Viking mythology and all that goes with it
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Bates
Swamp Yankee
Tyra
Member
Yes, Bates. Think I'm gunna try to take that course once I am done my degree. The uni in Vancouver offers a course in Old Icelandic, too, but it costs money.:Smug: Something else I was thinking about today regarding where people go when they die. There are some rune stones that say "Thor Vinge", which is thought to be an invokation of Thor for the dead one - as in Thor is supposed to take good care of him in the next world. Then today, I came across this section in Hárbarðsljoð, where Odin, dressed in disguise as a ferryman, taunts Thor and says that Odin gets all the rich chieftains, but Thor gets the thralls. So there again is another indication of another place to go to.
Runesinger
Member
Bilskirnir is the name of Thor's hall, and it is supposed to be the largest of all the halls of the Asgard. I guess that means he can accomodate a lot of people. His wife Sif reputedly brews the best beer in Asgard, so they'll probably have a keg or two on tap all the time. The hall lies in Thrudheim, near the border with Jotunheim. I suppose because Thor is the main defense against the Jotnar.
Runesinger
Runesinger
Krigloch the Furious
Pants full of poo
I've always felt that Odin can keep his warriors, If I could go anywhere it would be Bilskirnir.
but I've always wondered this. Ok, so the gods have their own halls, what do those people do during Ragnarok?
but I've always wondered this. Ok, so the gods have their own halls, what do those people do during Ragnarok?
Finktron
Progeny of Fenrir
http://www.viking.ucla.edu/Scientific_American/Egils_Bones.htm
Just a neat article about Egil and the possibility of a certain genetic defect he carred. Jesse Byock, who authored this, I think rather recently released a translation of the Prose Eddda which I just picked up. It is rather good as far as keeping to using key or important ON words and bracketing the translations in English. In addition, the flow of the bits of verse included here and there seems less forced into an English-sense scheme than the other three translations I have. I still need to read all of them and get more memorized before I can say for sure, but so far this has been my favorite read.
Knarfi
Yaba-daba-doo!
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Bates
Swamp Yankee
Tyra
Member
Pagan, I don't remember the name or anything. I know clips from the movie have been used extensively in documnentaries about vikings and Egil since, one of which ran on SVT a long time age. It's a really old movie to start with - it was already old when I was five, which is roughly in the Stone Age. I'd peg it for a movie from the 50's. It had Swedish actors in it, I know that, cuz I understood the dialogue. There was a similar movie made about Gustav Vasa, when he escaped and all that, with the Danes sticking their swords into the wagon thingy he was hiding in, which made a huge impression on me as a kid. Exciting stuff this Swedish history bussiness, especially when you're five... Wouldn't surprise me if it was the same director, anyhow. Maybe Johan knows. I'll ask next time I talk to him, OK?
Tyra
Member
@ E.R.:
Hah! I knew I had seen this in one of the (by now rather massive) piles of papers I've accumulated for my own thesis. This is from a really well written doctoral thesis that I am referencing to in my own thesis. It's just short, but it basically explains why I could not find anything on the three pillars - it may have been an Anglo-Saxon thing, rather than a Norse thing. Anyhow, now I can maybe figure it out easier... Here's the quote:
"Brian Hope-Taylor has suggested that the presumed pre-Christian cult building at Yeavering
(Northumberland) was converted for Christian use by Paulinus. The evidence
in support of this theory is however meagre. The most substantial argument
seems to be that three pillars inside the building, which presumably had some
function in the pre-Christian cult, appear to have been removed at some point
in time.The wooden posts at Yeavering, which appear to have had ritual functions
must also be discussed here. During the early phase at this site, the central
monolith of a pre-historic stone-circle was removed and replaced by a series
of pillars ‘that serve for the attachment of radial series of inhumation graves’.
When the presumed cult building (D2) was erected, burials were focused on
its external enclosure, which housed free-standing posts. Another pillar was
erected at one of the corners of the building, and inside there were also three
free-standing pillars. Finally, a pillar was raised as focal point for the timber
154
‘theatre’ (building E). Brian Hope-Taylor believed that these pillars were
decorated by carvings of some kind.82"
Hah! I knew I had seen this in one of the (by now rather massive) piles of papers I've accumulated for my own thesis. This is from a really well written doctoral thesis that I am referencing to in my own thesis. It's just short, but it basically explains why I could not find anything on the three pillars - it may have been an Anglo-Saxon thing, rather than a Norse thing. Anyhow, now I can maybe figure it out easier... Here's the quote:
"Brian Hope-Taylor has suggested that the presumed pre-Christian cult building at Yeavering
(Northumberland) was converted for Christian use by Paulinus. The evidence
in support of this theory is however meagre. The most substantial argument
seems to be that three pillars inside the building, which presumably had some
function in the pre-Christian cult, appear to have been removed at some point
in time.The wooden posts at Yeavering, which appear to have had ritual functions
must also be discussed here. During the early phase at this site, the central
monolith of a pre-historic stone-circle was removed and replaced by a series
of pillars ‘that serve for the attachment of radial series of inhumation graves’.
When the presumed cult building (D2) was erected, burials were focused on
its external enclosure, which housed free-standing posts. Another pillar was
erected at one of the corners of the building, and inside there were also three
free-standing pillars. Finally, a pillar was raised as focal point for the timber
154
‘theatre’ (building E). Brian Hope-Taylor believed that these pillars were
decorated by carvings of some kind.82"
Bates
Swamp Yankee
Tyra
Member
If I wanted to know about Tyr, I'd ask Sleipnir on this board. I believe he has a tattoo of the One Handed God. Tyr is interesting, as he seems to be a remnant of the religion that existed in the land before asatru arrived. Many people believe that he was the Sky God of that religion, which is why his "duties" overlap so much with Odin's. Both are, for example, gods of war. Scandinavian Mythology by H R Ellis Davidson has a bit on this. It's an old book, but it's still worth while reading.
Bates
Swamp Yankee
Cool... mmm, more books...I need a bigger house just for all the books I want, never mind all the leatherworking crap I've been accumulating.
I find Tyr to be really intriguing, his name is used everywhere, but it's not that easy to find much information beyond the same couple of paragraphs. That, and I've got this nifty raw amber necklace thingy that I think was supposed to be a Mjollnir, but really looks like a Tiwaz rune. One of those odd gifts from the in-laws... but I guess I shouldn't complain about in-laws who give me nifty stuff like that. Even if that woman could talk a stone to death.... and constantly forgets we're in a different time zone and calls really early in the morning... it's late, I've been inhaling dye fumes for a while, I will shut the hell up now.
I find Tyr to be really intriguing, his name is used everywhere, but it's not that easy to find much information beyond the same couple of paragraphs. That, and I've got this nifty raw amber necklace thingy that I think was supposed to be a Mjollnir, but really looks like a Tiwaz rune. One of those odd gifts from the in-laws... but I guess I shouldn't complain about in-laws who give me nifty stuff like that. Even if that woman could talk a stone to death.... and constantly forgets we're in a different time zone and calls really early in the morning... it's late, I've been inhaling dye fumes for a while, I will shut the hell up now.
Tyra
Member
OK, but you know that "tyr" also means just "god" right? Like in Hängatyr, the Hanging God, as in Oden? Makes it hard when you study place names...
Finktron
Progeny of Fenrir
Though Tyr may well mean god, and does so in a way in those situations, couldn't any other suffix be used there? In every copy of the edda I have all of the translators have associated the -tyr part with the kenning/substitution areas of skaldcraft. By tacking on the tyr suffix, you attribute things to Odhinn by identifying him with another god. I could not really give you an example, given that the other examples in each book really only extend into adding that specific form, but it seems to stress that other forms could be used.
Tyra
Member
I'm not 100% sure I understand how you mean. The way I think of it actually goes back to my previous-to-last post, in that Tyr was the Sky God in the older religion, and that he then was so much associated with being the biggest God that his name became synonymous with the word for God - or viser versa, I suppose. The opposite of this would then be the feamle Goddess, who according to Tacitus et al would have been Nerthus.
Erzebeth.Rouge
Member
what is Yeavering? and do you have any representation of what is describe? because, i must admit, im really lost reading this, im a visual person : / and im not sure i understand quite everything. what is the link between burials sites and pillars? or.. was the norse hall not only a gathering place but also a '' cult building'' ? (even if this is in Northumberland, but then wasnt norse civilization installed there at some point in time?) I wont have to erase the carvings on the pillars i drawed already, woot!! thank you Tyra ^^
Tyra
Member
Yeavering is an archaeological site where they've excavated a longhouse. The burials were outside the building, and the connection is made between the graves and the hall because there are pillars in the hall that seem to serve no purpose, but there are also such pillars outside by the graves. That, coupled with the fact that the pillars in the Norse longhouses did not serve a purpose and were removed after conversion to Christianity, would imply that the pillars served a religious purpose. This is, as I said, also the same time that the high seat changes it's position in the room. The pillars and the hearth had names that were the same as some religious aspects. For example the word for hearth and the word for altar is one and the same. And, you hit the nail on the head in your post - all of this, along with some archaeological finds of things such as guldgubbar and seething holes in the hall, as well as the building itself being a specific shape that is connected with the previous religion (something that carried on for 1000's of years but stopped cold turkey with the conversion) are indicative of the hall being connected with the religion. My thesis paper is on the political aspects of the commensal feast in Iron Age Scandinavia, and it covers much of this stuff, but in my paper it is mostly about how the drinking feast is actually just as religiously coloured as the blot, and that the religion cannot be separated from the rest of the culture. Everything is equally holy. There is not a day(Sunday), time(mass), place(church) or person(priest, bishop, pastor) that is more holy than others. The host of the feast performs profane political tasks, but also sacral tasks in a building that is not only the bedroom, kitchen and home, but also the "church". It all ties together. And no, you don't have to erase your nice pillars, because they were there.
