The Whining and Bitching Thread

i don't currently have any markers that will clearly write on my bag
i could prolly buy a silver paint marker
i just don't already have one
 
Slammed said:
Every year there is the debate about back burning and clearing and every year it's the same. Governments don't back burn and clear any more because it's a cost they think they can avoid, and every year there isn't a fire they consider it a win. Meanwhile the landowner get kicked in the arse if they do too much clearing themselves, especially in state forests that border their property. Governments have been fucking us over for all the years I've lived in the bush and they never know how to handle the crisis when it arrives. Pisses me off no end and it's why so many people in this area didn't and wont listen to evac orders, of course they know it may end bad for them but many wont leave early, they'll fight to the death because the Black Saturday warnings and orders came through way to early.
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The government are saying they couldn’t back burn because it was too dry to do so. So they do nothing. Total bullshit. My stepdad had been clearing and mowing down the road they live on himself, but it was still way too overgrown and if the council had caught him doing that of course they would fine him.
So their procedure instead of doing proper prevention is just to do early evacuations and high five each other if no people die.

“Slammed said:
Unfortunately people also don't learn. 12 months after Black Saturday people were moving back into our area and surrounding themselves with even more trees, some had fire plans but many didn't, but the lessons weren't learnt. Because our fires in 09 were deliberately lit things down here were quite different in regards to what the RC recommended and many people were able to rebuild where they shouldn't have. 10 years on so many people are living in jungles and if the conditions strike again we will have a repeat of what happened.
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I went into my parents property on Monday to round up the cattle and fix fences etc and I couldn’t believe the houses that survived. Old weatherboard places in dense bush with trees literally hanging over the roof. My parents place was out in a clearing surrounded by mowed green grass and garden. God is an absolute prick.
 
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CiG said:
I think it's fucked that they wouldn't let STN's stepfather back in to do what he needed to do.
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While I agree in part you still have to look at it from a safety stand point. If they let anyone back in after they order to leave has been issued it makes whoever changes the order liable for what happens. It sucks and it's why the stay or leave order needs looking at but there is a lot more to it than just letting someone back in.

During Black Saturday we had plenty of people let through the road blocks under the guise of "helping", "it's my house" and many other excuses more than 50% of them who got let through in the first three days were fucking looters. I feel for people who lose shit and one rule rarely fits all situations but it's not a personal thing that these volunteers and aides on the scene do.
 
Satanstoenail said:
The government are saying they couldn’t back burn because it was too dry to do so. So they do nothing. Total bullshit. My stepdad had been clearing and mowing down the road they live on himself, but it was still way too overgrown and if the council had caught him doing that of course they would fine him.
So their procedure instead of doing proper prevention is just to do early evacuations and high five each other if no people die.
Click to expand...

The annoying thing is we've been dealing with this since at least the 80's. Every year the excuse is something different, every election the new government blames the previous government. They wont let people drive 4wd's through the parks, they wont let cattle graze in the highlands and then the greenies get all the bush tracks closed and governments think a closed gate stops fires. At the same time local councils insist fire breaks be cut, they insist long grass be cut and they insist that landowners remain vigilant about fire safety. Each of our farms that border state forests comes with an order from the department of sparks and embers telling us how big the fire break must be and when it needs to be in place, but the state government rarely cleans up on the other side of the fence. It sucks and unfortunately we've just had to learn to live with it.

Satanstoenail said:
I went into my parents property on Monday to round up the cattle and fix fences etc and I couldn’t believe the houses that survived. Old weatherboard places in dense bush with trees literally hanging over the roof. My parents place was out in a clearing surrounded by mowed green grass and garden. God is an absolute prick.
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Fire like that is unbelievable and unpredictable. The house I grew up in survived Black Sat. but thirty metres to one side the neighbours was burnt to the ground, less than 100 metres from them the house on the next block exploded in a massive fire ball leaving nothing, 50 metres further on the house was standing. In many places it looked like the fire almost selectively picked out houses. We had one side of a bus scorched, all the windows explode and the seats burn, yet on the other side of the bus the paint work looked brand new.
 
CiG said:
Looters, I hadn't even considered that. Good point.
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It was seriously hard to deal with when it happened. Then on day three when the cops completely took over the road blocks many people assumed they could just get back using the excuse "I lost my ID in the fire" but the cops were under orders and it eventually came down to rego plate checks. But being in the bush there is always heaps of ways into the properties and the looters still struck and struck as hard as they could.

An event like Black Saturday brings out the best in people and there is always good people out there, but unfortunately it also brings out the worst in people and the poor buggers on site have to quickly weigh up everything, they are rarely just following one set of orders.
 
You have another potential case of liability when the home owner who has lost everything arrives at his house to find a looter and hurts or kills them for what they are doing. They might well deserve it but the looter's family then starts suing people. It's all fucked up and fucked up from every angle.
 
It may not happen that way all the time but our system allows for it. There has been people injured in the process of robbing houses successfully suing for damages. There was a woman in QLD who got shit faced in a pub and walked out the door and into the path of an oncoming car and sued both the car driver and the publican. It probably wont get them out of the crime but in this country you can't just shoot someone because you find them breaking the law and if you do there is a possibility you could find yourself in more trouble than the other person.
 
Slammed said:
While I agree in part you still have to look at it from a safety stand point. If they let anyone back in after they order to leave has been issued it makes whoever changes the order liable for what happens. It sucks and it's why the stay or leave order needs looking at but there is a lot more to it than just letting someone back in.

During Black Saturday we had plenty of people let through the road blocks under the guise of "helping", "it's my house" and many other excuses more than 50% of them who got let through in the first three days were fucking looters. I feel for people who lose shit and one rule rarely fits all situations but it's not a personal thing that these volunteers and aides on the scene do.
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I totally understand all that but they were letting others back in to collect pets and they let a girl back in to collect a helmet that was used in a 70’s cop show. It was in the news. Meanwhile, my stepdad can’t even run in to collect important documents and turn the sprinklers on.

Slammed said:
The annoying thing is we've been dealing with this since at least the 80's. Every year the excuse is something different, every election the new government blames the previous government. They wont let people drive 4wd's through the parks, they wont let cattle graze in the highlands and then the greenies get all the bush tracks closed and governments think a closed gate stops fires. At the same time local councils insist fire breaks be cut, they insist long grass be cut and they insist that landowners remain vigilant about fire safety. Each of our farms that border state forests comes with an order from the department of sparks and embers telling us how big the fire break must be and when it needs to be in place, but the state government rarely cleans up on the other side of the fence. It sucks and unfortunately we've just had to learn to live with it.
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Blaming the greenies to me sounds like you’re still complaining about shit like you were in the 80’s. Times have changed and ‘the greenies’ are well aware that prevention and planning is required. I totally agree with the majority of what you say by the way, but I blame government and council arse covering above all else. As long as their boxes are ticked and a bunch of people don’t die, it doesn’t matter what happens.

Slammed said:
Fire like that is unbelievable and unpredictable. The house I grew up in survived Black Sat. but thirty metres to one side the neighbours was burnt to the ground, less than 100 metres from them the house on the next block exploded in a massive fire ball leaving nothing, 50 metres further on the house was standing. In many places it looked like the fire almost selectively picked out houses. We had one side of a bus scorched, all the windows explode and the seats burn, yet on the other side of the bus the paint work looked brand new.
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Yep doesn’t surprise me at all. I saw crazy flammable and combustible stuff everywhere that the fire had just gone around for no apparent reason whatsoever.
 
Satanstoenail said:
I totally understand all that but they were letting others back in to collect pets and they let a girl back in to collect a helmet that was used in a 70’s cop show. It was in the news. Meanwhile, my stepdad can’t even run in to collect important documents and turn the sprinklers on.
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I wasn't there so I obviously can't comment on the specific case but I do see both sides and there is always two sides to everything.

Satanstoenail said:
Blaming the greenies to me sounds like you’re still complaining about shit like you were in the 80’s. Times have changed and ‘the greenies’ are well aware that prevention and planning is required. I totally agree with the majority of what you say by the way, but I blame government and council arse covering above all else. As long as their boxes are ticked and a bunch of people don’t die, it doesn’t matter what happens.
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The greenies do still deserve a large portion of the blame, they demand trees be planted on any vacant land and en masse, they demand tracks and other such areas get closed off to the public to be preserved. Sure the governments, local, state and federal don't have to listen but like above there is two sides to every story and governments at all levels have to be seen to be doing something proactive. It's easier to bend over at the request of the greenies and ignore shit like back burning that only becomes an issue when there is a fire than it is to let the greenies get out of hand all the time. Look at those fucking greenies in East Gippsland whose protests hampered getting machinery out to help in the fires, these work for the dole protesters are a fucking joke and cause more problems that they will ever admit too. The words "Fertilise the bush. Doze in a Greenie" are as true today as they were when they were first spoken.
 
Manic doesn't own a gun because the big tiddy goth girls in his head told him they were bad

Krow said:
Castle laws here. Kill intruders, ask questions later. Be made out as a hero.
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Same. Castle Doctrine in Ohio. Covers house and primary vehicle.

Just make sure you say to the officers that you were 'in fear for your life' so it doesn't come back as manslaughter or something like that.
 
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