Viking mythology and all that goes with it
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Sleipnir
Thorsmadr
vagner
the greek viking
you all know berseker the people take their name after the latin world <<with out clothes>>. the most known warriors the ones that cose fear to everybody the ones that kill their one army in the hell of battle! i have one question why they were like this?
did they take any different trainig ?
did they live different from other vikings?
or is is a herbal that make them go crazy?
did they take any different trainig ?
did they live different from other vikings?
or is is a herbal that make them go crazy?
Tyra
Member
It's not a latin word, it's an Old Norse word, but anyhow...
Nobody knows why they went beserk for sure. There are many theories, most of which don't work in practicality. Ingesting Flyagarig is one of them (although it causes halluciantions, you have to take enough of it to make you uke to cause them, and puking and fighting do not go together very well and is also not supported by the lore). There are two things that I have found in my own research:
1. You can alter your own mental state by altering your breathing pattern. You can cause tunnelvision and such, and make yourself furious just by, for example, drumming or chanting and changing your breathing accordingly. This puts you in a berserker mindframe if you want it to.
2. If you go into the search engine on this page and look, there is a previous discussion on this. In there, I could actually remember the name of a genetically inherited disease that at one time was prevalent in the northern European population, that could easily have caused berserker rage. To go berserk was not an every day thing, not everybody did it, and those who did, were not generally accepted into society, but rather, were outcasts. They had problems managing their moods in everyday life, too, and so were thought of as crazy and dangerous. That shows that it was not something that could have been a desirable trait 99% of the time, and that it was different. That is, not everybody could do it even if they would have wanted to, which implies that it may have been part of a disease pattern. Egil Skallagrimsson would be a person who would typically diplay all the features of someone suffering from this particular disease, and as you probably know, he was one of the more famous bersekers of the era.
Nobody knows why they went beserk for sure. There are many theories, most of which don't work in practicality. Ingesting Flyagarig is one of them (although it causes halluciantions, you have to take enough of it to make you uke to cause them, and puking and fighting do not go together very well and is also not supported by the lore). There are two things that I have found in my own research:
1. You can alter your own mental state by altering your breathing pattern. You can cause tunnelvision and such, and make yourself furious just by, for example, drumming or chanting and changing your breathing accordingly. This puts you in a berserker mindframe if you want it to.
2. If you go into the search engine on this page and look, there is a previous discussion on this. In there, I could actually remember the name of a genetically inherited disease that at one time was prevalent in the northern European population, that could easily have caused berserker rage. To go berserk was not an every day thing, not everybody did it, and those who did, were not generally accepted into society, but rather, were outcasts. They had problems managing their moods in everyday life, too, and so were thought of as crazy and dangerous. That shows that it was not something that could have been a desirable trait 99% of the time, and that it was different. That is, not everybody could do it even if they would have wanted to, which implies that it may have been part of a disease pattern. Egil Skallagrimsson would be a person who would typically diplay all the features of someone suffering from this particular disease, and as you probably know, he was one of the more famous bersekers of the era.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Belgar
The Wallonian Redneck.
TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
I think Vagner might be your Greek cousin ... come on guys, we need people to save Europe. :Smug:
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Thor_Arise
Worship Amon Amarth
Ikki
Member
Vagner: here it is a very comprehensive source of information about berserkers, which extends which Tyra has told you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker
Tyra
Member
Shit, I wish I could explain it in words! It's much easier to explain by doing...TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
It's to do with turning yourself inwards and focusing on yourself. Kind of like how, you know, meditation is supposed to calm you down? Well, it's like that, exactly, only in reverse. Some people use a deep voice chant technique, very similar to that what the tibetan monks do, if you've ever heard them. It actually vibrates your spine, which brings on hallucinations all in and of itself. Listening to such chanting will do the same things. Some people use drums, too, becasue hearing a steady beat helps you focus away the world, and it, too serves to vibrate the spine. The things you see are the same as the things depicted on Irish and Gutnish picture stones - swirls and "swishy" patterns. The faster the drums go, the faster your heartbeat and breathing goes. The faster they go, the angrier you feel, until you have no fucking feelings other than focused fury.
For me, because I am asatru, I use a short-cut and invoke Odin. DON NOT ask how that works, because I cannot tell you. Some say devine intervention, my husband says power of suggestion. Either way, it makes me feel invincible, highly focused on the fight and it makes me tunnelvisioned, sort of. You don't really see the people watching, kind of. Anyhow, as you can clearly tell from all the kind of and sort of in this post, I suck at explaining this...
Either way, my opinion is that it is more likely a disease thing combines with the other. I think real berserkers were physically sick or they'd ahve been better able to controll it. These guys couldn't, which is why they were shunned at times other than in battle. But some, like Erik Bloodaxe, used other techniques, such as drumming (his wife was famous for being able to perform such rituals), on rare occasions. Even the kind of fury that you can achieve with this sort of breathing pattern changes and so on can be outright frightening. It's not funny, and I don't think it would have been used purposely too many times.
Tyra
Member
Here's what I said in the old thread:
"Yeah, well, haven't tried Flyagaric (sp?), but know some who have. You start puking as soon as you get any sort of mental reaction. Not good in battle to be vomiting continuously, I don't think. Pretty much been disproven. Change your breathing pattern for a bit, call on Odin and have someone get right in your face (like many do before playing a team sport), bang on your shield and see what happens. ThatI have tried, and it works well to accomplish fury like none you've ever seen. You litterally see red, and you become acutely aware of all sounds and smells and how things feel on your skin, too. Berserker rage is a different entity from shaman initiation, though.
The archaeologist in me would like to tell you this:
There have been finds made at iron age grave sites that have written evidence that those Norsemen who fought there had gone berserk during the battle. These human remains show a genetic disease of the bones, that in current medicine is associated with people being "overly tall" and the bones getting overly thinck. The bones just don't grow like they are supposed to, but rather rapidly. The skullbone typically gets so thick that it eventually squeezes the brain. This causes continuous pain, and the afflicted tend to get extremely angry in .5 seconds. If you look at old accounts of those who were berserkers, like Egil Skallgrimson, the berserkers are often described as having overly large heads, and as having ugly faces, to the point of deformity (which could be a result of said disease, too), and of course, the famous tall Norseman still lives in stories. The disease is speciffically common in people of Nordic descent...some may have just plain old been genetically predisposed to a speciffic kind of rage as a disease symptom."
"Yeah, well, haven't tried Flyagaric (sp?), but know some who have. You start puking as soon as you get any sort of mental reaction. Not good in battle to be vomiting continuously, I don't think. Pretty much been disproven. Change your breathing pattern for a bit, call on Odin and have someone get right in your face (like many do before playing a team sport), bang on your shield and see what happens. ThatI have tried, and it works well to accomplish fury like none you've ever seen. You litterally see red, and you become acutely aware of all sounds and smells and how things feel on your skin, too. Berserker rage is a different entity from shaman initiation, though.
The archaeologist in me would like to tell you this:
There have been finds made at iron age grave sites that have written evidence that those Norsemen who fought there had gone berserk during the battle. These human remains show a genetic disease of the bones, that in current medicine is associated with people being "overly tall" and the bones getting overly thinck. The bones just don't grow like they are supposed to, but rather rapidly. The skullbone typically gets so thick that it eventually squeezes the brain. This causes continuous pain, and the afflicted tend to get extremely angry in .5 seconds. If you look at old accounts of those who were berserkers, like Egil Skallgrimson, the berserkers are often described as having overly large heads, and as having ugly faces, to the point of deformity (which could be a result of said disease, too), and of course, the famous tall Norseman still lives in stories. The disease is speciffically common in people of Nordic descent...some may have just plain old been genetically predisposed to a speciffic kind of rage as a disease symptom."
Tyra
Member
Yeah, it's called Paget's disease. There is an interseting article here:
http://www.viking.ucla.edu/Scientific_American/Egils_Bones.htm
called "Egil's Bones" in reference to Egil Skallagrimsson. It may give you some information about what I am on about. I got most of my info from dig reports, all of which I no longer remember the names of...sorry! The above article is a good start anyhow, cuz it gives some of the names of some of the digs. The way I recall it, I had to find out who the archaeologist in charge of the dig was at a particular dig where I knew such bones had been found (a UK site), then do a search under articles penned by him and his wife. Unfortuantely I can neither remamber the site nor the two people involved. It was interesting, though, as it was a Christian church that had been taken by the heathens. The Christian townsfolk then laid siege to to church, and while the heathens were in living in the church, some of their people died and were therefor buried in a Christian churchyard, along with the Christians, only facing the wrong direction, according to heathen custom. That's a very quick and dirty version of events the way I reacll them, loosely. Anyhow, some of those bodies were riddled with Paget's disease.
http://www.viking.ucla.edu/Scientific_American/Egils_Bones.htm
called "Egil's Bones" in reference to Egil Skallagrimsson. It may give you some information about what I am on about. I got most of my info from dig reports, all of which I no longer remember the names of...sorry! The above article is a good start anyhow, cuz it gives some of the names of some of the digs. The way I recall it, I had to find out who the archaeologist in charge of the dig was at a particular dig where I knew such bones had been found (a UK site), then do a search under articles penned by him and his wife. Unfortuantely I can neither remamber the site nor the two people involved. It was interesting, though, as it was a Christian church that had been taken by the heathens. The Christian townsfolk then laid siege to to church, and while the heathens were in living in the church, some of their people died and were therefor buried in a Christian churchyard, along with the Christians, only facing the wrong direction, according to heathen custom. That's a very quick and dirty version of events the way I reacll them, loosely. Anyhow, some of those bodies were riddled with Paget's disease.
vagner
the greek viking
vagner
the greek viking
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Thing is, whenever I'm in a fight, Odin goes out the window and then I don't really know what happens next. But of course by then rage has already consumed you. That's the problem with the practical use this sort of rage thpough, as generally one dosn't have time to prepare for a fight the way people marching to battle would.
edit: question answered in essay on Paget's disease.
edit: question answered in essay on Paget's disease.
skinnywhiteboy
Friend Of The Suncross
hate me if you must, but i wanted to bump this thread for some of the new people that drift in. there is too much good stuff here to let it fade into oblivion...
/B
/B
Tyra
Member
I was thinking that that berserker thread should fall under "and all that goes with it" in this thread...
