Viking mythology and all that goes with it

[Tyra]

Well, yeah, I am pretty much in agreement with the above statement, but wanted to make a comment:
The Normans (mainly) brought with them a new system when they swept Europe, supposedly based on the Christian faith. They may not have had "slaves", but that is merely semantics. What they and their Christian followers brought with them was a system built on the backs of their own people, rather than on the backs of slaves: With them came the feudal system. The difference between a villein (livegen) and a slave is hairfine, but I tend to think that most thralls of the ON era would have rather been thralls under a Scandinavian master than a villein under one (my personal opinion only). To be a villein means that you by law have to live and work in a specific place that has been alotted to you. They did not own their own land, and they also had to provide free labour services to the owner of the land (generally a vasall) for a set amount of days each year. The villeins were, in reality, treated much harsher than a thrall, and had no rights under the law. This is where the "treat a man well and he will do well for you" ended. These people were worked to the bones, starved and abused, like "slaves" in the proper sense of the word. There really is no way out of the feudal system like there was for a thrall. A thrall could be sold like a slave, or he could buy his way out or be given freedom, but a villein could not. They had to stay, bound to a master that they were born to, forever.

Anyhow, Larsson, just for you, to prove your point that they knew of slaves, thralls and all that in their own ranks:

Bibeln, Nya testamentet. Ny översättning med förklarande anmärkningar av P. Waldenström, fjärde upplagan, 1921 /
Evangelium enligt Matteus. Kap. 20:26-28.

Den som vill varda stor, skall söka det genom att varda såsom en tjänare. Den, som vill vara främst, skall söka det genom att varda såsom en träl.

Träl är en livegen tjänare.
Uttrycket »träl» är därför starkare än
ordet »tjänare». Märk stegringen: Den,
som vill varda stor, skall söka det
genom att varda såsom en tjänare, den,
som vill varda främst (störst bland de
stora), skall söka det genom att varda
såsom en träl. Se till kap. 25: 21.

 

[Knarfi]

Huh? Waddaya mean? They took children as slaves, as well as grown men and women. All I meant was, that I don't imagine it being much fun, no matter how nice your master is, to go from being a freeman's child to a Norse thrall. Get it? (Oh, did you think I meant "that being" like a monster or something? I meant being as in "to be".)

Actually what i meant was.. WTF?! like in, uhh does that sentence makes sence? being getting doing and being this he goes being like doing being it.. or something.. maybe i just need to pay more attention in the english class.. anyway:

keep in mind my brother is Johan... He pulled my hair once!

Pulled your hair?! HA! meet my sister the terrorist!!!!!

Back to loki, it is actually one of (if not the) my favorite characters, i can actually see myself in him a bit (and my sister WOULD chop my head off). Also, because he is a complex and deep character, and he is not replaceable in the stories. And just because i havent grown up in a country where you dont grow up with this stuff (and so i dont "get it", wich is true, thats why i asked these questions, ofcourse) just makes me like him even more.

Well all i have done now is telling you all how much i love Loki, but that hasnt anything to do with my question, and your answers. Without Loki Ragnarok, and much more of the greatest events, wouldnt even have happened! Or at least not "story-worthy", and is therefor indeed the driving force.

Did i just answer my own question by qouting the shit out of you?

 

[Tyra]

Oooh, duh! Mea culpa. Strike that first "being" in that sentence. Sorry.

And I didn't mean the "get it" part in a snotty sort of way, either. I just meant that it is totally understandable if a complex character like Loki is difficult to grasp if you didn't grow up with him, and that some of us sort of get those things "for free", by osmosis, rather than have to learn it in a scholarly fashion.

 

[Larsson]

How about the exposure of infants? One of the few things I actually remember about the vikings from history class is that female infants supposedly where set out to be taken by the wolves. Whats the truth about this? I have heard that acts of that sort are only mentionend two times in the sagas. Both under extremely special conditions and severely punished on both occasions(if I recall correctly).

 

[Larsson]

Loki is totally misunderstood by most with Christian background.

To prove your point:

Loke from the computer game age of mythology. Never imagined him quite like that, looks pure evil.

 

[Tyra]

To prove your point:

Loke from the computer game age of mythology. Never imagined him quite like that, looks pure evil.

Yeah, precisely my point. He's not evil through and through, and should not be thought of as a Norse equivalent to Satan.

Now, about infanticide: Yes, it happened, especially in times of famine and if a child was deformed, or sometimes if a child was the child of a thrall. Basically, most cultures in the past (and some in the present) have set out children to die in times when a family could not sustain another mouth to feed. This was done in Scandnavia by Christians (ex Ælfric's De falsis diis and De auguriis in Hauksbók) as well as pre-Christians. It was not a preferred mode of birthcontroll, and it was not done on a whim. It is hard to say what the law said about it, because the oldest laws were not written down until later, however, the oldest Icelandic laws allowed infanticide. My understanding of things is, that it was not a common occurence in the ON society. It seems to have occured more in some specific areas, too, which leads to a skewed view of things: those who have written the histories ( see Ibn Fahadlan, for example) only traveled to some parts of the society as a whole, and thus reported back about only that part of society. Generally speaking, they would only visit richer places, such as Hedeby, where infanticide seems to have been more common. Most people lived on the farm, which is nothing like Hedeby. Life in general, is and was precious, children were thought of as riches. Some ON litterature report that feamale infants indeed were exposed, and women are underrepresented in the grave material. I tend to think of this as a result of different burial methods, as well as biased archaeological methods, but it could also imply that there actually were fewer women than men. In other words, I don't know how common it was, I just know that it did happen, and that for at least some of the ON world, it was accepted practise. I tend to think that how, if and when it had to do with why the child was set out to die,and I don't think it was a common practise.
A good, comprehensive book on the topic - Jochens, Jenny, ''Women in Old Norse Society'' - is the first real indepth study of infanticide in ON culture.

 

[Larsson]

I stumbled on on some interesting facts. There was actually 4 infants that was but out in open in the sagas. All where under special condition and all the infants where found. They didn't put them out to simply die, they where ment to be found by other familys. On all 4 ocasions it was also loked upon as a severe crime.

1.This was due to the father getting predict/foretell(spådom) that it would go bad for the child.

The wifes comment: ''It us not like you to say something like that, like the man you are(''en sådan man som du är'', kunde inte komma på någon bättre översättning), and you can't think it is right to act that way, as rich as you are''.

2. Signy gives birth to a daughter while visiting her brother Torfi, she dies while giving birth. Torfi who did not approve of this marriage saw this child as being outside of the family, he saw her as the the child of his enemy and that enemy had driven his sister into death. Therefore he sees it as vengance.

3.This child was a bastard and the mans wife convinces him to put it out. Still looked upon as an act of shame.

4.The father Åsbjörn is angry with the mother because she had given one of there children to be brought up by somebody else(''till en utomstående''). That was his weird idea of revange.

As far as I understand it though the people in the sagas wherent exactly poor.

''Basically, most cultures in the past (and some in the present) have set out children to die in times when a family could not sustain another mouth to feed. This was done in Scandnavia by Christians (ex Ælfric's De falsis diis and De auguriis in Hauksbók) as well as pre-Christians. It was not a preferred mode of birthcontroll, and it was not done on a whim.''

This proves that:
Gunnlaug Ormtungas historia, kap 3:
Det var sevänja, då hela landet var hedet, att de människor som voro fattiga och hade många oförsörjda barn, läto sätta ut sina nyfödda, men detta ansågs dock alltid vara illa gjort.


''Some ON litterature report that feamale infants indeed were exposed''


What litterature exactly? I have heard that the ON didnt make any difference between male and female children a far as value go.

 

[Tyra]

Larsson,
Upon reading your reply, I realize that I was not very clear when I posted earlier. Hence the following:

"What litterature exactly?"

Dunno at the top of my head, but Ibn Rustah did enter it into his chronicles, and I think Ibn Fahadlan did, too. Can't give you page numbers and so on, as my own copies are lent out at the moment. As for the ON sources, like I said, I can't remember at the top of my head, as it's been a year since I wrote the paper that lead me to come to these views. Sorry! That book I mentioned has exact references for the ON sources, though.

"I have heard that the ON didnt make any difference between male and female children a far as value go."
I am 100% in agreement! That's pretty much what I meant by
"I tend to think of this as a result of different burial methods, as well as biased archaeological methods, but it could also imply that there actually were fewer women than men." Archaeology is, unfortuantely, not at all unbiased. Some archaeologists, NOT myself, have chosen to interpret their findings as "there were fewer women than men and this would have been caused by feamale infanticide".

"As far as I understand it though the people in the sagas wherent exactly poor."
Again, I am with you. To clarify what I meant: "I tend to think that how, if and when it had to do with why the child was set out to die". That was a really fucked up sentence...I meant that I think it was more important "why" the baby was set out than how, if and when. Then "...in times when a family could not sustain another mouth to feed" - it may have been more acceptible then (if a family faced starvation), than say, as you say "under special condition": Those conditions must have been ones that were thought of as odd, inadequate or somehow not right, for them to be improtant enough to be mentioned in the sagas, don't you think? To be odd is a punishable offence in a culture that strives for all to be equal (you probably know this, as it is still very much a Swedish trait, only today we call it "den svenska avundsjukan" when someone complains about someone being "different" or "odd").
Anyhow, then I said "Generally speaking, they would only visit richer places, such as Hedeby, where infanticide seems to have been more common. Most people lived on the farm, which is nothing like Hedeby." From what I undertand, this infanticide that was punished, was that perpetrated by the sort of "newly rich" people in towns like Hedeby, who HAD money to sustain the extra mouth, but who committed infanticide anyways. That confirms the idea that you're aluding to with your comment that "the people in the sagas wherent exactly poor." I think the idea that the ON set their babies out to die left, right and centre stems from the fact that outside chroniclers, such as Ibn Rustah, would only visit bigger towns, like Hedeby, with it's newly rich. Then they would individually report back about this practise, that was actually specific to those places, which would make it sound - when you have more than one account - like it's a common practise everywhere. To boot, the ON litt, like the one you mention, tell us of infanticide. I feel that this is because it was an oddity, something so out of the ordinary that it was worth mentioning for posterity, so that they did not make such bad decisions again. To set an example. The sagas don't tell us of everyday life, they tell us of things that deserved mention. What you are left with is, in essence, a need to study the oldest lawtexts to see what they have to say.

 

[Mauler]

This thread has been an awesome read but is far too short!


Much respect Tyra, please keep up the good work.


EDIT - Actually I do have a question Tyra: How do you feel about how the ON, Vikings & Asatru are represented in not just the media but also computer games and the like? I have a great interest in mythology (and this thread has been stupidly fantastically wickedly awesome lol) and I had great fun playing through RUNE for example (which tells the story of a young warrior, Ragnar, who's runestone-guarding village goes to the aid of another nearby village (Copperruud? Not sure about the spelling, is it even a real place?) who's runestone is under attack by a dude named Conrack (if I remember right) who's alligned himself with Loki and believes that destroying the big runestones will bring about Ragnarok. Ragnar's longship is wrecked but he's saved from drowning by the Allfather (complete with ravens and one eye) and is sent off on a mission thru Hel's domain and the underworld to defeat Conrack. Loki features too I think he even has the dripping venom and chains but might be part snake?) and it's a great excuse for running about with big sharp weapons taking the heads off people and other creatures. I'm not too sure how accurate it is but I do know that most people (like here in the UK) think of Vikings as raping, pillaging big dudes with horned helmets...

And what do you make of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ásatrú

 

[Tyra]

He, he...well, it depends on if I'm PMSing when you ask me or not. There are days when I am so frustrated at having to explain the same damn (to me, obvious) thing over and over again, but 97% of the time, I understand that it's just ignorance. Christians and others have had over 1000 yeras to besmudge our name and purposely plant misconceptions, but also to mistakenly misenterpret things. I cannot possibly single-handedly erase that over night. But I can make a dent in it, so I try.
The thing about the Norse culture is that it still lives on, at least partially. Many Scandinavians do not reflect over why they do things a certain way, but those that do, often come to the conclusion that many of the things we do that are "typically Swedish", have to do with the cultural heriatge left to us by the Norse (or pre-Norse). This is difficult even for a Scandianvian to understand, unless you, like myself, actually have to disect it and study it over the course of several years. Sometimes, the causes are so deeply imbedded in the culture that they are hard to find, and they can almost never be understood removed form the original context. Obviously it is incredibly difficult for someone who is not brought up in a Scandinavian family to comprehend this! I get that. Their frame of reference is so completely different. I believe that that is part of how articles like the one you referenced to happen. The article is an assenine mistrepresentaioin of facts, but that's all they are: ignorance in print. It really hasn't got anything to do with me or my faith, because it is fiction. The other part is what I mentioned above - if you tell someone they are not something for, oh, say 1000 years, and that their religion doesn't exist, well, some are going to believe it. If you are actively discouraged by your "superiors" (parents, kings, autorities, teachers) to ignore or shut out your intuition, to stop listeing to spirits and goddesses, then eventually, you won't hear them. We teach children to ignore their gut instincts, because we don't need it since God is looking out for us. We tell people who hear Gods that they are mentally ill - well, some are, but not all. To further compound the problem, many beliebers have chosen to worship underground (so that when someone feels the need to call out to a god, they don't know where to turn for guidance), and some have chosen to use other, not so obvious names, for the faith. That makes it difficult to be counted in census, for example, and without a certain number of people professing under the same name in the census, the religion will not obtain official status. Asatruar in Canada are, for example, called asatru, heathens, northern traditional, forn seithr, forn sed and so on, and then there are offshoots, like Norhtern wicca and odinism. With us being so fragmented, even though there are about 10 000 worshippers here alone, we still cannot be an official religion until we can decide on one name. That has to do with intimidation, too. I once had to fill out a form in my kids' school where they said we'd be anonimous and that asked some very personal questions. Then they asked what our religion was. Since I had to put down asatru, and we are the only asatru family in the school, everyone would have known who filled out the questionaire. (OT: I don't do things that I cannot live with, and therefore I have nothing to hide, so frankly, I didn't give a flying shit if they knew who I was, so I did it anyway. A lot of people would not have done so, and it does impact the lives of my children - see "Question for all the AA fans out there".)
As for purposely misrepresenting the faith in the press, it's something you just get used to. No different than Swedish girls always being portryed as stupid blonde sluts with big tits (I know for sure that ain't tru, cuz my tits definitively are NOT big!! ). You just have to teach by example. Sometimes, though, you can work it to your advantage. If Thor and Loki are in some game "running about with big sharp weapons taking the heads off people and other creatures" (you say that like there's something wrong with it... ), even if their armour and weaponry isn't the correct period and all, some kid somewhere is going to wonder "Who is this dude, anyhow?" and look it up. Maybe then he'll end up in our website (www.irminsul.org) and actually learn sopmething, or maybe even here. It's not about converting Christians, it's about abolishing misconceptions. If it's important that you become one of us, your God or Goddess will speak to you anyhow, regardless of whether you search for them or not. When it comes to "most people (like here in the UK) think of Vikings as raping, pillaging big dudes with horned helmets", well, they did those things. Christians burned innocent people at the stake, and moslems fly into tall buildings. It's part of the heritage of each one of those groups, like it or not. But that was only part of what the vikings did, and they did it for a reason. There is a context. All Norse were't vikings, either. Most were farmers, traders, women, children and even thralls.
But the thing with the horns on the helmets, that'sone of those things that I menationed above - don't go there if I'm PMS:ing !
Forums like this one are good because you ask questions that make me have to think. It's important not to be static, but to question what you base your assumptions on. That's part of being asatru, and not, say, moslem.
And thanks for the compliments. Respect is very important, and I respect you back for asking an intelligent question in an intelligent manner./T

 

[Mauler]

Cheers!

That's a great response to my childishly rambling question. I know what it's like to justify how you are as I have dreadlocks and dress in black...some stupid woman at work thought I was a Satanist! I put her straight.

Perhaps I wasn't being too clear with regards to RUNE - Loki is in the game in passing as more of a set-piece in Hel, it's Ragnar/the player that runs about arming himself! He gets some pretty nifty furs too, lol. They got Odin right too and the Allfather seems mighty pleased that Ragnar dispatches many people that would assist in bringing about Ragnarok Is there an exact translation of 'Ragnarok'? I find it intreaguing that the main character is called Ragnar too...anyway...

Y'know I find the beliefs of the Norse to be very compelling. I've always felt a close connection with nature and since dropping Christianity over ten years ago (useless waste of time that was) it's got stronger. I'm mainly an indoor computer/tech dude but I love being outdoors when I get out there and going to places like Wacken and Graspop are a blast! I'm just as at home out in a tent as I am here infront of my PCs so anything that values nature (and everything that has it's place therein) makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of the ON myths can be a bit hard to comprehend what with all the multiple names and funky spellings but it's almost perfect in the way that everything has a role and balances are kept - as an engineer and an observer of many things I get this. I'm definately gonna check out what it is to be Asatru a lot more.

Two more questions if I may?

You seem to be very intuitive when it comes to certain things Tyra so I'd be interested to know what you make of this one. I dunno about you guys over in Sweden/Canada but here in the UK we get a fair few foxes roaming about after dark. Usually they keep to themselves but one night when I was walking home from my old drinking haunt I came across a fox just standing in the middle of the road. It seemed remarkably un-timid for a fox (they usually flee at the first sight of people) but this one just stared at me. From what I know of cats and dogs, most animals hate being stared at so I figured that crouching down and staring at this animal would make it uncomfortable and head for the safety of the bushes...but no, the thing just kept staring at me from the road. Only when I made towards it did the fox move from the road but when I walked away it tailed me (no pun intended ) down the street! Whenever I'd turn around it would stop but it followed me almost all the way home - almost 2 miles - and at one point it even headed me off by running through a park and appearing in front of me which freaked me out a bit! lol What's up with that? Very very unusual IMO. Was it just a curious fox or...? Hmmm.

And WTF! How tall are you lot from Scandinavia?!? I DJed for a band called Detonation when they played over here (they loved my At The Gates shirt ) and no shit, the band AND their crew were all well over 6.5 feet and up. They towered over me and I'm just about 6ft! Are all you guys huge (Johann? LOL) or what??

Again sorry for the rambling questions Tyra One thing that I know all too well is that time can never be replaced. Which is why I really appreciate you not only reading my daft long-ass questioning posts but also wringing awesome concise and long replies

 

[Larsson]

Cheers!
Two more questions if I may?

You seem to be very intuitive when it comes to certain things Tyra so I'd be interested to know what you make of this one. I dunno about you guys over in Sweden/Canada but here in the UK we get a fair few foxes roaming about after dark. Usually they keep to themselves but one night when I was walking home from my old drinking haunt I came across a fox just standing in the middle of the road. It seemed remarkably un-timid for a fox (they usually flee at the first sight of people) but this one just stared at me. From what I know of cats and dogs, most animals hate being stared at so I figured that crouching down and staring at this animal would make it uncomfortable and head for the safety of the bushes...but no, the thing just kept staring at me from the road. Only when I made towards it did the fox move from the road but when I walked away it tailed me (no pun intended ) down the street! Whenever I'd turn around it would stop but it followed me almost all the way home - almost 2 miles - and at one point it even headed me off by running through a park and appearing in front of me which freaked me out a bit! lol What's up with that? Very very unusual IMO. Was it just a curious fox or...? Hmmm.

Now im not Tyra and the question whas not directed at me, but what the fuck are you implying whit that? I tell you though. We have had wolfes getting into villages and stuff lately.

Oh, the fox probably followed you because people commonly feed them. Saw a program about wild animals in London a week ago or so.

And WTF! How tall are you lot from Scandinavia?!? I DJed for a band called Detonation when they played over here (they loved my At The Gates shirt ) and no shit, the band AND their crew were all well over 6.5 feet and up. They towered over me and I'm just about 6ft! Are all you guys huge (Johann? LOL) or what??

average length sweden:

Men about 180 cm (5.91 foot)
Women about 165 cm (5.41 foot)

 

[Tyra]

Hey!
Well, I tend to think Swedish people are just average height, but then, I am one of them, and I suppose when you're brought up with people being a certain way, you just think of it as normal... I have, however, been told by my husband and others, that, yes, there are more tall Swedish people than, say, Canadian. We are, admittedly, generally taller than the Mediteranean "stock", but I really don't know what an average height would be compared to, say a German or a UK one. Probably because I don't worry about it since I can spot a Swede from a mile away anyhow...LOL.

Re that fox... it's just one of those things that make you go "hmmmmm". Have you ever looked into your own heritage and if there is already some connection to a fox? Like a "totem animal" for lack of a better term? Or maybe your very own spirit...has there been anything there before, when you were younger?
Sometimes a fox is just a fox. The question here is your reaction to it. For it to make that kind of impression on you, it just makes me wonder. Sometimes a fox is a fox that can tell that you have a connection with it, that you're friendly. Sometimes a fox is not a fox at all. It's your reaction to it that makes me go "hmmmm". You clearly felt that there was something out of the ordinary going on.
I have a connection with a wolf. Sounds weird for a sane person to say, huh? I know, cuz it don't make no sense to me either, and I am very logically minded. I cannot fit this into any frame of reference, which is one of the things that has strenghtened my faith. Weird things do happen, apparently, even to people who are not purposely searching for an ansewr or whatever. I just know I have a connection with a wolf. That's an easier thing to figure out, since wolves are not that common, and I only see him after blòt. I have tried to find him on purpose, but that really, really goes to Hel in a handbasket (not a good thing and I will not be doing that again...did not enjoy that feeling one bit! I recognize the spirit within him by looking in his eyes. It is the same spirit that I see in Odin's eye, and it clearly is Odin in one of his many shapes. He's larger than other wolves. All I know is that I feel safe, because with him on my side, I dare anyone to try to harm me and mine. It's a very powerful feeling.
I don't know what to tell you, because you describe what you saw and not what you felt. L i s t e n to your g u t, and if all else fails, perform an utsitting!! (If you don't know how, pm me. No blood or gore, free of charge, but occasionally not for the faint of heart - sometimes what you find is not what you thought you'd find.) If it doesn't come to you then, then it was just a really curious fox. /T

 

[Tyra]

Oops! Posted at the same time as Larsson! There you go, about the average height.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

I find myself wanting more when reading Tyras posts

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

Tyra. Do you know anything about the ancient peoples of Germany wearing Mjolnir? It seems that only the Scandinavians wore them

 

[Tyra]

You know, I can only recall Scandinavian finds of Mjöllnir, and some plain ones from the UK... I only remember ever studying those, but no German ones. It might be that I learned about the Scandianvian ones because it's a Scandinavian university, but it might also have to do with the symbol being a different one - for example, in some areas it really is more common to symbolize Odin with a spear than with the "regular" axehead. Both of those options are fairly unlikely, though. I shall have to do some searching, but as of right now, I cannot think of a single thing that indicates that the Germans would have worn them.

Some say that the wearing of Mjöllner was something that was done in response to the Christians wearaing a crucifix. That would explain the problem, in that the Sae worshippers of the same deities were in earlier contact with the Christians than the Norse, and may have been converted by the time the fashion of wearing a hammer came about. As for myself, I really feel that the idea of the amulet wearing thing as a Christian influence is pure bullcrap (I base that on archaeological finds), but for what it's worth, you should know that the idea has been floated.
The Norse had a penchant for silver, and were more voracious in their appetite for it. Surely the Sae must have had symbols of some kind to symboloze Donner, but that doesn't mean they wore them. According to ethnoarchaeology, a lot of other cultures prefer(ed) to express their beliefs or try to gain the protection of their gods and goddesses in ways other than amulets, such as with tattoos or little pouches with magical items in them, or by regularly leaving offerings etc. Tattoos, leather pouches and much of what one would keep in one, as well as many food stuffs are biodegradable things, and not easily found by archaeologists.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

good stuff!

have they found anyone at all wearing Mjolnir before christianity? Like you said, I think they were worn only to combat the cross.
But before christianity I dont really see a reason for wearing something like that. The gods were all they knew, no reason to 'show off' really.

 

[Mauler]

Now im not Tyra and the question whas not directed at me, but what the fuck are you implying whit that? I tell you though. We have had wolfes getting into villages and stuff lately.

Heh, no probs I know it was a fairly immature question but I've read on here something about Tyra associating a big black wolf with Oden so I kinda wondered if any of the ON pantheon had anything to do with foxes...it wasn't a completely random crackpot question

Wolves, man! I don't think we've had wolves in the UK for centuries

 

[Mauler]

Hey!
Well, I tend to think Swedish people are just average height, but then, I am one of them, and I suppose when you're brought up with people being a certain way, you just think of it as normal... I have, however, been told by my husband and others, that, yes, there are more tall Swedish people than, say, Canadian. We are, admittedly, generally taller than the Mediteranean "stock", but I really don't know what an average height would be compared to, say a German or a UK one. Probably because I don't worry about it since I can spot a Swede from a mile away anyhow...LOL.

Re that fox... it's just one of those things that make you go "hmmmmm". Have you ever looked into your own heritage and if there is already some connection to a fox? Like a "totem animal" for lack of a better term? Or maybe your very own spirit...has there been anything there before, when you were younger?
Sometimes a fox is just a fox. The question here is your reaction to it. For it to make that kind of impression on you, it just makes me wonder. Sometimes a fox is a fox that can tell that you have a connection with it, that you're friendly. Sometimes a fox is not a fox at all. It's your reaction to it that makes me go "hmmmm". You clearly felt that there was something out of the ordinary going on.
I have a connection with a wolf. Sounds weird for a sane person to say, huh? I know, cuz it don't make no sense to me either, and I am very logically minded. I cannot fit this into any frame of reference, which is one of the things that has strenghtened my faith. Weird things do happen, apparently, even to people who are not purposely searching for an ansewr or whatever. I just know I have a connection with a wolf. That's an easier thing to figure out, since wolves are not that common, and I only see him after blòt. I have tried to find him on purpose, but that really, really goes to Hel in a handbasket (not a good thing and I will not be doing that again...did not enjoy that feeling one bit! I recognize the spirit within him by looking in his eyes. It is the same spirit that I see in Odin's eye, and it clearly is Odin in one of his many shapes. He's larger than other wolves. All I know is that I feel safe, because with him on my side, I dare anyone to try to harm me and mine. It's a very powerful feeling.
I don't know what to tell you, because you describe what you saw and not what you felt. L i s t e n to your g u t, and if all else fails, perform an utsitting!! (If you don't know how, pm me. No blood or gore, free of charge, but occasionally not for the faint of heart - sometimes what you find is not what you thought you'd find.) If it doesn't come to you then, then it was just a really curious fox. /T

Utsitting? I'll PM you over that...

Ah, see as I said to Larsson I wondered if foxes have any relation to anything in ON myths or gods (like you and your wolf but I guess that's a more personal thing rather than a known habit of Odin?) like it was on of the more mischevious deities messing with me or something. lol I tell you though, it wasn't much fun! At first I was intreagued but the more the dude followed me the wierder it got...especially when I thought I'd left him behind and it then ran out of the park in front of me and not to forget that I called a friend while it was happening and my cellphone ran out of battery mid-talk just before the fox headed me off at the park...horror-film classic. LOL It's an interesting but none too enjoyable experience at the time. Definately something that's not happened before or since but then again animals do seem to take a liking to me quickly. Must be the dreadlocks and smell...:zombie: