what Obama has in store for service members wounded in battle

[rms]

l like my plasma tv and my 85 mph boat. But, l want a boat that goes 100. I would rather spend my $ on that than giving free healthcare to some crackhead. I made good decisions with my life to have what I've earned. That crackhead fucked up his. I don't want invasive government to fuck up mine.

very selfish way of thinking

 

[Dead Winter]

very selfish way of thinking

Yes, it is. It's that kind of thinking that will ultimately be the demise of the US. People are getting dumber, more violent, and lazier all because of this type of thinking.

 

[freakchylde]

Yes, it is. It's that kind of thinking that will ultimately be the demise of the US. People are getting dumber, more violent, and lazier all because of this type of thinking.

No, it's not. It's thinking like that that has kept us going for 230 years. The whole point of our 'greatness' has been in one's ability to rise through the ranks by your own hard work, and not have the gov't interfering with your ability to do that. (which, by the way, people are getting dumber and lazier because our educational standards are lower and no one holds them to a standard anymore).

 

[Dead Winter]

Misinformed you obviously are. There is no government run plan. The single payer option was taken out. There will be no low cost plan. There is no choice. Some may...MAY...qualify for Medicaid if their income is low enough ($14,404 for individuals and $29,326 for a family of 4). Other than that long shot, you won't have insurance if you can't afford it and you will be fined regardless.

The fact that you haven't done the research on this means you're BSing it. Which pretty much negates anything you have to say about it.





Of course it's fine with you, you no longer pay taxes here.

l like my plasma tv and my 85 mph boat. But, l want a boat that goes 100. I would rather spend my $ on that than giving free healthcare to some crackhead. I made good decisions with my life to have what I've earned. That crackhead fucked up his. I don't want invasive government to fuck up mine.

....everything else.....trying to save a little space.

Page 217 Subtitle B - Public Health Insurance Option.

ESTABLISHMENT.—For years beginning with Y1,
21 the Secretary of Health and Human Services (in this sub22
title referred to as the ‘‘Secretary’&#8217 shall provide for the
23 offering of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan
24 (in this division referred to as the ‘‘public health insurance
25 option’&#8217 that ensures choice, competition, and stability of
affordable, high quality coverage throughout the United
2 States in accordance with this subtitle. In designing the
3 option, the Secretary’s primary responsibility is to create
4 a low-cost plan without compromising quality or access to
5 care.

Just want to be sure I'm reading this part correctly because this stuff is pretty heavy reading. But from what I understand, it says it right there in black and white: PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. I'll let you decide.

So you've made good decisions in your life and now you're going to have to pay higher taxes for the benefit of millions of people. What a travesty! I've made good decisions all my life, served my country for 9 years, and not everything in my life is peachy either. I'm overall happy with my life but there are things that I wish had turned out differently. That's just life, man. So you have to give back to the country that has enabled you to lead a happy life...I see no problem with that. There is a price that comes with everything and whining about how you've earned this and that just by making good decisions in your life doesn't cut it. You've taken and taken your whole life, but what have you given? It's that selfish attitude that is ruining this country, not terrorism, wars, politicians, or health care reform.

If it makes you feel better, just look at it as a down payment for the real sacrifices our military has made over the past decade so you can enjoy your plasma screen and 85 mph boat.

Now I'm going to start reading the health care bill...2k pages...ugh.

 

[Diamond45]

People who actually WANT government run health care have obviously never worked FOR the government!

 

[Dead Winter]

No, it's not. It's thinking like that that has kept us going for 230 years. The whole point of our 'greatness' has been in one's ability to rise through the ranks by your own hard work, and not have the gov't interfering with your ability to do that. (which, by the way, people are getting dumber and lazier because our educational standards are lower and no one holds them to a standard anymore).

Selfish and egocentric thinking is most definitely NOT what has kept the US going for the relatively short period of time it has existed. The US is a country of immigrants, a country who has single-handedly changed every nation on this planet either through cooperation, the stamping out of tyranny, the willingness to UNSELFISHLY provide aid to other countries in dire need of it, etc. The stupid thing in all of this is that we're so unselfish to everyone BUT ourselves. We shit on each other every day. We're the fattest and quickly becoming the dumbest nation on earth due to our reluctance to help our fellow American. We'll go halfway around the world to get shot up in a bogus war, but holy shit, don't raise my taxes to help my fellow Americans! We are a walking contradiction.

 

[Dead Winter]

People who actually WANT government run health care have obviously never worked FOR the government!

Question: what kind of health care is provided to federal agencies? I can only speak for the military, but I don't know if they have different policies in regards to other federal agencies.

 

[freakchylde]

Selfish and egocentric thinking is most definitely NOT what has kept the US going for the relatively short period of time it has existed. The US is a country of immigrants, a country who has single-handedly changed every nation on this planet either through cooperation, the stamping out of tyranny, the willingness to UNSELFISHLY provide aid to other countries in dire need of it, etc. The stupid thing in all of this is that we're so unselfish to everyone BUT ourselves. We shit on each other every day. We're the fattest and quickly becoming the dumbest nation on earth due to our reluctance to help our fellow American. We'll go halfway around the world to get shot up in a bogus war, but holy shit, don't raise my taxes to help my fellow Americans! We are a walking contradiction.

Yeah, the fact that we're all individuals and if left to our own money, we'll do what we want with it. Ever take a look at charity? As a country, we give more freely with our own money to charity. Not a case of "the gov't tells us we have to, so we let them do it and don't give any more than that." We already give tons of money to help our fellow Americans, and it's failing! Medicare is almost bankrupt, Social Security is almost bankrupt, and we're expected to give more to proven money pits? I'm sorry. If I actually had the money to do what I want with my life, and have extra left over, sure, I'd help out my fellow American. But hey look, another tax I have to pay for, which cuts into those wonderful, miniscule profits that might otherwise go to programs that work, instead of disappearing into a governmental black hole - which will be even further cut into, as my current insurance plan is "not approved by the gov't". Sorry, but no, I don't agree with that, and I don't agree with sending my money to that. If congress really wants to help out folks, why don't they start with their own money? But oh yeah, I'm one of those 'wealthy' small business owners. Yeah, whatever. My taxes are already complicated enough that I have to pay someone to take care of them, and my current business profit barely pays what the gov't classifies as a 'livable wage', but hey. Yeah, go ahead and cut more out of that, so someone can have their cable and plasma tv, along with their food stamps. Yay for glorified Medicare!!!!!

 

[J-Man]

Question: what kind of health care is provided to federal agencies? I can only speak for the military, but I don't know if they have different policies in regards to other federal agencies.

Any person working for or in any of the federal agencies, when they hire on, are giving a choice of many different Healthcare plans to choose from. Isn't that right Paul. And I think the most popular used to be one called "Mailhandlers" i could be wrong, but i do remember some DoD civilians i worked with saying that was what they had and it was great and not expensive.

 

[Dead Winter]

Yeah, the fact that we're all individuals and if left to our own money, we'll do what we want with it. Ever take a look at charity? As a country, we give more freely with our own money to charity. Not a case of "the gov't tells us we have to, so we let them do it and don't give any more than that." We already give tons of money to help our fellow Americans, and it's failing! Medicare is almost bankrupt, Social Security is almost bankrupt, and we're expected to give more to proven money pits? I'm sorry. If I actually had the money to do what I want with my life, and have extra left over, sure, I'd help out my fellow American. But hey look, another tax I have to pay for, which cuts into those wonderful, miniscule profits that might otherwise go to programs that work, instead of disappearing into a governmental black hole - which will be even further cut into, as my current insurance plan is "not approved by the gov't". Sorry, but no, I don't agree with that, and I don't agree with sending my money to that. If congress really wants to help out folks, why don't they start with their own money? But oh yeah, I'm one of those 'wealthy' small business owners. Yeah, whatever. My taxes are already complicated enough that I have to pay someone to take care of them, and my current business profit barely pays what the gov't classifies as a 'livable wage', but hey. Yeah, go ahead and cut more out of that, so someone can have their cable and plasma tv, along with their food stamps. Yay for glorified Medicare!!!!!

Dude, taxes in the US are nothing to complain about. You make all valid points and I understand where you're coming from, but you really have no idea how much better it is to be a small business owner in the US rather than most other places. I'm not diminishing your troubles, I'm just trying to show you some perspective. Even with all that bullshit you have to put up with, you're still better off there than most other places for small business.

 

[Dead Winter]

Any person working for or in any of the federal agencies, when they hire on, are giving a choice of many different Healthcare plans to choose from. Isn't that right Paul. And I think the most popular used to be one called "Mailhandlers" i could be wrong, but i do remember some DoD civilians i worked with saying that was what they had and it was great and not expensive.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I mean, I've always been wary of military doctors, but from my experience, government health plans were fantastic. If they weren't then droves of people wouldn't be trying to work in the federal sector. I asked the question because I'm not sure if they differ between agencies.

 

[freakchylde]

Dude, taxes in the US are nothing to complain about. You make all valid points and I understand where you're coming from, but you really have no idea how much better it is to be a small business owner in the US rather than most other places. I'm not diminishing your troubles, I'm just trying to show you some perspective. Even with all that bullshit you have to put up with, you're still better off there than most other places for small business.

You're assuming that I don't know that, contrary fact, considering how often I travel to Europe. Not to mention, that I'm hoping my business expands here well enough to expand to Europe and have researched it ahead of time to set everything up from the get-go to do so down to having a road map. And the fact that I'm now considering scrapping the US branch and going straight to France now, in the event our latest "monumental achievement" bankrupts me here.

 

[Dead Winter]

Well good luck to you my friend! But you have to admit, the taxes and the whole tax process in the US is a sight more friendly than in other places around the world. Sure, you get much less benefits with the taxes you pay in the US, but it's much more difficult to start up a small business in Europe if you don't have plenty of capital. Wouldn't you agree?

Heh, if you start up something in my neck of the woods, look me up! BTW, what kind of small business do you run?

 

[Dead Winter]

I think all that could be debated has been debated. Now we'll just have to wait and see. I hope for all our sakes that this plan works...I don't plan on moving back to the US anytime soon but that doesn't mean I never will.

Good luck everyone!

 

[J-Man]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I mean, I've always been wary of military doctors, but from my experience, government health plans were fantastic. If they weren't then droves of people wouldn't be trying to work in the federal sector. I asked the question because I'm not sure if they differ between agencies.

If I am not mistaken I believe all agencies, other than the Military, and Coast Guard, are offered the same choices.

What i see in all the post is that we all agree that the US Healthcare system is good, it is just the cost we all have to endure. Whether we are Conservative or Liberal, or Independent( I use those terms instead of Rep. and Dem, because there are liberal and conservative on both sides), we all agree something has to be done.

As a senior citizen(as defined by AARP) and approaching Medicare/Medicad age, i am very worried. But i do have a fall-back I am retired Military.

I have seen and experienced many forms of Healthcare plans in my life, and to this day I have to say that the TRICARE system is the best.
Now, a little background on Tricare - First there are three levels for retirees(as opposed to one level for active duty). Tricare Prime - You have to pay for this $485 a year for a family, Tricare Extra - No cost, Tricare Standard - No Cost. The difference in these is the level of coverage. We use Tricare Standard, plus we purchace a Tricare supplement($1000 a year) and we basically have no out of pocket medical expenses each year.

And we are not rationed on what type of treament we receive, or where we can go for treatment, in other words there is no Out-Of Network costs., Plus Tricare has negotiated flat rate fees with all of its providers nationwide, and they have to accept the negotiated payment.

I love this plan, 1000 times more than the United Healthcare plan i had when i was part of corporate America. I paid over $8000 a year and my company paid close to $20,000 a year for me to have this coverage, and they could deny any claim they saw fit. I have never had a claim denied with Tricare.

Maybe Tricare is the way to go for everyone, or a plan that is similar, just my $.02 worth.

 

[Dead Winter]

Tricare is the best health insurance plan I've ever come across. It's just that good.

 

[Force10]

I'm just glad that I now don't have to worry (as much) about my son being able to have health insurance when he goes out on his own. He's had enough health issues during his first 9 years that I could have seen him being denied coverage.

It's a shame that this bill became a political battle. It would be nice to see politicians work together once in awhile, just for the hell of it maybe.

I read an article that implied that the Republicans made passing the bill a hassle purely to show that "the government is broken" so that come election time, they can say that the Democrats didn't "change" government, which is something they've vowed to do, thus looking good come election time.

 

[Dead Winter]

I wouldn't put anything past politicians on either side of the aisle, but especially the new Republican Party.

 

[Up&Away]

Page 217 Subtitle B - Public Health Insurance Option.

ESTABLISHMENT.—For years beginning with Y1,
21 the Secretary of Health and Human Services (in this sub22
title referred to as the ‘‘Secretary’&#8217 shall provide for the
23 offering of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan
24 (in this division referred to as the ‘‘public health insurance
25 option’&#8217 that ensures choice, competition, and stability of
affordable, high quality coverage throughout the United
2 States in accordance with this subtitle. In designing the
3 option, the Secretary’s primary responsibility is to create
4 a low-cost plan without compromising quality or access to
5 care.

Just want to be sure I'm reading this part correctly because this stuff is pretty heavy reading. But from what I understand, it says it right there in black and white: PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. I'll let you decide.

Looks like l've been schooled. After looking all into this, l missed that.

So, Obama lies again. He said the single payer option plan had been removed. Yet, there it is...just named something else. Should have known they would sneak it back in. :Smug:

So you've made good decisions in your life and now you're going to have to pay higher taxes for the benefit of millions of people.

Fuck the millions of people who fucked up there lives. It's not my fault they made fucked up decisions like doing meth, having umpteen babies out of wedlock and no means to support them, etc. I did all the right things and they did all the wrong things, yet l have to support their bad decisions and habits? HELL NO!There's already programs they can get involved in to get their shit together that my taxes pay for. But, most decline them. Still making fucked up life choices.

So you have to give back to the country

No, l'll be giving to the fuck ups that can't get their shit together. I've been giving to the country ever since l began working.

You've taken and taken your whole life, but what have you given?

I have EARNED what I have. I pay for services l use that the country provides through taxes. I haven't taken shit!

If it makes you feel better, just look at it as a down payment for the real sacrifices our military has made over the past decade so you can enjoy your plasma screen and 85 mph boat.

STFU, The healthcare bill has nothing to do with the military. I already pay taxes to maintain the miltary and have been for much more than a decade.
See above.

I read an article that implied that the Republicans made passing the bill a hassle purely to show that "the government is broken" so that come election time, they can say that the Democrats didn't "change" government, which is something they've vowed to do, thus looking good come election time.

The Republicans were shut out of the process of writing the bill. It was done behind closed doors by the Democraps.

 

[nailz]

The Republicans were shut out of the process of writing the bill. It was done behind closed doors by the Democraps.

Everything they tried to contribute, as far as I remember, were goals to aid in the health insurance companies already insane profits.. Still, I am disgusted by your general lack of wanting to give people the assistance they need.

Fuck the millions of people who fucked up there lives. It's not my fault they made fucked up decisions like doing meth, having umpteen babies out of wedlock and no means to support them, etc. I did all the right things and they did all the wrong things, yet l have to support their bad decisions and habits? HELL NO!There's already programs they can get involved in to get their shit together that my taxes pay for. But, most decline them. Still making fucked up life choices.

I could bore you about how my father works for the post office, and my mother has an Auto Immune Deficiency Disease (No, not AIDS. More like Lupus or Leukemia-ish) that keeps her on more than a handful of prescriptions for controlling the disease, and was even recently given morphine for pain, has had 2 hips, 2 knees, and a shoulder replaced, has rheumatoid arthritis, well, everywhere, and has a back so battered it's a miracle she can walk. Her medical bills, we can say, are exorbitant. Lucky for my parents, they have health 'care'. Oh, wait, they have a $2500 per year deductible (always met within 2 months) and a 80/20 plan after that. So they still need to come up with 20% of the cost of any medical bills. It bankrupted them. But you know, fuck people who can't pay their shit, they're obviously life-long fuckups.