Viking mythology and all that goes with it
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Krigloch the Furious
Pants full of poo
Bill S.
Sanity is too overrated
Why would you be afraid to wear one? I've seen a few Asatru wear one in place of a hammer. They don't seem to have any problems.
Krigloch the Furious
Pants full of poo
Hahahahahhaha
that damn commercial always gets stuck in my head!
Larsson
He is risen
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Tyra
Member
The valknot comes from the old picture stones, where Odin is often depicted together with it, or sometimes on its own. It is said to represent the holy threesome in the faith, but has over time become the symbol of Odin. The symbol is supposed to be worn by those who have dedicated themselves to Odin, just like some dedicate themselves to Thor or Freya or any of the other gods in the pantheon. Here are the reasons why someone who is not dedicated to him should not wear it:
First, I'd only wear a valknot if I were truly dedicated to Odin. It does not symbolize the whole faith, like the hammer, but merely denotes that within asatru, you're dedicated to Odin. A slight, but none the less, difference.
Second, those that are dedicated to Odin, just like Seraphim implied,are thought by many (read most) believers to set themselves up to die early and violent deaths. Odin is not only the god of the slain, but also a fickle god who will call his favourite warriors to him on a whim, and preferably while they are still young and in good shape. That's how he wants them for the battle at Ragnarök. That's why they say "Those that the gods live, die young". Now, I suppose if you do not believe in the God himself, then you could wear one and not feel worried.
Third, some extreme right-wing groups have used it, which is why you sometimes get some weird/dirty looks when you wear it. Having said that, it's not like you don't get dirty looks and some really odd questions when you wear a hammer either. I have a Helm of Awe tattoo on my sword-arm, and I get asked an awful lot of questions,but none have been assuming that I am a nazi. I do get asked a lot why I have a snowflake tat, though... I suppose it's how many times per day you feel you want to defend your faith or your ancestry or just plain old defend yourself...
Now, I am an Odinswoman (gasp!), but I still wear the hammer only. That's partially because more people know what it is, but mainly, I know that even though I am close to one deity, I need to respect them all equally. And it's a respect issue. I respect Odin. I am dedicated to him because he is the one that speaks to me, not because I chose some god arbitrarily, or because I think he's the coolest or whatever. He is the one that asked me to dedicate myself to him, no one else did. As a difference to a Christian, I do not fear god, but I do respect him. I think of him in terms of him being my ancestor, and I respect all my ancestors and feel that they ought to be honoured (yes, even the Christian ones - gasp again!). That is the foundation of the faith - you know, kinsmen die and cattle die and all that. In short, a person isn't truly gone until his reputation and memory are gone and we stop talking about him. I do honour to Odin by remembering him and speaking about him. I could choose to honour him by wearing his symbol, but if I do, and I die, even though I am not afraid to die, there's still one less of us here to speak of him.
First, I'd only wear a valknot if I were truly dedicated to Odin. It does not symbolize the whole faith, like the hammer, but merely denotes that within asatru, you're dedicated to Odin. A slight, but none the less, difference.
Second, those that are dedicated to Odin, just like Seraphim implied,are thought by many (read most) believers to set themselves up to die early and violent deaths. Odin is not only the god of the slain, but also a fickle god who will call his favourite warriors to him on a whim, and preferably while they are still young and in good shape. That's how he wants them for the battle at Ragnarök. That's why they say "Those that the gods live, die young". Now, I suppose if you do not believe in the God himself, then you could wear one and not feel worried.
Third, some extreme right-wing groups have used it, which is why you sometimes get some weird/dirty looks when you wear it. Having said that, it's not like you don't get dirty looks and some really odd questions when you wear a hammer either. I have a Helm of Awe tattoo on my sword-arm, and I get asked an awful lot of questions,but none have been assuming that I am a nazi. I do get asked a lot why I have a snowflake tat, though... I suppose it's how many times per day you feel you want to defend your faith or your ancestry or just plain old defend yourself...
Now, I am an Odinswoman (gasp!), but I still wear the hammer only. That's partially because more people know what it is, but mainly, I know that even though I am close to one deity, I need to respect them all equally. And it's a respect issue. I respect Odin. I am dedicated to him because he is the one that speaks to me, not because I chose some god arbitrarily, or because I think he's the coolest or whatever. He is the one that asked me to dedicate myself to him, no one else did. As a difference to a Christian, I do not fear god, but I do respect him. I think of him in terms of him being my ancestor, and I respect all my ancestors and feel that they ought to be honoured (yes, even the Christian ones - gasp again!). That is the foundation of the faith - you know, kinsmen die and cattle die and all that. In short, a person isn't truly gone until his reputation and memory are gone and we stop talking about him. I do honour to Odin by remembering him and speaking about him. I could choose to honour him by wearing his symbol, but if I do, and I die, even though I am not afraid to die, there's still one less of us here to speak of him.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Tyra
Member
Ooouch. Knarfi is going to die, cuz I know this'll be loooong....oh, and political.
To answer your question: Some of them, because I understand the reasons.
The long answer: I do not respect the ones that converted out of greed for example, but the ones who did it to save their families and so on, I do. Some of those people are the same people that kept the asatru faith alive because they converted on the outside but not in the heart or in the home. Preserving your kin and keeping them safe is a typically asatru thing. It is a survival instinct as much as it is a religious act in and of itself - sometimes it is not about having the balls to stand up against something, it's not being able to: if you said "I am asatru" during most of our history, you'd have been put to death. What good does that do your family? Jarl Haakon was tortured and then killed for the faith (supposedly - it was actually more about power, but the two are one and the same, so that's splitting hairs), but not everyone has a family that can handle sustaining such a blow. His did, so he was able to afford it.
Then again, there are asatruar that I do not respect because they were just not good people, and there are Christians that I respect because they were good people. If I had to side with a bad, nasty person who said he was asatru or a good person of another faith who was respectful of me and mine, I'd have to choose the good person - providing it was not during Raganarök. Those that are nasty bad asatruar give the rest of us a bad name, which hurts me and mine, which flies in the face of the faith, so why should I respect them? Why should I respect Olaf Skötkonung and those of his ilk, or converts like Erik Bloodaxe and Harald Bluetooth? They did not treat me or mine with respect, they were not good people, they were greedy assholes regardless of religion, but the religion was the tool they used to inflict injury unto my people. Old Bluetooth wasn't even Swedish - he was a f***ing Dane. He's not my ancestor.
It all goes back to why an asatruar has to be respectful of people in this life - not so they get rewarded in the next, but so that those around you respect you in turn and keep your reputation alive once you're gone. Again, kinsmen die, cattle die and all that. That's where it gets irritating when these assholes burn down the old stavechurches and such in the name of asatru. Bullshit! You did it because you're weak and feeble-minded, which makes you angry and unable to come up with a more powerful way to reap revenge. There are thousands of more powerful ways to make a lasting impression and a true dent. Hate begets hate, and just because "they" treated you with hate doesn't mean that you can't be stronger and better than them and honour those that came before you in constructive ways, even if they are fulelled by hate. Asatruar are supposed to provide hospitality to those that seek it. So, let them park their damn churches where they want, our hargs are sacred wherever they stand. But please don't disrespect me and mine by burning down part of our cultural heritage. Then you have disrespected me and mine, and then you have mande an enemy that knows you better than you know yourself. That's a dangerous enemy to make.
There are also Christians who were born and raised that way that knew of nothing else. I cannot fault them for the gods not speaking to them any more than I can beat myself on the chest because they choose to speak to me. The gods have their own reasons for doing what they do. These folks still fought hard for me and mine and to make our people great. I cannot say that I disrespect a great warrior like Gustav II Adolf just because he was raised a Christian. If it were not for the likes of him, we'd be living like they do in Africa, or maybe like they do in China or whatever. It is the ancestors that have shaped the world in which you grew up. If I were not proud of where I come from and appriciative of who I was as a result, then it wouldn't matter. But I am proud of who I am and where I came from and the things I have been able to pass on to mine, so it does matter to me.
So, yes, I do respect some of those who converted, but not all. It depends on the reasons and how they did it. And yes, I feel an intense hatred towards the likes of King Olaf, not to mention Valdemar Atterdag, but I have to prove that I can be and am better than them. I can control my hatred and use it better. That makes me smarter and more dangerous. That's Norse.
thanx alot for all that information on the valknut. its very very interesting. ill probably end up geting him a hammer for the reason that you gave me hahah, thanx
Krigloch the Furious
Pants full of poo
Tyra
Member
Sorry! Mind you, I did warn you...Hehe. I just feel that one should not throw out answers to deep personal questions that can be misinterpreted in any way, shape or form, especially when it has to do with hatred, and especially when it is done in a forum that represents one of my kin. (Please, don't ever confuse my own personal views with those of Johan's, because I would never propose to speak on his behalf unless he gives me specific permission, and if he did, I would tell you that he had done so.) A good question deserves a good answer, and sometimes they end up long. That's OK, as long as someone gets it.
What's so sweet about Jesus anyhow? What I'd like to know is how come he's so very European looking in all the paintings. I thought he was born to jewish parents in Palestine...
What's so sweet about Jesus anyhow? What I'd like to know is how come he's so very European looking in all the paintings. I thought he was born to jewish parents in Palestine...
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Haha thos Christian Nazis, whatever their called (Christian Identity-something?) claim that he was in fact European (naturally), at least part so. This because his father would have been, not Joseph, but some Romsn legionnaire (Pantera?), and since there were many Germanics in the Roman army... Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The way I understand Jesus is that he was some inspiring hippie with ideas not deemed wanted by the local government. That's correct, isn't it? I mean besides the fact that he was a gay child molester.
The way I understand Jesus is that he was some inspiring hippie with ideas not deemed wanted by the local government. That's correct, isn't it? I mean besides the fact that he was a gay child molester.
Tyra
Member
Really??? I mean about Jesus being European according to some. I'll have to read up on that! I like a good joke as much as the next guy...
You know, that faith makes more sense if you look at it in it's own historical and geographical context. As do most faiths. It's just that Christianity has spread so far away from both, which makes some of the stuff kind of difficult to understand. I once had to (try to) explain the whole "The father, the son and the holy ghost" being-the-same-only-different-thing to a Moslem friend of mine. (Goodness knows why he asked me...guess I look like a nice Christian lady or something.) Anyhow, that was fucking difficult, because away from it's original context, the whole concept sounds really odd.
Anyhow, if you look at Jesus as a historical persona, yeah, then he was "some inspiring hippie with ideas not deemed wanted by the local government". He was very dangerous to their way of life. Guess they were right in fearing his politics, cuz look at how many Roman pantheon worshippers there are even in Rome today.
You know, that faith makes more sense if you look at it in it's own historical and geographical context. As do most faiths. It's just that Christianity has spread so far away from both, which makes some of the stuff kind of difficult to understand. I once had to (try to) explain the whole "The father, the son and the holy ghost" being-the-same-only-different-thing to a Moslem friend of mine. (Goodness knows why he asked me...guess I look like a nice Christian lady or something.) Anyhow, that was fucking difficult, because away from it's original context, the whole concept sounds really odd.
Anyhow, if you look at Jesus as a historical persona, yeah, then he was "some inspiring hippie with ideas not deemed wanted by the local government". He was very dangerous to their way of life. Guess they were right in fearing his politics, cuz look at how many Roman pantheon worshippers there are even in Rome today.
Tyra
Member
Hey, Pagan, speaking of funny Christian ideas, did you know that KDS has lobbied the Swedish government to make breastfeeding illegal? It's childabuse, they say. They also say women get turned on while nursing. Honestly, I've nursed two babies, and I wish it felt good. Then I would have not hated it so bad. But it doesn't feel good. It sucks, in more ways than one. But, apparently, in some people's minds, the female body is still dirty and sinful and falls to the temptations of Satan quite easily. We're supposed to give all the babies Carnation Good Start instead. I wonder if KDS will help pay for all that formula. Speaking of funny ideas.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Haha, well what can you say... My family justr realised that we pay something like 420 € in church taxes every month. I thought that me and my siblings weren't in the church, because none of us are babtized or confirmated. Turns out otherwise though. Well, not anymore. 420 Euros a month fpr a five person family is just downright rude. Perhaps I wouldn't have mind if it was less, but then again, not even the church seems to belive in itself anymore, which makes it hard for me to ever see why I should give my money to them.
