genaatloos
I empty my nose on you..!
this is what i know: the pentagram represents in the modern nature religions the goddess (wicca), but it is used a lot as an symbol for satan.. but i think other people can help you better
Viking mythology and all that goes with it
- Thread starter Celtik Militia
- Start date
mjollnir1965
Member
Chris_TeT said:
Pentagrams were used since the dawn of time in various cultures...from the Mesopetamians to the Greeks. However, the neo-pagans adopted the pentagram as to represent the 4 elements (earth, air, fire, water) and the fifth element....spirit. However, neo-pagans...especially the Wiccans, have no basis in any historical record. Their "salad bar" religion borrows from all pantheons and they seem to want to lay claim to Yule, Freyja, and the runes. Borrowing from different pantheons is not something that a true indigenous religion would do. The pentagram has NOTHING to do with Viking Mythology!
Socom
Slavic warrior
As far as I know, satanists only use down-pointed pentagram which represents goats head. And I never noticed nordic/slavic mythology using that symbol.
Tyra
Member
As Mjollnir pointed out, wicca consists of many elements from many different religions, druidism, slav, greek paganism, roman and so on. Within the wicca community, whose symbol is the pentagram just like the crucifix is the christian symbol, there is a branch that refer to themselves as "norse wicca" among other names. Such a person would worship the Great Goddess, just like all wiccans do, but refer to her as, for example, Freja, rather than Aphrodite or whatever. Such a person would also feel comfortable with runes and so on, as this is part of his/her version of Freya/The Great Goddess. These people show up a lot at our blots. They call themselves wicca, and us asatruar. We call them wicca and notasatruar. The name of the goddess is the same, occasionally, but the religions are distinct, just as Yahwe is both the jewish and the christian god, but the teachings are different. Asatru does not recognize Satan. He is a christian invention.
Tyra
Member
Chris_TeT said:
Pagan religions. There are many, such as asatru, wicca, driudism, greek and roman religions, slavic religion, all the North and South American native indian religions and so forth. Use the search engine within this site and you will find more info on this, for example, the difference between heathen and pagan.
;-)
Socom said:As far as I know, satanists only use down-pointed pentagram which represents goats head. And I never noticed nordic/slavic mythology using that symbol.
So do people that are pagan find this symbol offensive?!
Tyra
Member
I personally don't find it offensive, because, like I said in my previous post, in my religion, we do not recognize Satan. There has to be Christianity for Satan to even be a concept, right? Satan would not be considered evil if he hadn't done what he did in the Bible. The Bible is not my rulebook, and so I don't take offense to that symbol (although the Christians would have you believe that Odin and other non-Yahve deities are personifications of Satan, because they are worshipped as gods even though they say there is "only one god and" Odin is not "his name" - but that is THEIR interpretation of their religious dogma, and it doesn't apply to my thinking).
I do take offense when our own religious symbols, like the runes or mjöllnir or the suncross, are abused, but this particular symbol does not apply to me and mine.
I think it'd be more interesting to find out what a wiccan thinks about the pentagram being used as a satanist symbol, because wiccans also do not recognize Satan (generally), but because the symbol for their faith is assumed to be one and the same as that of Satanists by some who don't know the difference (most people know which way a crucifix is supposed to face, but very few know which way is "up" on a pentagram), those same people assume that wiccans worship Satan. Now that can be a bad image to overcome in the western world, and it doesn't help any that a faction of wiccans prefer to call themselves "witches" for political reasons.
I do take offense when our own religious symbols, like the runes or mjöllnir or the suncross, are abused, but this particular symbol does not apply to me and mine.
I think it'd be more interesting to find out what a wiccan thinks about the pentagram being used as a satanist symbol, because wiccans also do not recognize Satan (generally), but because the symbol for their faith is assumed to be one and the same as that of Satanists by some who don't know the difference (most people know which way a crucifix is supposed to face, but very few know which way is "up" on a pentagram), those same people assume that wiccans worship Satan. Now that can be a bad image to overcome in the western world, and it doesn't help any that a faction of wiccans prefer to call themselves "witches" for political reasons.
Thrymfal
Snootchie Bootchies
satanism was started by a former circus performer looking for a tax break...
besides, if god really is god, that what could oppose his will? NOTHING!
besides, if god really is god, that what could oppose his will? NOTHING!
Sleipnir
Thorsmadr
Tyra said:
I'd watch out about what that Mjollnir character says T, he's a shady one.................................
Tyra
Member
Tyra
Member
Good afternoon!
I started my day out the way all days should start - with a grin! I woke up from two Jehovas Wittnesses banging on my door. They haven't been here for years (gee, I wonder why?). I didn't realize it was them until I had already opened the door, and so expected the customary long speech about it being Good Friday and how far I've removed myself from the happiness of Christ's children and all. Well, the guy started his little spiel, but then stopped dead in his tracks, mid-sentence, and gave me a very "Deer in the headlights look" and excused himself and litterally ran down my front steps! I said "OK, have a nice day" smiled and closed the door, trying to be polite but thinking "what was that all about"? Then I looked down and realized I was wearing my PJs - grey fleece ones with "Odin" in bright red letters across my chest and a picture of Him and Hugin and Munin on it. (We also have a few broadswords and a skeleton mounted by the door.) Apparently there is at least one non-asatru man in this community that recognizes a loosing battle when he sees one ( his "partner" looked about as surprised as I was at the quick retreat...).
I started my day out the way all days should start - with a grin! I woke up from two Jehovas Wittnesses banging on my door. They haven't been here for years (gee, I wonder why?). I didn't realize it was them until I had already opened the door, and so expected the customary long speech about it being Good Friday and how far I've removed myself from the happiness of Christ's children and all. Well, the guy started his little spiel, but then stopped dead in his tracks, mid-sentence, and gave me a very "Deer in the headlights look" and excused himself and litterally ran down my front steps! I said "OK, have a nice day" smiled and closed the door, trying to be polite but thinking "what was that all about"? Then I looked down and realized I was wearing my PJs - grey fleece ones with "Odin" in bright red letters across my chest and a picture of Him and Hugin and Munin on it. (We also have a few broadswords and a skeleton mounted by the door.) Apparently there is at least one non-asatru man in this community that recognizes a loosing battle when he sees one ( his "partner" looked about as surprised as I was at the quick retreat...).
Krigloch the Furious
Pants full of poo
Blutaar
RAVENSBURGER
Tyra said:
No wonder that he ran away from your house
Nice story...I should try this next time too.
skinnywhiteboy
Friend Of The Suncross
i have this Tshirt with WOTAN written on the chest in huge... and guess what some random guy told me?...
"so, tell me, what is the Will Of The Aryan Nation?" while pointing at the WOTAN thing... i had a hard time to figure out the acronym he was talking about.. i didnt even know it existed.
anyway i just answered "to find the holy Graal" and let him be.
"so, tell me, what is the Will Of The Aryan Nation?" while pointing at the WOTAN thing... i had a hard time to figure out the acronym he was talking about.. i didnt even know it existed.
anyway i just answered "to find the holy Graal" and let him be.
This brings up a question I have. What is it with the "white pride" or the whole nazi thing associated with Norse mythology? I've noticed skinheads wearing Thor's hammer and I've heard of Japanese gangsters or yakuza with Norse-themed tattoo body suits. Is it just something they adopted over the years and has no real meaning or what?Celtik Militia said:
Tyra
Member
Depends on who you ask, I suppose. To some, they are the true believers an th carriers of the aryan torch (and DNA). To me they are full of shit.
The beginning of this whole thing is a delapidated old idea that a German archaeologist, who in his day was one of the forefront figures of the then fairly new science, named Kossinna came up with. He wanted to find out why and how it was that Europe consisted of peoples speaking indo-european languages. He came to the conclusion that the germanic tribe had originated in Schleswig-Holstein (then a newly conquered German territory) and that they were the true, pure aryan race who, because they were such a superior race of people, had been able to conquer all the other European tribes by force (they were the Battleaxe people, who, according to Kossinna, possessed the first weapons in history that were meant for killing other people). All of Kossinna's ideas were fueled by the nazis, and Kossinna himself said, that any germanic person who supported any other theory was committing treason against his people.
The puzzle of the indo-europeans is still very much debated, but in scholarly circles there is no one in their right mind who would agree with Kossinna today (laypeople and nazis, though, yes). There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to archaeologically, linguistically or genetically support his claim. The idea he came up with, however, was used as a propaganda tool during the nazi era, and ithas lived on along with the nazi ideals.
Obviously, there is more to the story, such as how the nazis promoted the idea so well that it took hold, and how the research was performed, and more speciffically, how this has become a way for white males in prison to unite under one banner against Bloods and Cripps and Vida Loca etc. but, dude, I just wrote a research paper on it, and it's 40 pages long... I could go on for hours, because it really truly is an interesting sory! The above is the gist of it, though.
The beginning of this whole thing is a delapidated old idea that a German archaeologist, who in his day was one of the forefront figures of the then fairly new science, named Kossinna came up with. He wanted to find out why and how it was that Europe consisted of peoples speaking indo-european languages. He came to the conclusion that the germanic tribe had originated in Schleswig-Holstein (then a newly conquered German territory) and that they were the true, pure aryan race who, because they were such a superior race of people, had been able to conquer all the other European tribes by force (they were the Battleaxe people, who, according to Kossinna, possessed the first weapons in history that were meant for killing other people). All of Kossinna's ideas were fueled by the nazis, and Kossinna himself said, that any germanic person who supported any other theory was committing treason against his people.
The puzzle of the indo-europeans is still very much debated, but in scholarly circles there is no one in their right mind who would agree with Kossinna today (laypeople and nazis, though, yes). There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to archaeologically, linguistically or genetically support his claim. The idea he came up with, however, was used as a propaganda tool during the nazi era, and ithas lived on along with the nazi ideals.
Obviously, there is more to the story, such as how the nazis promoted the idea so well that it took hold, and how the research was performed, and more speciffically, how this has become a way for white males in prison to unite under one banner against Bloods and Cripps and Vida Loca etc. but, dude, I just wrote a research paper on it, and it's 40 pages long... I could go on for hours, because it really truly is an interesting sory! The above is the gist of it, though.
Tyra
Member
skinnywhiteboy said:
I bet you do, especially since Johan H gave me them...
The benefits of brothers are many. JW panzer PJs is just one of them! (Yep, I'm bragging. Wouldn't you if Johan was your brother?)
well actually, i who am a nationalist i have neo nazi and fascist friends..etc.. so i can tell you that that whole relation with white pride and pagan things today is in the question : white pride. many neo nazis today have realised that christianity is a semite religion and they don't want a jew as their messiah. so if they want to turn to a religion they turn to ancient paganism which is the true religion of the white people. Others who aren't that religious still respect the indo european religions and wear pagan symbols. and the reason why norse mythology is so successful among white supremacists is that the Vikings and germanics are like the symbol of aryan supremacy.
a Neo Nazi or white racist who is christian to me is a total idiot. a neo nazi or white racist who wants a religious path and chooses paganism is already more in touch with his ideals.
but most neo nazis don't really believe in paganism, or they have doubts... even if they wear pagan symbols. its mainly a way to honor the beliefs of their ancestors and to perhaps label themselves.. or just to be cool. depends of the person.
a Neo Nazi or white racist who is christian to me is a total idiot. a neo nazi or white racist who wants a religious path and chooses paganism is already more in touch with his ideals.
but most neo nazis don't really believe in paganism, or they have doubts... even if they wear pagan symbols. its mainly a way to honor the beliefs of their ancestors and to perhaps label themselves.. or just to be cool. depends of the person.
Tyra
Member
Celtik Militia said:
And there it is, exactly what I said above, when in all actuality astru is not really any "truer" of a "white people religion" than any other. It did not originate in Schleswig-Holstein any more than Christianity did. That is, however, what Kossinna stated. Those who really believe in what he said, are clearly not basing their ideas on actual historical events or actual current research. Religion is more often than not NOT based on historical fact, but politics really ought to be.
This is a good example of where religion has been used to promote a political movement. You cannot, in this day and age, in any way, shape or form find any shred of scholarly support for asatru being a pure white people religion that grew out of purely germanic values, and that has nothing to do with the religion being tainted with any political message. It has to do with the part where we now know more because more research has been done since Kossinna's days. The true "white people religion" could maybe possibly be said to have existed before Europe became "Indo-Europeanized", but not even then, as far back as into the mesolithic era, did it (i.e. the earlier white people religion) exist in a vaccuum.
The word Aryan should be taken as meaning Indo-European. Aryans were and are not white people (well, at least not what I think most people think of when they say "white" in a political sense - here we mostly call East Indians "East Indians", Iranians "Arabs" , Turks...well...that depends on where you live, but I am not going to list all the people who are actually Aryans but are not officially "white" here...), so if you call asatru a pure, aryan religion, you still have a bit of a problem explaining that away. That is not even up for dispute any more, as we now have a wonderful thing called DNA testing. Unless you really choose to shove your head up your ass, of course, but then you can believe whatever you can dream up. IMHO.
