Viking mythology and all that goes with it

Hehe, I wasn't doubting you, Slepnir, you know the lore better then I. Unfortunately, the internet lacks a <joking> tag.... and I lack the ability to stop making bad ones. :)

Oh no, I just thought you were kinda agreeing with me so i wanted to clarify, no prob.

knarfi said:
Dont take me serious or you'll end up in jail or hell.

you know something? I didnt even see the "50,000 names" part, I again thoguht you were inquiring about the exact # of names......see what 2nd shift jobs do to peoples brains after awhile??
 
I'll drink to that, man. I worked 2nd and 3rd shifts for a long ass time. And, dammit, I forgot the question I had :/


Were you going to ask if I am the one that has been embezzling from you??????











You have GOT to tell me where you got the avatar from...
 
Were you going to ask if I am the one that has been embezzling from you??????
You have GOT to tell me where you got the avatar from...

Hehe, I made it from a screenshot I took while watching Metalocalypse on YouTube. I've got that one, Skwisgaar saying "Embezzle is metal!", Toki with his "codpiece" saying, "Screw you all off! My codpiece is the coolest!"... a couple others.

421 is my avatar of choice tho. 4/21 (21/4 to you people with European notation) is my birthday... and he's voiced by King Diamond, who is still cool in my book. :) I also have another one of 421 with the "What I most can't the least would be do not a bad job but always a good." line.

If you want one, just lemme know what ya want, and I'll, uhh, try not to forget about it. My wife already claimed the Toki codpiece one, tho. ;)

And yeah, I'm prolly a good bit older then you Knarfi... but I know I'm not the oldest here, by a long shot. :)
 
Bump


What other cultures/religions influenced the Scandinavian peoples before the viking ages we all know and love?
 
Depends on who you ask - read "political hot potato". Here is my attempt at an unbiased opinion:
According to Dum&#233;zil, the tripartie system, like the one with Thor, Odin and Frey, is typical of all Indo-European cultures. Then you're looking at the viking religion stemming from (and thus being influenced by) cultures from India, followed by such peoples as the Hittites, Kurgans, Greeks, Romans and many others. The best book to read on this would probably be Renfrew's Archaeology and Language (+ apply analytical thinking as you see fit).
Then there is the religion that was in Scandinavia before the arrival of that "new" religion, that I believe melded with, and thus influenced, the later Norse religion, or rather, became a part of it. That would most likely be a goddess centred religion, one that was shared with the cultures running from Malta (see Maltese neolithic temples) and up along the Atlantic coast, including France (Carnac momument) and the British Isles (Stonehenge, Newgrange) for example. It got to about 1/3 of the way up into Sweden (see Tanum petroglyphs) before it met up with the "new" religion. The best books here (for an Anglophone) would probably be Gimbutas (+apply large grains of salt - sorry, I've discuvered that there isn't much out there in English, so Gimbutas is probably your best bet).
So there are two distinct religions rolled into one that shaped the later Iron Age faith, both with their own distinct backgrounds, both with their own current day political following. Quite interesting how that still applies, 7000 yeas later...
 
I think you promised me somthing abot the pre-IE religion. It would be interesting to read/visit a vouple of sites fornl&#228;mningar of this nature, do you have any tips?

Have you heard about the swedish database on the internet for all the fornl&#228;mningar in the entire empire? forgot the name now, but its great - you just pick any place in sweden and you get a list of all of the ones present.

A question: how many mounds have been dug in/ excravated(or however the fuck its spelled)? And how do we protect the ones that haven't from raiders?
 
An interesting parallel between the Viking religion and Hinduism:

The Rig-veda is the oldest of the Hindu Vedas. In it, the concept of a caste system is established.

The oldest of the sagas is the Rigsthula. In it, Heimdall, under the name of "Rig" goes on a journey, and in this journey, he provides the genetics that establishes the 3 classes of peoples: The thrall class or servants, The Karl class or Tradesmen/Farmers, The Jarl class or Warriors/Nobles.

Runesinger
 
I'm curious as to how they figured out that R&#237;g was Heimdall. I like to puzzle things out for myself, but I can't seem to find the pieces to the puzzle. I'm fiarly certain the storytellers didn't just arbitrarily say, "Oh yeah, when we say R&#237;g, we mean Heimdall."
 
I think you promised me somthing abot the pre-IE religion. It would be interesting to read/visit a vouple of sites fornlämningar of this nature, do you have any tips?

Have you heard about the swedish database on the internet for all the fornlämningar in the entire empire? forgot the name now, but its great - you just pick any place in sweden and you get a list of all of the ones present.

A question: how many mounds have been dug in/ excravated(or however the fuck its spelled)? And how do we protect the ones that haven't from raiders?
Oh, damn, Pagan, I'm sorry! I thought I had done that already...
Don't get me started!!
I think you'll have a hard time getting most of the litterature, because most of it is scholarly books that are not library sorts of stuff. One of the best books out there on this, if you can get it, is Thomas B. Larsson's "Materiell Kultur och Religiösa Symboler" from 1997 (Institutionen för arkeologi Umeå universitet). Very nice book for this. Christopher Tilley might have a few books out (I know he's done work relating to this), too, but he's very difficult to understand for a non-Anglophone, and I do not agree with his interpretations myself (but you might!). I've tried to find anything in English, but with no luck, which I find odd, since Stonehenge and Newgrange should have been covered extensively... There may be something in French, because of Carnac, and Portugal was a sort of epi-centre for the religion, seemingly, so you'd think there'd be more litterature. I'm probably not looking in the right places. If I come across something new, I'll let you know. If you're interested, I can recommend some videos you can rent, too. In Swedish...
As far as places to visit are concerned, obvioulsly Tanum (Sweden), because of its sheer size and beauty. It's amazing. Spectacular. And it's a world heritage site. It's a must see. Malta and the temples there are amazing, Newgrange on Ireland is huuuuge, amazing (I think more amazing - and older - than Stonehenge, 9000+ years old C14!). They all show the same things as far as patterns and such, and the layout of the temples and so on are the same, only smaller, the farther north you go.
In regards to how many mounds have been exacvated, I really don't know. Burial customs vary over time, too, so I don't know how many of the X number of graves excavated would be mounds either. A lot of times you're looking at "dösar" of some variety, which are identical in morphology to the larger megalithic monuments in the British Isles and Malta (for example) only in miniature in comparison. The "decore" is generally the same, too, with swirly patterns and such. Then ther are cremations and regular enterments, which are just falt and have no markers above ground. The best place to find out would be Riksantikvarieämbetet (RAÄ). They're in charge of that stuff if anyone is at all is keeping a tally...
The only way to protect stuff is by locating it, reporting it to RAÄ, have them come out and give it official status, then they are in charge from there on. The law in Sweden is very specific regarding what you can and cannot do with "old stuff". It's also easier said than done to loot a grave that's been registered - it takes a fair while to dig things up well enough that they don't loose their value in the process, and even then, you have to find the grave first! Chances are, if you find something sensitive, you'll get more money from SHM or Länsmuseet (or something like that) after the grave's been excavated properly than you'll ever get for a badly fractured piece of unidentified something rather (which is what you get if it's not excavated and documented properly) on eBay (which is not to say it doesn't happen - just to say it's not necessarily cost-effective to bother!) More dangerous is when people know they have a grave or a "stensträng" or fornåker or something and decide to still put a hole in it to drive their car through, or to still plow over it, because they don't have time to wait for us to exacvate on their property - after all, they need the land to farm or live on, and if we're on it, they can't use it until we're done. As far as new developments (roads and buildings going up), on the whole, because the law is so strict on this, most companies work pretty damn hard to avoid sensitive areas - they have to foot the bill for any excavatons if they decide to build over top of anything sensitive, and they avoid that like the plague.
You must remember, though, that just because "we" know something is there, that doesn't mean we're going to excavate it. You excavate only if the good of current society outweighs the diseased person's right to remain buried where he or she is right now. That is, if a town really badly needs a new hospital but there is a grave (or fifty) right where they want to put it, first you'd try your hardest to move the future hospital, and if that really, really isn't possible (as was the case with the parkade that they needed for the "houses of parliament" - statshuset - in Stockholm, where they found a whole town once they started digging the foundation - oops!!), then you excavate. Other than that, you leave people alone where they are buried with care and attention by their loved ones. The days when we excavated just for the hell of it are long gone. At least in Sweden...(unfortunately not in the rest of the world).
Looting is more of a problem in places like Mexico and Egypt, where you're likely to find larger pieces of crafted gold and such. Sometimes what "protecting" those sites entails is for archaeologists to sleep on site with loaded rifles. No joke. It gets very dangerous sometimes. I've had "tourists" come to visit a dig and, as I am sieving, stick their hands into my sieve and say "Oh look, I found a tooth/arrowhead/piece of jewellry! Nice!" and just try to walk off with it, thinking "finders keepers". They didn't figure on my being a berserker, though, and I found it first, so there...
There are a few really good sites. FMIS fornsök is one. RAÄ has a great site, so does SHM.
 
An interesting parallel between the Viking religion and Hinduism:

The Rig-veda is the oldest of the Hindu Vedas. In it, the concept of a caste system is established.

The oldest of the sagas is the Rigsthula. In it, Heimdall, under the name of "Rig" goes on a journey, and in this journey, he provides the genetics that establishes the 3 classes of peoples: The thrall class or servants, The Karl class or Tradesmen/Farmers, The Jarl class or Warriors/Nobles.

Runesinger

Aaaaaah! I was just reading through both of those today, trying to find the connection between the mead and the soma, and the etymology *mddhu to medhu to madhu to mjöd to meodo to melit for my thesis. Both religions, as with most Indo-Europena religions, have a fermented honey drink that is sacred, but do you think I was able to find an actual reference anywhere?? Noooooooooooooooooooooooo. Three hours later, to top things off, R, "someone" wrote a long post about "weird" groups that want to attend the Althing, and one of those groups wanting to attend just to refute the writings of Thorsson and have him formally declared NOT asatru or whatever (like we're some sort of Asatru-All-Mighty Police!!)... The only probelm is that the author was an even bigger nut than the aforementioned author (did you know that was possible, R?!), but of course, I couldn't keep my itchy fingers from replying to the original post, so now I am sure I'll get dumped on again for being anti-you-know-what. They can say that all they want, though, still won't change anything, since I am anti-you-know-what, and am not about to change that anytime soon. Rant over.
 
An interesting parallel between the Viking religion and Hinduism:

The Rig-veda is the oldest of the Hindu Vedas. In it, the concept of a caste system is established.

The oldest of the sagas is the Rigsthula. In it, Heimdall, under the name of "Rig" goes on a journey, and in this journey, he provides the genetics that establishes the 3 classes of peoples: The thrall class or servants, The Karl class or Tradesmen/Farmers, The Jarl class or Warriors/Nobles.

Runesinger

And a last one: Kon Ungr, who knew of runes etc., i.e. the priest caste, the Brahmin.


edit: Maybe that's why I love indian food?