lost because of presets that will continually be used over and over and over. Bands can sound like eachother, every variable is taken out of the routing.

Music is losing it's soul with this, if it hasn't allready!

This is just my opinion!

Who said ampsims are just presets? In your mentioned future when as you said there are perfect simulations for the real thing, then it will sound (duh) exactly as the real thing. How does loading a preset in an amp sim any different than setting up your amp like it says in your piece of paper titled "my amp settings" and miking it up like it says in the paper?


I intend no personal attack towards you at all, but I just feel you (as many many people) just disguise your "real amp elitism" with blames that ampsims suck the soul of music, when you should be blaming Disney really

 

[DanLights]

Yeah I'm sure this is what people said when Pro Tools first came out. Cos it's just a simulation of a mixing desk really isnt it.

Doesn't really matter if you agree with it either, do what you want, because this is the way things are going.

Just look at anything in your house, forty years ago it would have been all nuts and bolts, but now you'll be damned if theres an appliance that you can find that doesnt have a circuitboard in it.

If the vision and creativity is anywhere its got to be in peoples heads, not in whatever gear their using. If music becomes to uncreative for you, then thats because people aren't using their noggins as much as they used to, but since we're now dealing with a human element and not blaming the gear its entirely subjective.

I was going to post something of this sort but you couldnt've put it better

 

[digitaldeath]

Who said ampsims are just presets? In your mentioned future when as you said there are perfect simulations for the real thing, then it will sound (duh) exactly as the real thing. How does loading a preset in an amp sim any different than setting up your amp like it says in your piece of paper titled "my amp settings" and miking it up like it says in the paper?


I intend no personal attack towards you at all, but I just feel you (as many many people) just disguise your "real amp elitism" with blames that ampsims suck the soul of music, when you should be blaming Disney really

Exactly! The way he was talking, I was expecting to see that he has an amp collection bigger than EddieRawMachine's!

I never try to copy a particular tone with an ampsim. It's pointless. I treat all ampsims as unique amps in themselves, regardless of what they are modeled after. That's the only way you can ever be happy with them and get satisfactory results.

Also, if you're having to use a bucketload of surgical EQ on an ampsim, you're doing it wrong (IMO). Get the ampsim sounding decent with the DIs you're working with and then experiment with different IRs. If you're still not happy, then give up, stick with real amps & cabs and STFU!

 

[~BURNY~]

Solo C
Still trying to emulate the 5150...

 

[elapidae1]

Here's a clip of my new toy (still under development).. it's a simulation of the 5150II/6505+ and you didn't have any clips of that amp in the "challenge".. so it's closer to the 5153 than the 5150.. I suck at matching tones anyway

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1369729/MP3/X50/x50_2.mp3

- TSS Vintage Overdrive
- .. the neverending project X50
- Sperimental Mesa Trad 4x12 V30 SM57 05 (LeCab)
- No EQ

I've had some issues with the project, and still do..

Love the sound of this one. Hurry up and release it!!!

 

[elapidae1]

I agree that a 2 part setup would be better. First try to match just the preamp sound and then try to match the cabbed sound. Would be a better way for such a test. Then you can really see how good ampsims and impulses really can/could be...

 

[poisson]

I fought with the mesa clip, and although couldn't match the depth of the cab I like the clarity of my sim better.

Mesa vs. reecto

 

[abt]

This is a great idea but if someone nails it how are you going to know they didn't just play around with one of the amped clips? Perhaps the DIs should have different but similar playing on them.

 

[lolzgreg]

I fought with the mesa clip, and although couldn't match the depth of the cab I like the clarity of my sim better.

Mesa vs. reecto

I hate to be a jerk, but the sim tone you conjured up really isn't even anywhere close to good. It's undergained, hollow, lacks depth, has no presence, has nasty mids, and has no low end. Even though Lasse wasn't shooting for the best tones in his recording, he got very good results. Use this opportunity to try to match your sim tone more closely to his and you will be happier with your mixes and tones in the future.

 

[elapidae1]

Well this thread has atleast made my use of ampsims/impulses alot better. By trying to emulate the 5150 (although i cant match it) i have now gotten a sound i actually like. The hardest part is to match the cab sound. I agree with Ongel and think the problem isnt ampsims but impulses. Also Ongel is the impulse you use one that you will be releasing or is it found else where?