Top 20 Essential Black Metal Albums

[crimsonfloyd]

That guy is definitely smarter than someone who thinks that a self-admitted joke band is the pinnacle of black metal and its aesthetics. Especially so considering the stolen percussion parts and cut-and-paste nature of the Genevieve album.

Like I said, it's a brilliant work of pure aesthetics. It doesn't matter if the drum parts were stolen, it still achieves something brilliant. Velvet Cacoon are far from the first artists to achieve something artistically great that involved theft. The entire idea of disjointing the work of art from the artist/ name is a major theme in modern and post modern art. A big part the entire idea of Velvet Cacoon idea is the denial of the individual identity in favor of the dissolution into nebulous material, which is why oceans, skies etc. are such common themes on their recordings.

Also, I never said Genevieve was the pinnacle of black metal.

 

[skeptik]

Can somebody explain to me why crimsonfloyd is losing his shit? Do you feel noble for slaughtering a sacred cow or something?

 

[Spiderchrist]

Thread over.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Can somebody explain to me why crimsonfloyd is losing his shit? Do you feel noble for slaughtering a sacred cow or something?

Don't be stupid. How am I "losing my shit"? All I'm doing is articulating my opinion. There's about a million Top 20 Black Metal album lists on the internet. The only point I see to a thread like this is to engage in covervation about why we consider certain albums to be essential. If people prefer, we can all just write out our lists and call people slurs when they don't like the same albums we do. If that's what people want, fine.

And how am I "slaughtering a sacred cow?" Plenty of black metal fans have said much worse about DMDS than I have. I'm certainly not saying anything radical; it has always been a divisive album. I'm not even saying it's shit. I'm just saying it's a good but flawed album.

 

[skeptik]

Why do you respond with childish banter like "don't be mad at me because you'll put shit on your mantle"? Either you're trolling or you're overly invested in convincing people that DMDS is not deserving of praise (despite spewing forth such ham as "Genevieve explores the paradox of living consciousness recognizing that it is composed of raw material mass but being unable to sufficiently communicate that aspect of its being" about an album that is most certainly not essential).

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Why do you respond with childish banter like "don't be mad at me because you'll put shit on your mantle"? Either you're trolling or you're overly invested in convincing people that DMDS is not deserving of praise (despite spewing forth such ham as "Genevieve explores the paradox of living consciousness recognizing that it is composed of raw material mass but being unable to sufficiently communicate that aspect of its being" about an album that is most certainly not essential).

First of all, you're comparing posts that were made almost two weeks apart from one another. To suggest I have any sort of sustained agenda is pretty absurd.

Yes, the admittedly childish "shit on your mantle" statement was in response to Master Yoda's equally intelligent statement of "fuck you". Like I said, if people want to trash talk, I'm fine with trash talking. If people want to talk more seriously about the music, then all the better.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am trying to explain why someone would consider Genevieve to be great album, since Bittencourt and some others asked the perfectly valid question of why I would put the album on an "essentials list", but I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me by the end of the thread. If anything, I would rather have someone explain why they think DMDS is so great, since I see it differently.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

fags

Sums up my thoughts.

 

[Estellise Sidos Heurassein]

Velvet Cacoon does not even have a unique sound, playing style or production values. It is not good.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Velvet Cacoon does not even have a unique sound, playing style or production values. It is not good.

Totally disagree. I don't think that there was a black metal album that preceded Velvet Cacoon that had such a low, dense and deep sound. If you can refer me to a band with similar production quality and bass/guitar tone, I'd love I hear it.

Also, as far as I know, they were the first black metal band to integrate shoegaze. Again, if you know a band who precedes them who did so, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Einherjar86]

This is pointless, because Black Lotus's Harvest of Seasons would be on my list, which undoubtedly would draw criticism and disapproval from the masses. But I like my folk black and "post black" (whatever the fuck that really means), so that's what's on my list.

 

[Nekromantik]

Totally disagree. I don't think that there was a black metal album that preceded Velvet Cacoon that had such a low, dense and deep sound. If you can refer me to a band with similar production quality and bass/guitar tone, I'd love I hear it.

What about Strid? And the French scene?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

What about Strid? And the French scene?

I haven't heard Strid, so I'll have to check them out and get back to you, but I don't think any of the early French bands have a similar sound quality. Lots of bands with dense and muddy production but usually it is more of a product of feedback an lo fi recording techniques, rater than the guitar and bass tone itself.

 

[Nekromantik]

I haven't heard Strid, so I'll have to check them out and get back to you, but I don't think any of the early French bands have a similar sound quality. Lots of bands with dense and muddy production but usually it is more of a product of feedback an lo fi recording techniques, rater than the guitar and bass tone itself.

To be honest, I never really thought of Velvet Cacoon as being that original. I'm only mentioning Strid off the top of my head, but I'm sure I've heard other albums which feature a similar style and production pre-dating Velvet Cacoon. Velvet Cacoon really aren't that old of a band nor is Genevieve that old of an album. And anyways, I think a lot of the American black metal scene that became popularized was most reminiscent of the French scene in style and production, to my ears at least.

I guess it depends on how stringent you are in looking for a comparison. I mean, earlier you remarked that Dimmu Borgir were a watered-down version of Emperor but I don't think the two bands sound remotely similar at any point in their careers.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr_Cneca2Dw

To be honest, I never really thought of Velvet Cacoon as being that original. I'm only mentioning Strid off the top of my head, but I'm sure I've heard other albums which feature a similar style and production pre-dating Velvet Cacoon. Velvet Cacoon really aren't that old of a band nor is Genevieve that old of an album. And anyways, I think a lot of the American black metal scene that became popularized was most reminiscent of the French scene in style and production, to my ears at least.

I don't think that sounds anything like Velvet Cacoon. What I'm talking about is the dense and watery bass and guitar tone:



I've been racking my brain, and the two bands that I can think of that have somewhat of a similar tone that proceed Velvet Caccon and Paysage d'Hiver and Brenorivrezorkre.



[youtube]relmfu[/youtube]

I guess it depends on how stringent you are in looking for a comparison. I mean, earlier you remarked that Dimmu Borgir were a watered-down version of Emperor but I don't think the two bands sound remotely similar at any point in their careers.

Seriously? You just haven't listened close enough. Dimmu Borgir and Emperor often sound quite similar.



Take this song for example. The choir samples are in the same tone and style as Emperor songs such as "Beyond the Great and Vast Forest" and the riff at the 0:45 mark sounds extremely similar to the lead off riff in "Curse you All Men".

Overall, there are a lot of crossover between the two band's sounds, Emperor are just much, much better musicians and songwriters.

 

[Nekromantik]

I'll have to have a look through my collection to see if I can find something closer to what you're looking for.

Regarding Dimmu/Emperor, I have both bands' discographies. I still don't think they resemble each other at all and I think you're giving Emperor too much credit overall. Emperor wasn't the only band to write riffs and music like that at the time. And about that particular riff: Dimmu's "Spellbound" is from 1997 whilst Emperor's "Curse You All Men!" is from 1999, so that would suggest the opposite be true, but I highly doubt either band was ripping the other off.

Also, if you haven't heard 1991's Passage to Arcturo by Rotting Christ, have a listen because this was released prior to anything Emperor or Thou Shalt Suffer released. I'm especially referencing right around the two-minute mark.



And also from 1991:

 

[KafkaX]

My list will probably not meet any satisfaction other than my own, and thats fine. These are my 20 essential black metal albums, in no specific order:

Austere - To Lay Like Old Ashes
Silencer - Death - Pierce Me
Immortal - Pure Holocaust
Drudkh - Blood In Our Wells
Dimmu Borgir - Stormblast
Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Beherit - Drawing Down The Moon
Blut Aus Nord - Memoria Vetusta II Dialogue With The Stars
Deathspell Omega - Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice
Gris - Il était une forêt...
Imperium Dekadenz - Procella Vadens
Inquisition - Ominous Doctrines of the Perpetual Mystical Macrocosm
Lunar Aurora - Andacht
Miserere Luminis - Miserere Luminis
Mortifera - Vastiia Tenebrd Mortifera
Negura Bunget - Om
Agalloch - Pale Folklore
Weakling - Dead As Dreams
Altar of Plagues - White Tomb
Watain - Casus Luciferi

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I'll have to have a look through my collection to see if I can find something closer to what you're looking for.

Regarding Dimmu/Emperor, I have both bands' discographies. I still don't think they resemble each other at all and I think you're giving Emperor too much credit overall. Emperor wasn't the only band to write riffs and music like that at the time. And about that particular riff: Dimmu's "Spellbound" is from 1997 whilst Emperor's "Curse You All Men!" is from 1999, so that would suggest the opposite be true, but I highly doubt either band was ripping the other off.

Yeah I don't know if they were ripping each other off, its probably more of a matter of sharing mutual influences. However, I do think they produce a similar sound, only one is a lot more simplistic than the other.

Also, if you haven't heard 1991's Passage to Arcturo by Rotting Christ, have a listen because this was released prior to anything Emperor or Thou Shalt Suffer released. I'm especially referencing right around the two-minute mark.

Yeah I really like Rotting Christ and had Ritual in my top 20 list. I wouldn't be surprised if Emperor were influenced by both bands (almost definitely Rotting Christ). However, the reason why I would consider Emperor more essential than Rotting Christ or Dimmu Borgir is that they employed truly symphonic techniques in creating black metal.

Rotting Christ play pretty straight forward, melodic dark metal with big string melodies layered on top- which is fine; it works quite well for what they do (especially on the first few full lengths).

In contrast, Emperor takes the notion of symphonic black metal to another level with Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk; all the instruments- and not just the keys- are treated in a symphonic manner. The synths don't only provide leads, but also provide counter melodies to the multiple layers of guitars. As a result you have far richer and more complex sound than earlier symphonic black metal bands were able to create.

 

[Krow]

here I go, just for fun since this thread has turned into a boring argument.

In no particular order
1. Bathory - Bathory
2. Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
3. Blasphemy - Fallen Angel of Doom....
4. Nokturnal Mortum - Goat Horns
5. Deathspell Omega - Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice
6. Mutiilation - Vampires of Black Imperial Blood
7. Summoning - Dol Guldur
8. Burzum - Det Som Engang Var
9. Gorgoroth - Pentagram
10. Necromantia - Crossing the Fiery Path
11. Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger
12. Impaled Nazarene - Tol Cormpt Norz Norz Norz...
13. Marduk - Dark Endless
14. Blut Aus Nord - Ultima Thulée
15. Dissection - Storm of the Light's Bane
16. Kvist - For Kunsten Maa Vi Evig Vike
17. Samael - Blood Ritual
18. Satyricon - Nemesis Divina
19. Nagelfar - Srontgorrth
20. Dornenreich - Bitter ist's dem Tod zu dienen

 

[Onder]

Not at all. The vocals are terrible. It's like Attila listened to Ritual and thought all he needed to do replicate Storm's style was make a bunch of goofy, clown-like gurgles. Also, the production focuses too much on creating a "spooky" atmosphere and consequently sacrifices the vicious element of the compositions, which in my opinion is the most powerful element of Mayhem's sound. The guitar work and drumming is excellent though, I'll give you that.

Why do you think he was trying to replicate Štorm? He was using his distinctive vocals way back with Tormentor, about 3 or 4 years before Rituál was released. And tbh, their vocals don't sound all that similar. The production doesn't sacrifice anything either. I would respond to your other posts but you've proven unworthy with the first one because it's load of bullshit.

EDIT: That post about comparing DMDS and Genevieve "aesthetic accomplishment" is funny though.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Why do you think he was trying to replicate Štorm? He was using his distinctive vocals way back with Tormentor, about 3 or 4 years before Rituál was released. And tbh, their vocals don't sound all that similar. The production doesn't sacrifice anything either. I would respond to your other posts but you've proven unworthy with the first one because it's load of bullshit.

EDIT: That post about comparing DMDS and Genevieve "aesthetic accomplishment" is funny though.

Other than the fact that the vocals come from the same human being, the vocals on Tormentor and DMDS have very little in common.

Anno Domini: sharp, dry, punchy shouts/growls. Ranging from high to mid pitched; mostly in a higher picth. There are no quasi-singing passages, except on "Elisabeth Bathory"; otherwise he sticks to growling/shouting. The vocal performance is clean, on point and strong.

DMDS: Growls are generally in a lower and deeper tone; they're more wet and slurred, with each passage being dragged out. Lots of parts where Atilla makes goofy gurgling sounds. On many occasions Atilla ends a growled line with a quasi-singing stanza or does a singing/growling hybrid (this is the aspect that I think might have been picked up from Ritual). These passages are terribly executed, with Atilla's vocals constantly going out of tune. The straight forward singing passages (i.e. the bridge of "Freezing Moon") are also sloppy and out of tune.

If Atilla had done a vocal performance similar to the one on Anno Domini for DMDS, then DMDS would have been a much better album. As it stands, all the sloppy attempts at singing and the stupid gurgling sounds seriously decrease the quality of the recording.

As for the production, if you think it works, you think it works. Personally, I would have preferred a harsher, more cutting edge on the guitars and just a rawer sound overall.