Viking mythology and all that goes with it

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

yes i think there is only a grass covered stone house there remaining. i remember seeing a picture of this from school.. was very interesting though, but i dont know much more.

ill check this out Tyra, im glad you learned in the process hehe

anyway as im setting Hel's castle as in a cave, there is no practical need of columns, although its still very symbolic, and i need to occupy space. so as i said, i draw 2 columns already, flanking the door, but its not directly beside the door, its like between the entrace and the hostseat and the honorseat.. youll see when ill finish the paiting lol
as to set the third pole.. i was saying earlier it would cut the line of sight of the host over the entrace.. so maybe the third pole was right behind the high seat? and the 2 others flanking the seat? if you still have the pictures of those archeological sites, i would very much like to see them please, this is all so very interesting
tossing the poles in the water for disembarking, thats really nice ^^

 

[Tyra]

Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for - when you excavate stuff, you document everything, and then when you're done, you put it all together. What you get when you excavate a house, is something that looks like a drawing of a house with balc spots where the posts once stood. I have stared my eyes off trying to find anything in a Y shape, but I get the feeling that I am looking at digs from a different time period. Longhouses have been built at least since the neolithic, and it could be that the halls that I've now looked at are later, and so the layout has already changed to two posts beside eachother. Then you'd have one on each side of the "highseat". As for where the host sat (long side or short side of the hall, or in the corner) changes over time and has to do with religious practise etc. If you want to see a few postholes on an archaeological chart sort of thing for yourself, and look at those pictures, then go into that site that I recommended to Bates five posts above this one.
What was left in L'Anse aux Meadows was just an outline of a rectangle in the grass. That was what was excavated. The bulding with the grass on the roof is a nice modern reconstruction of the original hall.

 

[Sleipnir]

Hi!
No, Sleipnir, you owe me nothing. I remember exactly who was there when I needed help to stand up straight. The way I see it, I am the one who owes you. And you’d love Runesinger. Wish there were more people like her. My other friend, who also knows R.,was stoked that I got your kindred’s addy, cuz she’s out your way a lot.

Thats what kin do for one another T.................

and feel free to give my contact info to your friend, I am sure we can meet her and hang if she is up for it.

 

[Bates]

Don't you have a thesis to do?

Thanks for the link to the posts, those'd make nifty patterns, too. Not that I'm real good with the artwork, but at least I know what the patterns are supposed to look like

Hopefully I don't overcook any of the pieces this time I ruined one of my first batch, had a pretty neat wolf-headed serpent on it too

 

[Tyra]

Don't you have a thesis to do?

Yes, but I have to come up for air sometimes, and besides, I have to save my work occasionally. I check in with you lot while the computer is crunching... Naw, seriously, I have to take a break sometimes.

Sleipnir: Done deal.

 

[Vikingkid3]

I was listening to ...And the world will cease to be and the lyrics say that Hidhægg will eat the dead, whats Hidhægg? Is that the dragon that eats the roots of Yggdrasil?

 

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

another thing.. i know they are pilling up.. but i promise this is the last thing lol

So you were saying Hela was sending souls to where they belongs in her realm, i think you mentioned something like that Tyra, it looks like the 9 levels of hell IMO thats why im very not certain of that, and sorry for not going to pick up the quote in the previous posts, its late and im going to sleep in a minute. But if its true, then how many places is there? and more importantly, do they have names, these places?

if they have names, what are their ON names, please? ...more plays with runes thank you again

 

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

I was listening to ...And the world will cease to be and the lyrics say that Hidhægg will eat the dead, whats ? Is that the dragon that eats the roots of Yggdrasil?

i tried to google and wikipédia Hidhægg and the first one show a person writing in forums, the second gives no answers. im not a knowing person like Tyra, Runesinger or Bates, but the name of the serpent that lives under Yggdrasil is Nídhögg and i personnaly never heard about him eating the deads, only that hes eating the roots of the World Tree. I might be crazy but its true that i find a bit of closeness between these two names Nídhögg and Hidhægg.. but im no expert.
good night!

 

[Bates]

LOL, don't put me in the same class as Tyra or Runesinger. I've just got a reading problem, and the books are usually handy.
But I think you're right, I'm fairly sure that line is 'Nidhögg eats the dead'. Darklyrics has it listed as Hidhægg, but I'm not sure if that's right, or if Johan used the name from a different dialect that I'm not aware of.

 

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

Well that reading problem you have Bates come in very handy and gives you more knowledge then most of us anyway lol

I have read darklyrics' lyrics of WOOOS and its disguting how many mistakes they made. So i think youre right, its just another mistake they made in their lyrics...

[2 minutes later]
ive just checked DL's lyrics again, and it seems they fixed everything on WOOOS! ive seen no more '...' where they werent understanding what Johann was singing (there had quite a few) and they fixed Hermod's ride to Hel ***thank you***
[1 minute later]
But yea, Hidhægg hadnt changed, but in the little book of Versus the World's cd, it is Nídhögg that is written.

 

[Sleipnir]

i tried to google and wikipédia Hidhægg and the first one show a person writing in forums, the second gives no answers. im not a knowing person like Tyra, Runesinger or Bates, but the name of the serpent that lives under Yggdrasil is Nídhögg and i personnaly never heard about him eating the deads, only that hes eating the roots of the World Tree. I might be crazy but its true that i find a bit of closeness between these two names Nídhögg and Hidhægg.. but im no expert.
good night!

Yes, it is , Nídhögg or Níthhogg.....

Yes he eats the roots of Yggdrasil and as far as him easting corpses, it is true. His name means "tearer of corpses" and in Voluspa stanza 36 it says:

"Waist-deep down there through waters swift
mainsworn men and murderous,
eke those who betrayed a trusted friend's wife;
there gnaws Níthhogg naked corpses,
there the Wolf rends men- wit ye know more, or how?"


It also states in the Prose Edda that:

"But it is worst of all in Hvergelmir.
There Nidhogg bedevils the bodies of the dead"

 

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

thank you Sleipnir
does this mean someone dead can die a second time?

 

[Sleipnir]

thank you Sleipnir
does this mean someone dead can die a second time?

I'm not sure I follow you.

 

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

youre saying Nídhögg eats the corpses of ppl already dead. if he eats something dead, does that kill it again? therefore dying a second time?

or have i simply misunderstood... Nídhögg eats the corpse of betrayers and other bad persons, but are the soul of those people in their corpse still? if not, well Nídhögg eat the shell, killing nothing. if the soul is in the dead body, being eat, he dies a second time?

i know i have strange questions sometimes...

 

[Sleipnir]

youre saying Nídhögg eats the corpses of ppl already dead. if he eats something dead, does that kill it again? therefore dying a second time?

or have i simply misunderstood... Nídhögg eats the corpse of betrayers and other bad persons, but are the soul of those people in their corpse still? if not, well Nídhögg eat the shell, killing nothing. if the soul is in the dead body, being eat, he dies a second time?

i know i have strange questions sometimes...

Ok, gotcha. No, once you are dead you are dead, there is no "dying a second time"...at least while you are there. It is also interesting to note that while Hel is not the same as the christian hell it is been debated...at least by us out here...that while Hel might not be such a bad place, it is the host of Hel that rides along with Surt at Ragnarok. It is one of those things that makes you think..........


As far as him gnawing on the corpses...and Nastrond is reserved for murderers and oath breakers and has venomous serpents hanging from the ceiling dripping their poison down it could be argued that this is their souls punishment, and I do not know how heavily influenced...if at all mind you...by christianity this was/is.

T? RS?? any input?

 

[Bates]

Or it could serve as a warning that even the memories and reputation of the oathbreakers and murderers will be desecrated and eventually destroyed, leaving not even a fond memory to be carried on.

My brain works strangely, yes, I know.

 

[Vikingkid3]

Thanks for the help, when I searched for Hidhægg at dictionary.com Nídhögg came up but i wasn't sure.

 

[Erzebeth.Rouge]

i think like you that Hel is not such a bad place, otherwise everyone that does not die in combat are all kinda doomed in afterlife... but as Tyra was saying, before and after doesnt matter, its the now, this life that matters. the concept of souls being punished is clearly a christian propaganda to get more money, at least it was that with the purgatory. Dante's Divine Comedy didnt helped that belief, but as ive read the Inferno part, its still amusing.

Bates, i think you have a good idea. as i understand more and more how this civilization worked, it makes sense to think that it can be a warning. but isnt the warning near of being executed? and if its executed, it becomes like christian's hell.. no?

Youre answering a part of my previous question Sleipnir, as to what are the names of the places the souls are being sent to by Hela. There is Nastrond, reserved for murderers and oath breakers, you say. What are the other places and their names please?

 

[Sleipnir]

i think like you that Hel is not such a bad place, otherwise everyone that does not die in combat are all kinda doomed in afterlife... but as Tyra was saying, before and after doesnt matter, its the now, this life that matters. the concept of souls being punished is clearly a christian propaganda to get more money, at least it was that with the purgatory. Dante's Divine Comedy didnt helped that belief, but as ive read the Inferno part, its still amusing.

Yes, hel is not as bad as it is made out to be, but one can not deny the fact that according to the lore the host of hel rides against the gods and einherjar at Ragnarok. I know whose side I dont want to b be on when that happens.

Bates, i think you have a good idea. as i understand more and more how this civilization worked, it makes sense to think that it can be a warning. but isnt the warning near of being executed? and if its executed, it becomes like christian's hell.. no?

I would like Bates to maybe elaborate a little more on this and if you want a good indication of how our ancestors lived, just read the sagas, it's all right there.

Youre answering a part of my previous question Sleipnir, as to what are the names of the places the souls are being sent to by Hela.

Well, they get sent to her, not by her and there are lots of places the dead can go.

There is Nastrond, reserved for murderers and oath breakers, you say. What are the other places and their names please?

As far as the dead in general or the dead sent to Hel? The dead (in battle) go to either Valholl, or with Freya to her hall Sessrúmnir which is in Fólkvangar(Field-of-warriors). They could go to the hall of their ancestors, the hall of their patron/matron, they could wind up a lot of places. Those who go to Hel though just go to Niflhel and the worst go to Nastrond. It also is good to note that in the Prose Edda it says that:

"The Third said:
'His greatest achievement, however, is the making of man and giving him a soul which will live and never die, although his body may decay to dust or burn to ashes. All righteous men shall live and be with him where it is called Gimlé or Vingólf(my kindreds name BTW) , but wicked men will go to Hel and thence to Niflhel that is down in the ninth world'

 

[Runesinger]

I think you may have nine places in Hel confused with the nine worlds. There are nine worlds:

Nilfheim, the coldest of the nine worlds
Hel, the place of the lawful dead
Svartalfheim, the land of the dark elves
Jotunheim, the land of the Rim-Thurses
Muspellheim, the land of the Fire-Ettins
Vanaheim, the land of the Vanir
Midgard, the world that we live in.
Ljossalfheim, the land of the Light-Elves, where Freyr rules
Asgard, the home of the Gods

I have a good friend, Kjartan, who is one of the best scholars in Viking theology that I know of. His studies indicate that how you live your life here will say where you end up in the next life.

For instance he was telling me that the monotheistic religions (including Satanism and wicca) are all inspired by Surt the Firelord. His center is around the desert lands of North Africa and the Middle East. Surt promotes monotheism because he is pretty much a dictator. Those that follow the monotheistic religions end up in Muspellheim, the land of fire. This is because they have given their minds and their will over to the rule of another. They will stay in Muspellheim until they learn to think for themselves.

If a person is very sickly in their life, so they could not live a whole life, they might go to Vanaheim for healing and renewal of their soul.

He also believes that your next life is not permanent either. You learn and grow in the nine worlds to what will benefit your soul. He said that the concept of a heaven and hell that are eternal are ideas from Christianity.

There are concepts like that in the Eddas. Brynhilda was a valkyrie, but because she lacked the discipline to do her duty, she was reborn as a mortal. Once again, she was ruled by her passions instead of her mind, and she ended up going to hel.

Helgi Horvathsson had a defined mission for his life, but was unable to complete it. He was born again in Midgard to complete his work.

It is probably not too healthy to become preoccupied with Hel. The land of the dead is not for the living...

Runesinger