what Obama has in store for service members wounded in battle

[Dead Winter]

So, Obama lies again. He said the single payer option plan had been removed. Yet, there it is...just named something else. Should have known they would sneak it back in.

So it was bad before when there wasn't a public option and it's now bad that there is? Why don't you just own up to the fact that you're a Republican who hates Democrats even when they do something right?

To reply to the rest of your post would just be a pissing contest. Say hello to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity for me.

 

[Diamond45]

Oh, have fun with your "free" health care. Cuz if you don't have health care, you'll be paying $695 a year. What a crock!

http://hr.cch.com/news/payroll/032310a.asp

Citizens and legal residents are required to have “qualifying health coverage.” Those without coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased-in according to the following schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014, 2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016. After 2016, the penalty will be increased annually by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions will be granted for those for whom the lowest cost plan option exceeds 8% of an individual’s income, and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009 the threshold for taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples).

 

[Dead Winter]

We've been over this one before. Frankly, if you CHOOSE to not have health care, you SHOULD be fined by the government. It's not like they're saying, "Get cable tv or you'll have to pay a fine!" Now that we know there is a public option, there should be no excuse to be without health care.

Here's a news flash: if you don't have health insurance and you accidentally hurt someone in your family or friends and it's determined to be your fault, YOU ARE FUCKED. Hurting yourself doesn't matter; that's your problem. You can kill yourself for all anyone cares, but if you maim someone else and it's your fault and you don't have health insurance, you're in for a world of hurt. Would you rather pay for health insurance or would you rather pay $20,000 for Timmy's broken leg? It's irresponsible to not have health insurance if you are able to afford it without causing dire consequences to your quality of life, which, by the way, is the entire reason people want universal health care. They can't afford the roof over their heads and good health coverage simultaneously, which in 2010 is the real crock of shit. The most powerful nation in the history of the world couldn't provide health care for its citizens. That's the travesty of it.

Thankfully, American citizens will finally have a choice instead of being strong armed into or out of policies that benefit only the company.

I know it sounds off-putting, but think about it for a second. Complaining about the fact that we have to buy health insurance is like complaining that we have to go to school. It should be a given. We're so paranoid about the government that it's a knee-jerk reaction. The fact is, the best benefits around are government benefits for government workers. Tricare is the best damn insurance deal you'll ever get. Shit, they're almost paying YOU to be on one of their policies...and it's a government-run health care program for federal employees. It's so good that Italy is #2 in the world in terms of medical health coverage and I'd trade that any day to be able to get back on Tricare. I've found more often than not that the people who are running around setting themselves on fire over the government health care program have never had any experience working with government programs before. Don't knock it till you try it.

 

[Diamond45]

Why should I pay for health care when my taxes should be paying for my health care? Oh, because they want to tax you even more? What a crock!

 

[Dead Winter]

I see what you're saying and I'm right there with you. The simple fact of the matter is that, believe it or not, taxes are too LOW in the US to support such a large nation's health care needs. European health care is probably the best in the world, depending on which country you're in, but there's a reason for it: less people, more taxes. I pay 10% more taxes here than in the US and I am able to go to any hospital or clinic to have any ailment treated, and they are all private doctors and hospitals; they don't work for the state. It's similar to what the US is trying to do. However, I will pay a deductible...usually around 50 euros for the procedure. My father in law had stomach cancer and they replaced his entire stomach for free. It depends on your income. University also costs about 1200 euros per year due to these taxes.

This is probably going to piss some people off, but Americans don't pay enough taxes to have health care like we do here...which is why they're trying to build a model similar to it but not copying it. What you have now is uniquely American...there is no other system in the world like it, not in the UK, Canada, other parts of Europe, nowhere. Hell, people are losing their friggin' minds over having to pay just a bit more in taxes for this plan. Imagine what would happen if they said, "Ok, now every American has to pay 43% taxes so we can pay for this health care plan."

People would burn down Washington.

 

[Corsair]

I think the real question is whether not not we can actually depend on the US govt' to handle anything correctly. If the past 10 years have shown me anything, it's that the answer to the previous question is "no." I'm not against social health care in theory, but I seriously, seriously doubt our govt's ability or willingness to handle it competently even if they were able to allocate the funds necessary to do so. Hell, I even doubt that the motive behind the recent bill is to "help the people". Call me paranoid, and maybe I did watch too much X-files back in the day, but I don't trust my leadership, plain and simple.

 

[Dead Winter]

And those would be realistic and well-deserved fears. But let me ask you something first: were you this wary of the government before the Bush administration? Of course the past ten years have been embarrassing and humiliating, but look who was behind the steering wheel during those years (or rather, ASLEEP at the wheel). I'd be pretty gun shy as well.

 

[Diamond45]

I think the real question is whether not not we can actually depend on the US govt' to handle anything correctly.

Like I said before, people who want this new law obviously have never worked for the government. I've seen the inner workings as a 15 year worker for Uncle Sam and it's a wonder how anything gets done at all. So many stupid regulations prevent us from doing our job. And that's just for starters.

 

[Dead Winter]

Hehe, government bureaucracy IS a factor. It's gotta be said.

 

[freakchylde]

We've been over this one before. Frankly, if you CHOOSE to not have health care, you SHOULD be fined by the government. It's not like they're saying, "Get cable tv or you'll have to pay a fine!" Now that we know there is a public option, there should be no excuse to be without health care.

Here's a news flash: if you don't have health insurance and you accidentally hurt someone in your family or friends and it's determined to be your fault, YOU ARE FUCKED. Hurting yourself doesn't matter; that's your problem. You can kill yourself for all anyone cares, but if you maim someone else and it's your fault and you don't have health insurance, you're in for a world of hurt. Would you rather pay for health insurance or would you rather pay $20,000 for Timmy's broken leg?

Not sure where you're getting this, but health insurance isn't like car insurance, where you have a collision policy. If someone hurts me, their insurance doesn't pay me, unless they have liability insurance (which is not in a standard policy and why you have to sign release forms for various extra curricular activities). It's also why there is the civil court, where you can sue for damages brought on by negligence. Your insurance isn't going to cover a damned thing. FYI.

 

[nailz]

I get health care, don't have to put up with health insurance, and also I go to College basically for free LOL EUROPE RULES.

I hate you so hard. Out of Jealousy.

 

[Pellaz]

Any person working for or in any of the federal agencies, when they hire on, are giving a choice of many different Healthcare plans to choose from. Isn't that right Paul. And I think the most popular used to be one called "Mailhandlers" i could be wrong, but i do remember some DoD civilians i worked with saying that was what they had and it was great and not expensive.

Yep, except that with Mail Handlers', you had to "join the union" as an adjunct, nonvoting member in order to qualify. Same with the APWU plan (American Postal Workers Union). Great benefits, relatively low costs, but you had to factor in some sort of union dues.

John, the reason why the insurance policies offered to federal employees and Service members are so good is because Competition Is Encouraged Between Them. We'd get a comparison brochure so we could compare the HMO plans, fee-for-service plans, etc., and it would show the exact premium cost, what's covered, deductibles, co-pays, etc.

The Democratic health 'reform' plan does nothing to encourage competition, whereas the GOP's H.R. 3400 did.

Another example of competition reducing medical costs: eyeglases, eye exams and contact lenses. You see ads all the time, encouraging comparison shopping, and you can get a decent pair of eyeglasses plus an eye exam for around $100.

Well good luck to you my friend! But you have to admit, the taxes and the whole tax process in the US is a sight more friendly than in other places around the world. Sure, you get much less benefits with the taxes you pay in the US, but it's much more difficult to start up a small business in Europe if you don't have plenty of capital. Wouldn't you agree?

Uh, so you're saying that lower taxes encourage business start-ups, higher employment and the general health of the economy?

Golly.

Everything they tried to contribute, as far as I remember, were goals to aid in the health insurance companies already insane profits..

Abject horseshit. The average profit margin for all health insurers is a paltry 2.2%. Your average grocery-store chain makes more. Hell, your average business of any kind likely makes more. Health insurers charge a lot, and I won't defend their selective coverage practices, but the money is not lining their pockets, either.

 

[nailz]

Abject horseshit. The average profit margin for all health insurers is a paltry 2.2%.*

Non-profit source required.

 

[Dead Winter]

Not sure where you're getting this, but health insurance isn't like car insurance, where you have a collision policy. If someone hurts me, their insurance doesn't pay me, unless they have liability insurance (which is not in a standard policy and why you have to sign release forms for various extra curricular activities). It's also why there is the civil court, where you can sue for damages brought on by negligence. Your insurance isn't going to cover a damned thing. FYI.

Of course it doesn't work like car insurance...what I'm saying is that SOMEONE has to pay the medical bills, and it's going to be your insurance company. Let's say you're playing football with your kid in the back yard, he falls and breaks his hand/nose/arm/collarbone/whatever. Not having health insurance is irresponsible because you'd be neglecting your family. That's the point I'm trying to make. I guess the other example was kinda shitty LOL.

 

[freakchylde]

Of course it doesn't work like car insurance...what I'm saying is that SOMEONE has to pay the medical bills, and it's going to be your insurance company. Let's say you're playing football with your kid in the back yard, he falls and breaks his hand/nose/arm/collarbone/whatever. Not having health insurance is irresponsible because you'd be neglecting your family. That's the point I'm trying to make. I guess the other example was kinda shitty LOL.

No, not taking your kid to the emergency room would be neglecting your family. Not offering up what you feasibly can, and then asking for a payment plan at the financial counter would be irresponsible (even though public hospitals do have a fund for this stuff).

I get what you're trying to say, but this was a contributing factor to why our healthcare costs are so bloody high. Free trips to the ER, because setting aside $75 for a care clinic visit was just too much for folks. Not to mention the visits by those with insurance, to the Dr. for every bloody sneeze or cough. THAT is just as irresponsible.

As for the ER issues, I have my own problem there, as my boyfriend created a unique experience for me, that allowed me to see what bullshit actually exists there - and we were fully willing to pay, and he got the reimbursement check to pay them (which we will be handing over when he next visits).

 

[Dead Winter]

Uh, so you're saying that lower taxes encourage business start-ups, higher employment and the general health of the economy?

Golly.

Yes they do, at least business start-ups. It's a trade-off; do you want low taxes so you can make more money or do you want a great social system?

People ask me all the time whether it's better to live in the US or Europe, and in all honesty it depends on you. If you like the convenience, relatively low bureaucracy, and predictability of living in the US, then the US is for you. Europe offers lots of great opportunities as well, but they come with a price: High bureaucracy, higher taxes, and fewer conveniences. However, the social benefits here are fantastic. You have to decide what's right for you.

In my opinion, the American system of capitalism is going to have to have a makeover. It was built on the foundation of work = better living. The more you worked, the better you could build your life. Friends, the American dream is dead. There aren't enough jobs to go around anymore to sustain this system of economics. With the technological advances we have today, jobs are going to be cut more and more; we are going to have to change the way we do business and the way we live our lives. This means everyone. In order to maintain a good quality of life, changes will have to be made because nothing is anymore how it was 20 years ago. It's an evolution, and people who refuse to change and hang on to the past will be cast aside. Everyone's looking at the past and not the future, and I'm not talking 10 years down the line. I'm talking 50 years down the line, where will this country be? If we continue doing what the Republicans want, we'll become a big, fat, bloated, greedy corporation. I see nothing wrong with this new plan and I think it's the way to go. It's innovative and desperately needed. It will cost money but right now you've got no choice. You can either live in the past or you can embrace the future.

 

[Dead Winter]

No, not taking your kid to the emergency room would be neglecting your family. Not offering up what you feasibly can, and then asking for a payment plan at the financial counter would be irresponsible (even though public hospitals do have a fund for this stuff).

I get what you're trying to say, but this was a contributing factor to why our healthcare costs are so bloody high. Free trips to the ER, because setting aside $75 for a care clinic visit was just too much for folks. Not to mention the visits by those with insurance, to the Dr. for every bloody sneeze or cough. THAT is just as irresponsible.

As for the ER issues, I have my own problem there, as my boyfriend created a unique experience for me, that allowed me to see what bullshit actually exists there - and we were fully willing to pay, and he got the reimbursement check to pay them (which we will be handing over when he next visits).

Ok, good point. But that's just emergency issues. What if your kid or someone in your family comes down with a serious disease? How are you going to pay for it?

The bottom line is that not having health insurance is irresponsible.

 

[Dead Winter]

I'm completely addicted to this band these days. Saw him and Danny Cavanagh recently. I think some of you may enjoy it.

 

[freakchylde]

Speaking of the USPS, my aunt died of cancer 2 years ago. That wonderful gov't insurance plan.....yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. My Cattle Baron of an uncle paid her hospital bills, they didn't.

As to answer Dead Winter's statement on not carrying insurance, well....not a guarantee. As long as folks like Nailz, who don't want to see insurance companies have huge profits, they'll never have the cash flow to pay out anyway, so it's a moot point. People need to be more responsible and set aside the money for health issues. If cancer runs in your family, get cancer insurance, that stuff is cheap (my professional organization provides a plan for around $7/mth). Be proactive, don't sit around and wait for someone else to save you. The only thing I'd be kosher with the gov't doing, is closing the gap between being too poor to get private insurance and too rich to get gov't insurance (Medicaid). As for 'public' insurance...State issue, end of story, not a Federal one. Hospital billing, State issue. BTW, look up Grady Hospital, Atlanta, GA. They're having a fun time of funding all the non-paying public that they see, when the money isn't there, the money isn't there.

On the job issue...we raise managers. Bottom level jobs, that are necessary in this country are constantly being looked down upon. We educate a generation of managers and executives, lots of desk jobs, because those are the 'ideal' jobs. The American Dream hasn't been forgotten, it's not dead at all. Ingenuity was the whole purpose for the creation of our system. If there was a need for something, the system provided the opportunity for someone who could meet that need, to meet that need and profit from it. That is still alive, hence how the medical field is changing. Some Dr.'s who are established and not burdened by their loans anymore, are able to set up clinics that don't accept insurance, operate on shoe-string budgets and provide at-cost or 'choose your own price' care. They are able to survive and probably will be the clinics that will survive what we're going through now, because people will go to them. It's not our system that needs to change, it's the way we operate that needs to change.

 

[Dead Winter]

Good post. I do think, however, that merely "surviving" shouldn't be one's goal; you shouldn't have to plan your entire life around worrying if you can pay for health insurance. That, in a nutshell, is basically all I'm trying to say.