Top Death Metal Albums of all time....
- Thread starter AndyA7X
- Start date
J.
Old Fart
J.
Old Fart
Again, lets put this into context, people. In 1998, when TSOP was released, NO ONE had a problem calling this death metal. Anyone else remember differently, or were you even listening to metal back then? It is only revisionists that want to try to seem important and different, for the sake of it, to label this as anything other than death metal.
If TSOP is not death metal, neither is Focus, Unquestionable Presence, Testimony of the Ancients, The Gallery, The Jester Race, etc, which is quite absurd, no matter your tastes.
If TSOP is not death metal, neither is Focus, Unquestionable Presence, Testimony of the Ancients, The Gallery, The Jester Race, etc, which is quite absurd, no matter your tastes.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
mutantllama
Active Member
J.
Old Fart
So you're saying back in 1993, '97, and '95 that these albums weren't considered death metal?
Again, I guess we're gonna keep playing the context game. Though, I'm not saying you're wrong.
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
Death Aflame
voice of dissent
- Feb 1, 2004
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Honestly what is the big fucking deal? The album obviously plays with clear-cut genre distinctions, so attempting to somehow quantify which one of these influences has more of a presence on the album is a waste of time.
Ultimate_Symphony
Rusted Angel
- Jul 18, 2002
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Which is exactly my point Jeff, you just shot your own foot without noticing. I really don't care about labels, it just struck me as funny that Deicidal started bitching about genre labels when before that he got all defensive when people told him Death's new stuff was not death metal.
Anyways, back to the point. How in the world if TSOP (musically speaking) is so far removed from death metal you can still call it death metal? hence my point earlier. Nobody in this world would be able to say Control Denied's album is death metal and keep a straight face. So let's be honest here, death's later albums have much more maidenisms in the music. It certainly has much more in common with straight up heavy metal than let's say Testimony Of The Ancients, Blessed Are The Sick or hell, even Unquestionable Presense.
Deicidal
New Metal Member
- Jul 6, 2008
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J.
Old Fart
Fair enough. I do concede that even Churck tried getting away from the death metal tag, but that was due more to trying to distance himself from what was, at the time, a stagnating genre that he helped create.
However, I say, for the third time (is it conveniently being ignored?) that when it was released over 10 years ago, everyone was calling TSOP death metal. No second guessing. Was anyone else listening to metal at that time? If not, read reviews of the album.
This is similar to the morons who claim Venom is not black metal because of what is held to be black metal traits in today's so called 'scene'.
Everything must be taken into context for its time, and not given a definition or categorization based on today's criteria.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
I don't think this applies to EVERYTHING, and sometimes not even to genre tags. Black Sabbath almost certainly weren't considered heavy metal when they first came out, as that wasn't really even a viable genre term iirc. They were probably considered rock 'n roll and even have a comp "double album" called We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll (awesome tape btw), but no one nowadays knows them as "rock 'n roll" if they are into metal. We know them as the originators/forerunners of pretty much both doom and traditional heavy metal. Context is very important in art, but you really can't just generically apply the above quote to all art because you'll run into problems like this one from time to time. I agree with it to an extent, but it's something you have to be careful about mentioning.
J.
Old Fart
In Black Sabbath's case, though, the terms 'heavy metal' or 'doom' were hardly, if at all, known or used back in 1970.
Death metal was obviously a well known genre in 1998
It matters not, I respect and understand everyone's thoughts on the matter.
Death metal was obviously a well known genre in 1998
It matters not, I respect and understand everyone's thoughts on the matter.
Ultimate_Symphony
Rusted Angel
- Jul 18, 2002
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Indeed, that was a point I brought up a few weeks back when we had a similar discussion.
I know all about the reviews and it's true, they were being called death metal at the time. My opinion on the matter is that people got accostumed to calling Death a death metal band (since at one time they were) and the tag just stuck. Also, Death is usually one of the gateway bands to the genre and people usually don't have that much knowledge of death metal when they start listening to them. When one starts digging deeper it's when you start to acknowledge the difference between Death's music at the time and other death metal bands.
Though I do agree with you to a certain degree, I think that is not the case here. Personally I compare their music to Nespithe, Like An Everflowing Stream, Changes, etc. The similarities just aren't there, so I don't call them death metal anymore.
TalesOfTerror
MetalHotSauce
"Doom" wasn't used in '70 but "heavy metal" was.
It's just that it was used differently.
Like, "The band has heavy metal sounds" as opposed to "they are a heavy metal band".
In any case, endless arguing about genre classification is really one of the worst aspects of heavy metal forums.
Less arguing more band suggestions.
I'll mention Obituary's Casue of Death as one of my favs.
It's just that it was used differently.
Like, "The band has heavy metal sounds" as opposed to "they are a heavy metal band".
In any case, endless arguing about genre classification is really one of the worst aspects of heavy metal forums.
Less arguing more band suggestions.
I'll mention Obituary's Casue of Death as one of my favs.
Death Aflame
voice of dissent
- Feb 1, 2004
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This is true. Tags are more often than not applied retroactively, for instance film noir was a term that scholars and critics applied to a group of films well after they had been released and consumed. And it is a term, I think we would agree, that is quite valid generally in its categorization of certain films. Hence, I think it is probably easier to make sense of things historically as opposed to trying to do so 'in the moment' as it were, which is why a revisionist history is often required over and above what was said at the time of release.
Either way though, I still don't think it is a simple matter to unwaveringly describe Death's later work as non-death metal. As I said before, what criteria decides this? Is it a simple quantification of qualitative 'influences'? If so, I think this is a highly problematic methodology. One could contrast this to say Opeth who, musically, have never exhibited anything substantially death metal-like during their entire career save Akerfeldt's vocal approach. Death, on the other hand, is a much more ambiguous case.
Damn good comedy rock though. I mean really. Brendan from Home Movies, who is amazing on guitar, and Gene Hoglan, the "atomic clock".
Deicidal
New Metal Member
- Jul 6, 2008
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Oh yea,h definitely, but whoever classifies them as one of the best death metal bands needs a reality check.
S<issors
wins.
- Jan 16, 2007
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I think this argument is silly since no-one in their right mind would consider any latter-day death among the best death metal albums
for the OP, I just wanted to comment that I actually do enjoy part of one Lamb of God song: the first half of Walk With Me In Hell, up to that badass "NOW WITNESS THE END OF AN AGE" bit. In Flames' older material (up through Whoracle) is also fun. However, the stuff you're getting so far is much better, so I wouldn't branch out into that sort of supbar material if I were you
for the OP, I just wanted to comment that I actually do enjoy part of one Lamb of God song: the first half of Walk With Me In Hell, up to that badass "NOW WITNESS THE END OF AN AGE" bit. In Flames' older material (up through Whoracle) is also fun. However, the stuff you're getting so far is much better, so I wouldn't branch out into that sort of supbar material if I were you
XSASweet
Member
- Nov 16, 2007
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